Michelin Camper Tyres

After the watching the video I may well consider changing to cross climate for my car's main tyres when the time comes to replace them.
 
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In a perfect world cars for the UK market would come with all seasons as standard. However they don't give the very best economy/emissions, so could be a marketing disadvantage if that would put the car into a higher tax bracket when now tested under "real world" methods.

A previous car, Golf, came with "eco" tyres, Michelin, which were pretty bad, optimised for low rolling resistance, though they lasted a very long time, couldn't wait to change them, and frankly I saw no difference in economy with the replacements. Do they still make "eco" tyres, or was that just marketing ?

For my GF, who does drive a lot in some extreme conditions, not just one or two days of snow, a week or more, starting powdery, getting hard packed, then icy patches developing with thaw-freeze, maybe another dump of snow on top of that, then slush, cold roads wet and muddy or contaminated by farm tractors and their livestock's excrement, infrequently if ever gritted, her choice is clear. Super grippy ultra low profile on big rims in Summer, but they can also aquaplane badly when the roads are covered in surface water.

As soon as it starts to become cold and wet, on go the full winter ones. Two sets of wheels, fortunately she has the room to store them in her garage, not an option for everyone.

Abroad, they are set up for that, e.g. flat dwellers pay for storage arranged by their dealers. We're not set up for that here.

Intermediates would not suit her in Summer, it is a high performance car, but certainly would be for many.

I'll be doing my homework carefully when it's time to replace those on the camper, and the next ones will certainly carry the snowflake symbol. Meanwhile my M+S have been a huge improvement on even just wet grass, never mind muddy sites and roads, and adequate in snow, though I've had to very cautious at times in hilly, not even mountainous, areas, and needed the chains once.
 
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barge1914 said:
We are taking delivery of a new van. It comes with 5 Michelin Camper Tyres 225, 75, 16” which are marked M+S for mud and snow, however this does not comply with the 3PMS certification required for certain alpine countries. New the camper tyres of this size cost around £165 each. Because of our winter wanderings I would prefer to change them for Michelin all-season CrossClimate Tyres. The dealer can’t or won’t supply with different tyres and I can’t afford to chuck them away.

So the question is does anybody want a set of Michelin Camper Tyres at reduced price, and want to make me a reasonable offer? They will have just delivery miles on them. If you are interested send me a PM.
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are you located
 
CrossClimate + is a perfectly good tyre on a performance car, plenty of W and Y rated options within the range.
The only place where a top quality summer performance tyre is going to have any advantage, is on a track, in August, in a drought.
 
Markd said:
After the watching the video I may well consider changing to cross climate for my car's main tyres when the time comes to replace them.
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I found the video interesting too.

I've actually, in the background, been sorting out replacements for my elderly Father's car, which needs them changing anyway, He has recently bought a country cottage in a remote rural location that does see bad weather for long periods. And the nearest hospital is 40 miles away, and even mobile coverage is not great around there.

This thread has been very useful and I've learned a lot from it.

So he will be having Cross Climates fitted in a couple of weeks time, he can afford them.

Now here is what ATS have to say about them, again, my emphasis.


"Only the Michelin CrossClimate tyre offers the advantage of summer tyres in wet braking, dry braking and longevity, plus the advantage of winter tyres in traction and braking when driving in occasional snowy conditions."

Make of that what you will.
 
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mark61 said:
CrossClimate + is a perfectly good tyre on a performance car, plenty of W and Y rated options within the range.
The only place where a top quality summer performance tyre is going to have any advantage, is on a track, in August, in a drought.
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Well I beg to differ. It depends on your personal standards. "Perfectly good" may be good enough for you and I'm sure you are happy with yours. Since we never exceed the speed limits ahem, except where allowed, speed ratings are not vitally important,

Edit: except in places such as Germany where you may max. out your car for sustained periods. Then it matters.

the +versions just give higher options AFAIK. What next, a ++, then a +++ maybe. Or then the next greatest thing. At the moment these seem to be at the top of the game, but other manufacturers do make similar things also but do not choose to promote/advertise them expensively in the same way.

So we will stick with the two sets of wheels policy, thank you, and enjoy the advantages of both.

Not a "one tyre does everything" compromise.

