Wildcamping in Scotland-An existential threat

Glad to hear Viki has calmed down - though a friend sent me the attached link and it looks likes Cornwall is kicking up! :(

read here

do send any counsellors this to additionally consider re wild camping. It’s one of my ‘hobby horses’ ;) It stresses responsible wild camping and the plus sides of doing it with children !

Just read some of it. It's brilliant and so well put together.
But where do you put all the kids at night? And all your tut, games etc....
 
Speaking with the gent that patrols around St Mary's Loch area, (he is employed by the land owner) his actual words to me were "I never have any problems with those parking up for a night or two who are MH or campervan owners". Tent campers are killing it for us!!

There will always be the "spoilers" Terry, whether in tents, cars or motorhomes. One approach might be to promote specific groups such as WC or MH whose members are signed up to adhere to the "leave no trace" approach. We would need to adopt the wider use of windscreen stickers to identify us and make it clear that we would adopt a "name and shame" approach if locals reported seeing a member causing a nuisance. A bit of self policing might promote a better image, at least for some of us. Just a thought .........
 
There will always be the "spoilers" Terry, whether in tents, cars or motorhomes. One approach might be to promote specific groups such as WC or MH whose members are signed up to adhere to the "leave no trace" approach. We would need to adopt the wider use of windscreen stickers to identify us and make it clear that we would adopt a "name and shame" approach if locals reported seeing a member causing a nuisance. A bit of self policing might promote a better image, at least for some of us. Just a thought .........
The idea is that the aires should be open to all. Visitors from abroad would not have stickers and would be excluded under your scheme. We already have CLs and CSs which are exclusive to members of the big clubs. Having another type of exclusive sites would not help foreign visitors.
 
Ok let’s get a grip on this situation, and let’s put some perspective on what’s actually happening right now. And furthermore let’s try to see a way forward, because if we don’t then we will suffer.


Perceptions are important. But when these perceptions are based on negative ill informed outlooks they are both damaging to those they are referring to, and to those use use these flawed perceptions as a basis for any judgments or decisions that they take. Right now anyone from a councillor to a large media outlet can refer to us with impunity. They have no one to answer to, and who would the BBC refer to for opinions on wild camping, the C&MC or the CCC, through self interest they would only confirm the views held by the great il informed. We need a national body who will argue our corner, fight back against all of the negativity directed towards us. A body who the media could both communicate with and relate to when these issues arrive. And what’s also important is how we view ourselves. To many of us think negatively about ourselves. Seeing us as a burden, looking to be pampered. We are not a burden, we are being burdened by draconian restrictions placed upon us. We don’t want to be pampered, given special treatment. Just treated like the hard working, tax payers that we all are or were before retirement.

Aires with facilities would be great, and in some circumstances in remote locations almost a must. But if we simply got rid of most of not all of the barriers and signage overnight, there would be a massive increase in availability for us to park for the night. Take one example of how ludicrous a situation we have got into.
I was in Cromer in Norfolk last year. Cromer has one of the largest carparks I have ever seen. You can pay for a whole weeks parking for about £10. You can leave your van parked there overnight, but you cant stay inside it between 11pm and 7am.
Cromer could easily take 40 or 50 vans in a carpark that could easily take around 2-3,000 cars. Honestly it’s that large. Now if councils were made more accountable in law and had more stringent laws to overcome to put such preposterous controls in place, then you would see things starting to change. I am confident that Scotland will in the near future see the light ahead of the rest of the UK. I reckon in the next few years you will start to see massive improvements up here. We already offer freedom to roam for walkers and those wishing to pitch tents, and we are more in tune up here to what’s going on right now. As Cameron McNeish states times are changing, and it’s time that some in local councils, and in national governments woke up to this fact.

The vast majority of us are decent law abiding considerate people not some problem to be dealt with by people who don't know the difference between a camper and a Motorhome. All we ask is fair and equitable treatment based on the reality that now exists in this country. Putting up more and more barriers and signage, and attitudes like those coming from Cornwall have to cease. What’s required is forward logical and balanced decision making. Backed up by action.
 
