Wildcamping in Scotland-An existential threat

[Val54]

Believe it or not my "exactly" in post 126 was meant to convey agreement with your statement, we've only had this tangental discussion because you chose to interpret Andrew's post 112 as meaning you couldn't or shouldn't respond. Don't be so picky

 

[Fisherman]

Believe it or not my "exactly" in post 126 was meant to convey agreement with your statement, we've only had this tangental discussion because you chose to interpret Andrew's post 112 as meaning you couldn't or shouldn't respond. Don't be so picky

Val can we Please get back on topic.
Pretty please this is an important thread.

 

[Val54]

But I want the last word ............

 

[Fisherman]

I would hate to think I would not be allowed to visit Scotland by motorhome, defiantly the best way to see the country.
The economy would certainly suffer, as would our mental state.

Picket, You will always be able to visit my country in a motorhome.
If we ever ban motorhomes then what next.
Its simply a non starter.
Scotland is and will probably always be the best place in the UK to park up.
And hopefully things may even get better in coming years.

So get yersel up here man.

 

[runnach]

It was perfectly clear my response wasi to Caledonia’s comment , I also never mentioned the intimation of freeloading ,,,but justified my remark with stressing the tables and chairs element from the whitby thread and seen it myself on west cliff. Since time began there is always an element that think we freeload.

One or two of the responses seemed bizarre after that and a couple have been edited it matters not. There is an element out there whether it be lack of education,simple prejudice or jealousy that will always have a downer on us and believe we should use sites....

 

[Picket]

Picket, You will always be able to visit my country in a motorhome.
If we ever ban motorhomes then what next.
Its simply a non starter.
Scotland is and will probably always be the best place in the UK to park up.
And hopefully things may even get better in coming years.

So get yersel up here man.

Thank you for the invite, I'll be there as soon as I can. We were supposed to get married at Kirkcudbright in April. Just waiting for the new date.

 

[Fisherman]

Thank you for the invite, I'll be there as soon as I can. We were supposed to get married at Kirkcudbright in April. Just waiting for the new date.

Well all the best to you Picket, thats great. And congratulations on your marriage.

 

[caledonia]

Val with the greatest of respect the fact that Andrew quoted someones post is completely irrelevant.
Andrew posted something that I simply don't agree within this forum.
Now that gives me, you, and anyone else the right of reply.
I posted stating my views.
At that point anyone else on here had the right of reply.
Just as they do regarding this very post.

You yourself replied to a post clearly directed at myself, and why not.
I cannot believe we are actually having this conversation.

Lets get back on topic.

The fact is I don't think folk who only wild camp never paying for parking are freeloaders, thats their right to do so.
Go to any beach in summer and you will find hundreds of cars full of folk who pay for nothing.
Are they also freeloaders.
And when I bought my van I was not aware that I was agreeing to support local communities.
The fact that I do try to support local communities, and do pay for campsites and other locations is entirely my choice.

No where did I say people who only wildcamp are freeloaders. What I said was people who don’t own a camper or motorhome and don’t think like us as in Joe Public when they see a a few motorhomes parked in a carpark they think they are only there to avoid paying for a campsite. Trying to convince Joe to provide us with places to park up is not going to be easy as they think these places already exist in campsites.
Maybe that will be easier for you to understand

 

[Fisherman]

Apparently Vikis in box is full of useful comments from concerned campers. They are full of constructive criticism, and ideas on what to do with her ideas. Looks like some on FB have been busy lately

 

[YES45]

Do you know this as a fact? Can you prove it? It would be useful to be certain as it could undermine her credentials as a local.

Viki is not English, the

AND SHE IS ENGLISH>

My home is in Glen Etive, never knew about this letter, prohibition does not work, we all need to act responsible, just because I live in Glen Etive it does not give me any more rights than anyone else, but having the privilege to live there 52 weeks a year I do have views to share. Just to make it clear Viki is not speaking on my behalf, there are issues like depopulation of rural areas, lack of social housing, access to land to grow food, rural poverty, traveling community rights. A way forward is to start a conversation verbally and not written as written words are so easy to be twisted and misinterpreted, lets not go down the road of "Nationality" we are all "Jock Tamson's Bairns" .