And no, the the Summer tyres aren't used on the track in August, but for making progress enjoyably and securely on roads, are extremely good in suitable conditions for which they were designed, and give confidence and security, just as the Winter ones do.

Not something with tread blocks squirming around, many sipes and whatever, but to put maximum rubber on the road and carve precisely to driver input and likewise give precise feedback..

Anyway this has very little relevance to camper tyre choice, interesting though it may be, which is I think a totally different set of compromises.

Edit: just to be clear, yes some sort of all around all season tyre is an excellent idea for most UK people with ordinary cars or SUVS. or campers. Much better than the things usually put on as standard.

But not what I want for something that weights less than 1.3 tonnes and can put out 275 Hp. Horses for courses, one size does not fit all. I'll perhaps change my mind when say Ferraris, Porsches etc. come with all season tyres fitted as standard.
 
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I too would not be inclined to run cross climate tyres all year on a W or Y rated performance car that I used at all enthusiastically on the public highway.
Even on my basic diesel estate I can feel the drop off in handling performance on my winter tyres when the roads are warmer and drier. But for the motoring I do in it I think cross climate all year might work.

The motorhome is a completely different kettle of fish and as we never go near alpine snow or much winter driving I think I'll stick with standard tyres which with Michelin CP are biased to the colder-wetter end of the spectrum anyway.
 
Sharpie said:
Not necessarily correct.

If your tyres were manufactured before 2018 (marked on the side) and are only M+S, as are mine, on both axles (and I do carry snow chains as well), they are still allowed. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are much use use in true winter conditions, they could just be summer tyres with a chunky tread. I think that mine are a bit better than that, they have many tiny little sipes that you won't see on basic summer tyres, but I doubt that the rubber is a proper winter compound. Certainly the full-on Winter tyres that we have on my partners car feel completely different (astonishingly good) in sub zero conditions. But they are not some compromise all-season, run all year round thing, I don't expect that they would fall to bits in summer, but that's absolutely not what they were designed for, they are optimised for Winter and perform quite superbly.

I've had to put on the chains just once, fortunately I'd practiced beforehand and did it early, in anticipation of forthcoming problems. If I'd waited until getting stuck, which I'm sure would have happened further up the road, it would have been a nightmare, even with the ex army entrenching tool and tub of salty grit that I also carry. Those usually live in the boot of the car but are transferred to the van when I take it out.

According to:

See https://www.eurocampings.co.uk/blog/listing/new-regulations-for-winter-tyres-germany/

Specifically.

"Transitional regulation
Does this mean the tyres you bought before 2018 were a waste of money? Thankfully, no. A transitional regulation will be in force until 30 September 2024 and winter or all-season tyres with only an M + S code can still be used, provided they were manufactured before 1 January 2018. You may be required to prove that the tyres were actually manufactured and purchased before that date. If you already have the Alpine symbol on your tyres, you’ll be fine, no matter what year they were purchased or manufactured.

The production date of the tyre can be checked using the DOT code shown on the tyre. The four numerals of the code show the production date. For example, the numerals 2416 mean that the tyre was manufactured in the 24th week of 2016. It is mandatory for all winter tyres or all-season tyres manufactured after 1 January 2018 to have an Alpine symbol. Make sure you check the production date and the symbol when buying new tyres."

Also:

"Change as of 1 July
On 1 July 2020, another rule will be added. In winter conditions, commercial vehicles and buses weighing more than 3500 kg – which includes motorhomes – must be equipped with winter tyres on both the drive axles and the steering axle. Until 1 July 2020, this is only mandatory on the drive axles. So if you need new tyres for your motorhome, you might as well add winter tyres on the steering axle, otherwise you’ll just have to get those next year.

From 1 July 2020, motorhomes must have winter tyres on both the drive axle and the steering axle

Fines and liability
If your tyres do not meet the new requirements during a control, there will be a €60 fine. If you are inconveniencing other road users this will be increased to €80. Moreover, if you are involved in an accident, even if it was not your fault, you may be held jointly liable. In other words, failure to use winter tyres when you should have done means you could be asked to pay damages. So make sure your tyres are right for the weather. Of course, with good 4-season tyres you won’t have to worry about anything all year!