Last edited:
In what way was the Loch Lomond scheme a failure? And is it still running?
permits required for overnight stays, only in official spots, LLTT NP had hoped that private enterprise would expand to fill in the gaps but this never happened and even when expanded to include more areas did little to support the community and there are still many issues with the current situation. not sure what the situation is just now as I for one have not ventured into the park during the season for some time
 
The idea is that the aires should be open to all. Visitors from abroad would not have stickers and would be excluded under your scheme. We already have CLs and CSs which are exclusive to members of the big clubs. Having another type of exclusive sites would not help foreign visitors.
That wasn't what I meant and in any event there would be nothing stopping foreigners from signing up. I simply meant that a bit of self promotion of forums like WC and MH, whose members subscribe to looking after the environment, to community councils for example would not do any harm. On the ground we would need to be identifiable hence the suggestion of the wider use of windscreen stickers.
 
This post came up on the CAMPRA group today. Grim reading. It’s self explanatory. Does anyone know anything about this? Unless the motorhome community digs its collective head out of the sand and comes up with some positive reactions and proposals we may not be enjoying our passion north of the border very much longer.....

<< A letter was passed to me this week by a friend, a campervan user. The letter was sent to Community Councils throughout Scotland asking for help and co-operation in getting camper vans banned from informal, or wild camping, in Scotland.
The letter came from the pen of someone called Viki Sutherland, who is Chair of the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Council.

I won’t reproduce all the letter but key points include the following:

“I have already spoken to many of you on the phone but feel that in spite of this I should include you in the e-mail setting out the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Councils idea to get as many Community Councils to back a collective approach to the problem we all suffer from – over tourism.”

“We would like to suggest that a law be brought in in Scotland that makes it illegal to park overnight in any place other than a proper Camp site. Be this for small vans camping as well as the thousands of Campervans & Caravans that visit us every year.”

“All this needs to be rolled out "pan Scotland”. We all should apply the same rules and have the same signs as our neighbours in order for this to be effective.”

“Once we have agreement and as many onboard as possible we should involve the Scottish Government because only through them will we be able to resolve this.”

“We have all enjoyed a traffic & litter free 3 months and we see the difference to our wildlife and our own lives. None of us want to return to what was deemed as "normal" behaviour by our Visitors. We need the Tourists but if we are not to be overwhelmed again we help to mange them.”

I was very saddened to read this. An attempt to criminalise an innocent pastime is pretty nasty and while I would be the first to agree that some campervanners fall short of the required behaviour it’s unfortunate that this Community Council has failed to recognise the changing face of tourism in Scotland.

When I was a lad we stayed in a caravan on a campsite for a couple of weeks at a time. We didn’t move around. The caravan was static. Most folk enjoyed holidays like this.

Today’s active travel market is very different. People want to explore, they want to use their campervan to travel and live in while they walk, climb, cycle, paddle a canoe or watch birds and wildlife. They want to be able to move around and park at night in a safe piece of level ground. They will check into a campsite every few days to shower and empty waste and pick up fresh water.

Rather than vehemently oppose this form of tourism I’m particularly sad at the lack of vision shown by this Community Council. They should see it as an opportunity, not a problem. An opportunity to create small, informal parking spaces on the edge of villages or towns where camper vans could park overnight for a small fee to cover costs.

Better still would be the creation of a network of Continental-style aires, again with the overnight fees going to the community. It amazes me that in a country like Scotland, that boasts of being progressive, we are actually regressive on issues like this.

It seems that camper vans are being blamed for littering the countryside when recent events during lockdown have clearly demonstrated the fact that the gross littering of our countryside is by members of the general public, folk from all walks of life. Indeed I would go as far as suggesting that campervan owners are amongst the most caring of countryside users.

While many campervanners don’t want to pay upwards of £30-35 for a pitch in a five-star campsite that has all-singing, all-dancing facilities (although some are happy to pay that) I’m pretty sure most are happy to pay a realistic fee for a night in a budget one-star campsite, or Aire.

Instead of trying to criminalise campervanners, community councils should be working with us to create a network of such budget overnights. They will make money from it, their local shops, restaurants, pubs etc will benefit from it and we campervanners will benefit from it too.