 

[Fisherman]

Viki is not English, the

My home is in Glen Etive, never knew about this letter, prohibition does not work, we all need to act responsible, just because I live in Glen Etive it does not give me any more rights than anyone else, but having the privilege to live there 52 weeks a year I do have views to share. Just to make it clear Viki is not speaking on my behalf, there are issues like depopulation of rural areas, lack of social housing, access to land to grow food, rural poverty, traveling community rights. A way forward is to start a conversation verbally and not written as written words are so easy to be twisted and misinterpreted, lets not go down the road of "Nationality" we are all "Jock Tamson's Bairns" .

yes45, yes

 

[Biggarmac]

Apparently Vikis in box is full of useful comments from concerned campers. They are full of constructive criticism, and ideas on what to do with her ideas. Looks like some on FB have been busy lately

Its good that many people have given her useful comments rather than harranging her. Shows what a responsible lot motorhomers are

 

[sashskelly]

This post came up on the CAMPRA group today. Grim reading. It’s self explanatory. Does anyone know anything about this? Unless the motorhome community digs its collective head out of the sand and comes up with some positive reactions and proposals we may not be enjoying our passion north of the border very much longer.....

<< A letter was passed to me this week by a friend, a campervan user. The letter was sent to Community Councils throughout Scotland asking for help and co-operation in getting camper vans banned from informal, or wild camping, in Scotland.
The letter came from the pen of someone called Viki Sutherland, who is Chair of the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Council.

I won’t reproduce all the letter but key points include the following:

“I have already spoken to many of you on the phone but feel that in spite of this I should include you in the e-mail setting out the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Councils idea to get as many Community Councils to back a collective approach to the problem we all suffer from – over tourism.”

“We would like to suggest that a law be brought in in Scotland that makes it illegal to park overnight in any place other than a proper Camp site. Be this for small vans camping as well as the thousands of Campervans & Caravans that visit us every year.”

“All this needs to be rolled out "pan Scotland”. We all should apply the same rules and have the same signs as our neighbours in order for this to be effective.”

“Once we have agreement and as many onboard as possible we should involve the Scottish Government because only through them will we be able to resolve this.”

“We have all enjoyed a traffic & litter free 3 months and we see the difference to our wildlife and our own lives. None of us want to return to what was deemed as "normal" behaviour by our Visitors. We need the Tourists but if we are not to be overwhelmed again we help to mange them.”

I was very saddened to read this. An attempt to criminalise an innocent pastime is pretty nasty and while I would be the first to agree that some campervanners fall short of the required behaviour it’s unfortunate that this Community Council has failed to recognise the changing face of tourism in Scotland.

When I was a lad we stayed in a caravan on a campsite for a couple of weeks at a time. We didn’t move around. The caravan was static. Most folk enjoyed holidays like this.

Today’s active travel market is very different. People want to explore, they want to use their campervan to travel and live in while they walk, climb, cycle, paddle a canoe or watch birds and wildlife. They want to be able to move around and park at night in a safe piece of level ground. They will check into a campsite every few days to shower and empty waste and pick up fresh water.

Rather than vehemently oppose this form of tourism I’m particularly sad at the lack of vision shown by this Community Council. They should see it as an opportunity, not a problem. An opportunity to create small, informal parking spaces on the edge of villages or towns where camper vans could park overnight for a small fee to cover costs.

Better still would be the creation of a network of Continental-style aires, again with the overnight fees going to the community. It amazes me that in a country like Scotland, that boasts of being progressive, we are actually regressive on issues like this.