Winter equipment
To comply with all the regulations in winter conditions, your car should be fully equipped for the winter. German law specifies that your car must be equipped for current weather conditions. In addition to the correct tyres, your car must have sufficient screen washer (containing antifreeze) in winter and properly functioning windscreen wipers.

In addition, it is also mandatory to use snow chains on some (mountain) roads, so make sure you carry a set in your car. Finally, an emergency triangle, high-visibility vests and a first aid kit are of course mandatory. If you drive a vehicle combination (for example a car with a caravan) then it is also mandatory to have two wheel chocks in the car. A portable yellow flashing light is also recommended, but is not mandatory for vehicles without a German license plate"
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Yes, I read all that. But...I did say new van with new tyres. So no getout for us. But academic if I can’t sell them.
 
barge1914 said:
Yes, I read all that. But...I did say new van with new tyres. So no getout for us. But academic if I can’t sell them.
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"All that" was trying to help somebody else in a similar spot, who should still be legal if tyres made prior to 2018. Was trying to be helpful.

If nobody here bites, maybe try Ebay. And adjust your expectations downwards in accordance with what they are actually sold for, not the headline price. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm actually trying to be helpful. But delivering four or five van tyres elsewhere will cost, they will have to pay to have them fitted, and that should also be reflected in the price.

Personally I would just use them, and take a chance on the remote possibility of a 60 Euro fine whilst you are there, if stopped for a check, and not obsess too much. Unless you just do not want them on your van ever. Surely they are not so bad as that ?
 
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I should be clear I don’t expect the new price or anywhere near, just someone to make a reasonable offer that’s mutually acceptable. Whereupon I can decide whether it’s worth going ahead with the change.
 
Interesting, digging about I found out that the Pegasos are all built on the 3650kg Fiat base vehicle with tyres and suspension designed to match (which for four people I would think they would need to be). They are just dowmplated by the converter to 3500 kg for the UK market, so the tyres should have a relatively easy life.
 
Sharpie said:
So pump them up to max when laid up for a long period, and let them down again before setting off. Would be my thinking. And don't suffer a teeth rattling ride and possibly shaking bits of the interior to bits.

After a bit of running around even if they've gone a bit out of round I think that would correct itself soon enough, I'd be surprised if it was permanent.
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Found to my dismay last year this doesn't work. Good info in the articles written - like your thinking, similar to my way of working.
 
A lot of good stuff about motorhome specific tyres on here.
My take years ago was you bought these tyres as they had a stiffer side wall to try to eliminate body roll on motorhomes due to being built on a narrow chassis.
Along came alko, then ford and fiat followed with wide motorhome specific chassis.
Tyre manufacturers dont want to tell you the overpriced motorhome tyres are no longer needed and that you just need the correct rated tyre .......are they.
 
Just changed all six on our behemoth and followed the advice of a well trusted HGV workshop I use for servicing. Wound up with four Avon AV12 on the rear axles and two Falken Van01 on the front. A three year old Agilis is now on the spare. Gone for the higher load rating (116) all round and wet grip rating on the front. The van does seem well set up on these, so we'll see how it goes.

Cheers

H
 
Markd said:
I don't know whether motorhomes do need specific tyres but I do believe that those sold as such are different to standard tyres.
Maybe the sidewalls are stiffer and are better able to cope with being parked up for ling periods?
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Why do you think that stiffer sidewalls would be better for parking over prolonged periods? Seems more likely to me that stiff sidewalls would be less willing to spring back into shape afterwards.
I'm pretty sure that there are three things that are different about camper tyres:
1. They have thicker sidewalls to survive being kerbed
2. They are more heavily made to allow for overloading.
3. They are much more profitable.
Unfortunately, it also means that they can't dissipate heat as well, so need to be run at bone-jarringly high pressures, which also gives less grip and shorter life.
I think they're a con, but some people think they are the best thing since sliced bread.
There again, I don't reckon much to sliced bread either.
 
Tyres distort for various reasons not just weight and the length of time stood stationary, the compounds also have an influence. I have seen truck tyres on stock vehicles i.e no bodies and no weight where they have distorted where they have been in contact with the ground and it looked like like the rubber had just flowed away from the pressure face, this had happened because of high ambient temperatures and being stood in the sunshine so being black they absorbed a lot of the suns’ energy.
 
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