I would urge Scottish Community Councils to sit down and talk to us campervan users. There are ways we can all benefit from dialogue and create something that would be good for Scotland, and on a final note I would just add that making overnight campervan parking illegal would mean re-writing UK Traffic law, and that ain’t going to happen. Let’s iron out the problems that exist and create somewhere worthy to benefit everyone. It can be done.

A letter was passed to me this week by a friend, a campervan user. The letter was sent to Community Councils throughout Scotland asking for help and co-operation in getting camper vans banned from informal, or wild camping, in Scotland.
The letter came from the pen of someone called Viki Sutherland, who is Chair of the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Council.

I won’t reproduce all the letter but key points include the following:

“I have already spoken to many of you on the phone but feel that in spite of this I should include you in the e-mail setting out the Glencoe & Glen Etive Community Councils idea to get as many Community Councils to back a collective approach to the problem we all suffer from – over tourism.”

“We would like to suggest that a law be brought in in Scotland that makes it illegal to park overnight in any place other than a proper Camp site. Be this for small vans camping as well as the thousands of Campervans & Caravans that visit us every year.”

“All this needs to be rolled out "pan Scotland”. We all should apply the same rules and have the same signs as our neighbours in order for this to be effective.”

“Once we have agreement and as many onboard as possible we should involve the Scottish Government because only through them will we be able to resolve this.”

“We have all enjoyed a traffic & litter free 3 months and we see the difference to our wildlife and our own lives. None of us want to return to what was deemed as "normal" behaviour by our Visitors. We need the Tourists but if we are not to be overwhelmed again we help to mange them.”

I was very saddened to read this. An attempt to criminalise an innocent pastime is pretty nasty and while I would be the first to agree that some campervanners fall short of the required behaviour it’s unfortunate that this Community Council has failed to recognise the changing face of tourism in Scotland.

When I was a lad we stayed in a caravan on a campsite for a couple of weeks at a time. We didn’t move around. The caravan was static. Most folk enjoyed holidays like this.

Today’s active travel market is very different. People want to explore, they want to use their campervan to travel and live in while they walk, climb, cycle, paddle a canoe or watch birds and wildlife. They want to be able to move around and park at night in a safe piece of level ground. They will check into a campsite every few days to shower and empty waste and pick up fresh water.

Rather than vehemently oppose this form of tourism I’m particularly sad at the lack of vision shown by this Community Council. They should see it as an opportunity, not a problem. An opportunity to create small, informal parking spaces on the edge of villages or towns where camper vans could park overnight for a small fee to cover costs.

Better still would be the creation of a network of Continental-style aires, again with the overnight fees going to the community. It amazes me that in a country like Scotland, that boasts of being progressive, we are actually regressive on issues like this.

It seems that camper vans are being blamed for littering the countryside when recent events during lockdown have clearly demonstrated the fact that the gross littering of our countryside is by members of the general public, folk from all walks of life. Indeed I would go as far as suggesting that campervan owners are amongst the most caring of countryside users.

While many campervanners don’t want to pay upwards of £30-35 for a pitch in a five-star campsite that has all-singing, all-dancing facilities (although some are happy to pay that) I’m pretty sure most are happy to pay a realistic fee for a night in a budget one-star campsite, or Aire.

Instead of trying to criminalise campervanners, community councils should be working with us to create a network of such budget overnights. They will make money from it, their local shops, restaurants, pubs etc will benefit from it and we campervanners will benefit from it too.

I would urge Scottish Community Councils to sit down and talk to us campervan users. There are ways we can all benefit from dialogue and create something that would be good for Scotland, and on a final note I would just add that making overnight campervan parking illegal would mean re-writing UK Traffic law, and that ain’t going to happen. Let’s iron out the problems that exist and create somewhere worthy to benefit everyone. It can be done.>>
The Scottish council could encourage large supermarkets, places of interest, Sea life centre, National trust car parks ( now limited to visitor’s daily ) race corses etc for overnight stays at an acceptable fee Win Win
 
It is actually good this couple participate with their CC, it would also be good if they removed their blinkers, cast their eyes on how it works within countries over the channel and North Sea, to how MH/Camper van tourists are treated with the aires system and equivalent, the benefits this brings to rural communities, in fact, look down the road to Fife Council and what they are doing with for example, Lochore Meadows, and the income this generates for the council.
I hadn't heard of lochore meadows development before, thank you. my experiences in Fife have been mostly negative and responses from the council have been the usual stay at a campsite, no parking even at park and rides and don't even come into our towns because all the bays are too small.
 