It seems that camper vans are being blamed for littering the countryside when recent events during lockdown have clearly demonstrated the fact that the gross littering of our countryside is by members of the general public, folk from all walks of life. Indeed I would go as far as suggesting that campervan owners are amongst the most caring of countryside users.

While many campervanners don’t want to pay upwards of £30-35 for a pitch in a five-star campsite that has all-singing, all-dancing facilities (although some are happy to pay that) I’m pretty sure most are happy to pay a realistic fee for a night in a budget one-star campsite, or Aire.

Instead of trying to criminalise campervanners, community councils should be working with us to create a network of such budget overnights. They will make money from it, their local shops, restaurants, pubs etc will benefit from it and we campervanners will benefit from it too.

I would urge Scottish Community Councils to sit down and talk to us campervan users. There are ways we can all benefit from dialogue and create something that would be good for Scotland, and on a final note I would just add that making overnight campervan parking illegal would mean re-writing UK Traffic law, and that ain’t going to happen. Let’s iron out the problems that exist and create somewhere worthy to benefit everyone. It can be done.

A letter was passed to me this week by a friend, a campervan user. The letter was sent to Community Councils throughout Scotland asking for help and co-operation in getting camper vans banned from informal, or wild camping, in Scotland.
The letter came from the pen of someone called Viki Sutherland, who is Chair of the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Council.

I won’t reproduce all the letter but key points include the following:

“I have already spoken to many of you on the phone but feel that in spite of this I should include you in the e-mail setting out the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Councils idea to get as many Community Councils to back a collective approach to the problem we all suffer from – over tourism.”

“We would like to suggest that a law be brought in in Scotland that makes it illegal to park overnight in any place other than a proper Camp site. Be this for small vans camping as well as the thousands of Campervans & Caravans that visit us every year.”

“All this needs to be rolled out "pan Scotland”. We all should apply the same rules and have the same signs as our neighbours in order for this to be effective.”

“Once we have agreement and as many onboard as possible we should involve the Scottish Government because only through them will we be able to resolve this.”

“We have all enjoyed a traffic & litter free 3 months and we see the difference to our wildlife and our own lives. None of us want to return to what was deemed as "normal" behaviour by our Visitors. We need the Tourists but if we are not to be overwhelmed again we help to mange them.”

I was very saddened to read this. An attempt to criminalise an innocent pastime is pretty nasty and while I would be the first to agree that some campervanners fall short of the required behaviour it’s unfortunate that this Community Council has failed to recognise the changing face of tourism in Scotland.

When I was a lad we stayed in a caravan on a campsite for a couple of weeks at a time. We didn’t move around. The caravan was static. Most folk enjoyed holidays like this.

Today’s active travel market is very different. People want to explore, they want to use their campervan to travel and live in while they walk, climb, cycle, paddle a canoe or watch birds and wildlife. They want to be able to move around and park at night in a safe piece of level ground. They will check into a campsite every few days to shower and empty waste and pick up fresh water.

Rather than vehemently oppose this form of tourism I’m particularly sad at the lack of vision shown by this Community Council. They should see it as an opportunity, not a problem. An opportunity to create small, informal parking spaces on the edge of villages or towns where camper vans could park overnight for a small fee to cover costs.

Better still would be the creation of a network of Continental-style aires, again with the overnight fees going to the community. It amazes me that in a country like Scotland, that boasts of being progressive, we are actually regressive on issues like this.

It seems that camper vans are being blamed for littering the countryside when recent events during lockdown have clearly demonstrated the fact that the gross littering of our countryside is by members of the general public, folk from all walks of life. Indeed I would go as far as suggesting that campervan owners are amongst the most caring of countryside users.

While many campervanners don’t want to pay upwards of £30-35 for a pitch in a five-star campsite that has all-singing, all-dancing facilities (although some are happy to pay that) I’m pretty sure most are happy to pay a realistic fee for a night in a budget one-star campsite, or Aire.

Instead of trying to criminalise campervanners, community councils should be working with us to create a network of such budget overnights. They will make money from it, their local shops, restaurants, pubs etc will benefit from it and we campervanners will benefit from it too.

I would urge Scottish Community Councils to sit down and talk to us campervan users. There are ways we can all benefit from dialogue and create something that would be good for Scotland, and on a final note I would just add that making overnight campervan parking illegal would mean re-writing UK Traffic law, and that ain’t going to happen. Let’s iron out the problems that exist and create somewhere worthy to benefit everyone. It can be done.>>

This post came up on the CAMPRA group today. Grim reading. It’s self explanatory. Does anyone know anything about this? Unless the motorhome community digs its collective head out of the sand and comes up with some positive reactions and proposals we may not be enjoying our passion north of the border very much longer.....

<< A letter was passed to me this week by a friend, a campervan user. The letter was sent to Community Councils throughout Scotland asking for help and co-operation in getting camper vans banned from informal, or wild camping, in Scotland.
The letter came from the pen of someone called Viki Sutherland, who is Chair of the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Council.

I won’t reproduce all the letter but key points include the following:

“I have already spoken to many of you on the phone but feel that in spite of this I should include you in the e-mail setting out the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Councils idea to get as many Community Councils to back a collective approach to the problem we all suffer from – over tourism.”

“We would like to suggest that a law be brought in in Scotland that makes it illegal to park overnight in any place other than a proper Camp site. Be this for small vans camping as well as the thousands of Campervans & Caravans that visit us every year.”

“All this needs to be rolled out "pan Scotland”. We all should apply the same rules and have the same signs as our neighbours in order for this to be effective.”

“Once we have agreement and as many onboard as possible we should involve the Scottish Government because only through them will we be able to resolve this.”

“We have all enjoyed a traffic & litter free 3 months and we see the difference to our wildlife and our own lives. None of us want to return to what was deemed as "normal" behaviour by our Visitors. We need the Tourists but if we are not to be overwhelmed again we help to mange them.”

I was very saddened to read this. An attempt to criminalise an innocent pastime is pretty nasty and while I would be the first to agree that some campervanners fall short of the required behaviour it’s unfortunate that this Community Council has failed to recognise the changing face of tourism in Scotland.

When I was a lad we stayed in a caravan on a campsite for a couple of weeks at a time. We didn’t move around. The caravan was static. Most folk enjoyed holidays like this.

Today’s active travel market is very different. People want to explore, they want to use their campervan to travel and live in while they walk, climb, cycle, paddle a canoe or watch birds and wildlife. They want to be able to move around and park at night in a safe piece of level ground. They will check into a campsite every few days to shower and empty waste and pick up fresh water.

Rather than vehemently oppose this form of tourism I’m particularly sad at the lack of vision shown by this Community Council. They should see it as an opportunity, not a problem. An opportunity to create small, informal parking spaces on the edge of villages or towns where camper vans could park overnight for a small fee to cover costs.

Better still would be the creation of a network of Continental-style aires, again with the overnight fees going to the community. It amazes me that in a country like Scotland, that boasts of being progressive, we are actually regressive on issues like this.

It seems that camper vans are being blamed for littering the countryside when recent events during lockdown have clearly demonstrated the fact that the gross littering of our countryside is by members of the general public, folk from all walks of life. Indeed I would go as far as suggesting that campervan owners are amongst the most caring of countryside users.

While many campervanners don’t want to pay upwards of £30-35 for a pitch in a five-star campsite that has all-singing, all-dancing facilities (although some are happy to pay that) I’m pretty sure most are happy to pay a realistic fee for a night in a budget one-star campsite, or Aire.

Instead of trying to criminalise campervanners, community councils should be working with us to create a network of such budget overnights. They will make money from it, their local shops, restaurants, pubs etc will benefit from it and we campervanners will benefit from it too.

I would urge Scottish Community Councils to sit down and talk to us campervan users. There are ways we can all benefit from dialogue and create something that would be good for Scotland, and on a final note I would just add that making overnight campervan parking illegal would mean re-writing UK Traffic law, and that ain’t going to happen. Let’s iron out the problems that exist and create somewhere worthy to benefit everyone. It can be done.

A letter was passed to me this week by a friend, a campervan user. The letter was sent to Community Councils throughout Scotland asking for help and co-operation in getting camper vans banned from informal, or wild camping, in Scotland.
The letter came from the pen of someone called Viki Sutherland, who is Chair of the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Council.

I won’t reproduce all the letter but key points include the following:

“I have already spoken to many of you on the phone but feel that in spite of this I should include you in the e-mail setting out the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Councils idea to get as many Community Councils to back a collective approach to the problem we all suffer from – over tourism.”

“We would like to suggest that a law be brought in in Scotland that makes it illegal to park overnight in any place other than a proper Camp site. Be this for small vans camping as well as the thousands of Campervans & Caravans that visit us every year.”

“All this needs to be rolled out "pan Scotland”. We all should apply the same rules and have the same signs as our neighbours in order for this to be effective.”

“Once we have agreement and as many onboard as possible we should involve the Scottish Government because only through them will we be able to resolve this.”

“We have all enjoyed a traffic & litter free 3 months and we see the difference to our wildlife and our own lives. None of us want to return to what was deemed as "normal" behaviour by our Visitors. We need the Tourists but if we are not to be overwhelmed again we help to mange them.”

I was very saddened to read this. An attempt to criminalise an innocent pastime is pretty nasty and while I would be the first to agree that some campervanners fall short of the required behaviour it’s unfortunate that this Community Council has failed to recognise the changing face of tourism in Scotland.

When I was a lad we stayed in a caravan on a campsite for a couple of weeks at a time. We didn’t move around. The caravan was static. Most folk enjoyed holidays like this.

Today’s active travel market is very different. People want to explore, they want to use their campervan to travel and live in while they walk, climb, cycle, paddle a canoe or watch birds and wildlife. They want to be able to move around and park at night in a safe piece of level ground. They will check into a campsite every few days to shower and empty waste and pick up fresh water.

Rather than vehemently oppose this form of tourism I’m particularly sad at the lack of vision shown by this Community Council. They should see it as an opportunity, not a problem. An opportunity to create small, informal parking spaces on the edge of villages or towns where camper vans could park overnight for a small fee to cover costs.

Better still would be the creation of a network of Continental-style aires, again with the overnight fees going to the community. It amazes me that in a country like Scotland, that boasts of being progressive, we are actually regressive on issues like this.

It seems that camper vans are being blamed for littering the countryside when recent events during lockdown have clearly demonstrated the fact that the gross littering of our countryside is by members of the general public, folk from all walks of life. Indeed I would go as far as suggesting that campervan owners are amongst the most caring of countryside users.

While many campervanners don’t want to pay upwards of £30-35 for a pitch in a five-star campsite that has all-singing, all-dancing facilities (although some are happy to pay that) I’m pretty sure most are happy to pay a realistic fee for a night in a budget one-star campsite, or Aire.

Instead of trying to criminalise campervanners, community councils should be working with us to create a network of such budget overnights. They will make money from it, their local shops, restaurants, pubs etc will benefit from it and we campervanners will benefit from it too.

I would urge Scottish Community Councils to sit down and talk to us campervan users. There are ways we can all benefit from dialogue and create something that would be good for Scotland, and on a final note I would just add that making overnight campervan parking illegal would mean re-writing UK Traffic law, and that ain’t going to happen. Let’s iron out the problems that exist and create somewhere worthy to benefit everyone. It can be done.>>

It was only last week that there was an article in a newspaper regarding a wood in Stirling that had been used as a dump and had litter everywhere from day trippers so therefore its not tourists but locals.We were at the viewpoint at bridge of orchy last year and there are now signs saying no stopping for motorhomes at all as well as no overnight....surely this is blatant discrimination by the highland council as cars bikes cycles and even trucks can stop.I blame the highland council for everything because they promoted the north coast 500 with a view towards lining their pockets but didnt put in place any infrastructure.There are not enough sites now and so of course people including me will wild camp.Yes there are the minority who will ruin it for all but that is the case in any other situation.If Scotland wants tourism then put in place aires either free or low cost as our very very pro motorhome continental friends do.It seems that if this letter is correct then its the usual case of we dont like you but we will take your money...just because we wild camp doesnt mean we dont contribute to the local economy we DO...we buy food drink and refuel dont we?

 

[peter palance]

Twitter or Twatter ?

legs a 11 if you please, eyes down looking, ok.pj.

 

[Fisherman]

No where did I say people who only wildcamp are freeloaders. What I said was people who don’t own a camper or motorhome and don’t think like us as in Joe Public when they see a a few motorhomes parked in a carpark they think they are only there to avoid paying for a campsite. Trying to convince Joe to provide us with places to park up is not going to be easy as they think these places already exist in campsites.
Maybe that will be easier for you to understand

I have just been informed of this post.

Nowhere did I state that you stated that those those who only wild camp are free loaders. Nowhere did I mention you, or direct any replies to you.
I know fine well what you meant after reading your post in Toms reply. You meant exactly what you posted that some locals will think we are freeloaders. I absolutely agree with that. It’s stating the very obvious. But it appears that the locals are not alone in thinking that way.

Channa then replied to your post stating that

“sometimes they are right”

Who are right, obviously the locals are.
Hence my reply that I don’t think we are ever freeloaders. My reply was directed at Channa, you were never mentioned.
Then maingate posted that Channa was right that we do have freeloaders amongst us, and that he has been given a hard time from locals because of them. He told us he was not a freeloader, but others were.


Normally I don’t read your posts or reply to them, and from now on that’s how I will continue.
As for me finding things easy to understand. That comment is exactly why I don’t read your posts on here now, or in future. Maybe best if you did likewise. It will make for better reading for everyone else.

 

[caledonia]

Well that’s me told then

 

[Ggohd]

I once had an English policeman try to move me on from a very quiet off road lay by in Yorkshire. I pointed out to him that I was too fatigued to drive and would be in contravention of the highway code if I did drive without suitable rest. I asked for his name and number and told him that in the event of an incident caused by fatigue I would make a point of mentioning that I was in contravention of the highway code on his instruction. As he was thinking about that I suggested he might like to also move on the wagon parked 50 meters further down from me. He looked uncomfortable. had a quick walk round the van and was on his way.
I have never had this experience in France, Spain or Portugal. Interesting that the busy body is thought to be an incomer, nothing against them at all, but some do need to learn not to bring their attitudes up north.

We are unfortunate that since regionalisation we have lost any pretence of local government, control now lies in the hands of faceless bureaucrats many miles away in a very centralised system. No longer do we have burgh councils consisting of the butcher, baker and candlestick maker.with a local provost who is interested solely in the advancement of his/her community. My experience of community councils is that they are in many cases constituted of members who have an axe to grind about this, that or the other.

The provision of aires is to the benefit of communities and is unlikely to slow down the booking of holiday cottages, which attract a different sort of punter.

The answer does lie with the Scottish government to legislate for the provision of temporary stopping places, possibly limited to 48hrs and with at least a grey water drain. A tap and sluice would be nice but not necessary. Definitely no electricity. These need not be co-located but as in France could be provided by a supermarket or in the parking next to public toilets, enhancing business.

If this matter proceeds and the perpetrator is not shot down in flames then it would not be difficult to organise a petition to the Scottish government through this site. I don't know what the membership is, but at the moment 598 have read this thread, so many times more than that could potentially sign, along with other interested groups.

Just at the moment it's probably not the right moment to encourage too many border crossings from the south, there is a sensitivity about the further importation of Covid, which at the moment has only a few new cases and no deaths for some days. But this will pass and things get back to normal.