The Scottish council could encourage large supermarkets, places of interest, Sea life centre, National trust car parks ( now limited to visitor’s daily ) race corses etc for overnight stays at an acceptable fee Win Win
have suggested this to my local MSP. if we all report our problems and ideas, we might get something done
 
Let’s try and keep a bit of perspective here.
This woman is an idiot, that no one will take any heed off.
But that’s not the point, the point is she is not alone with her views.
Yes let’s ban all overnight parking in glencoe and that takes care of all its problems.
The fact is overnight parking when glencoe is quiet is not the problem.
The problem is glencoe is a stunning location that many wish to visit, but little or nothing has been done to facilitate this over the years. There is a a good CCC campsite there which provides chemical waste stops for its members. A four hour stay where you can shower, and replenish for £7.20. But due to corona they have temporarily had to stop this facility throughout their network.
Every time the media have a go at us, we never get a chance to retort.
The reason for this is there is no organisation out there for them to look to for an opinion. Unless we get organised things will get worse. I don’t see any carte Blanche bans, but instead a steady erosion of our civil rights.
Scottish travel and tourism may take notice of a right to wild camp petition. They could consider a wild camp register so in cases of dumping waste people can be culpable, although difficult with tents the MH should get vindicated.
 
It’s easy for us who’s hobby is parking in remote spots in our campervan or motorhomes to understand our wants and needs but when Joe public see two or three motorhomes parked in a beauty spot car park they instantly think we’re freeloading and should be using the local campsite.
 
Scottish travel and tourism may take notice of a right to wild camp petition. They could consider a wild camp register so in cases of dumping waste people can be culpable, although difficult with tents the MH should get vindicated.

Yes thats the kind of thing that may be required. Fife Council are considering such a scheme as highlighted within their proposals published last year.
And to some extent it could be self policing. It's not in our interests to ignore such behaviour if we witness it.
I would have no problems reporting someone for tipping chemical waste inappropriately. But it's important that if you do this you highlight that you also are a motorhome owner. That way those who behave poorly will sully our reputation, but if we then highlight the fact that it's a motorhome owner who is reporting this, then it goes a long way to mitigate any damage done. Obviously its up to the individual to decide wether or not to approach such an individual, and this could be reported after leaving the stopover. Grey water is a grey area though with many CLs asking you to tip it into a bush. Just my opinion, but I don't view that in the same light as tipping a cassette. I believe as another poster stated, in New Zealand tipping your cassette could mean an end to your holiday.
 
Last edited:
It’s easy for us who’s hobby is parking in remote spots in our campervan or motorhomes to understand our wants and needs but when Joe public see two or three motorhomes parked in a beauty spot car park they instantly think we’re freeloading and should be using the local campsite.
Then let Joe think it. Or, even better, let Joe make a complaint then we will know what he thinks and can deal with it. And then, when the council says there have been complaints, we can answer them. But there are hardly ever complaints to answer. We think Joe Public complains and he doesn't. We think that surely he must complain - and yet he rarely does. We think up all sort of reasons why there is never a record of his complaints - but there aren't any. Or only rarely and then often from someone with a business interest.
 
There has been a thread on the local facebook page today about vans parked on the local campsite. Someone wanted to know how they were going to deal with their waste when the toilets weren't open. They did not believe that all the vans would have their own toilets. A few posts put them right. That's why we need a presence on social media.
 
Then let Joe think it. Or, even better, let Joe make a complaint then we will know what he thinks and can deal with it. And then, when the council says there have been complaints, we can answer them. But there are hardly ever complaints to answer. We think Joe Public complains and he doesn't. We think that surely he must complain - and yet he rarely does. We think up all sort of reasons why there is never a record of his complaints - but there aren't any. Or only rarely and then often from someone with a business interest.

Possibly we should all just stop parking because of what joe thinks. :)
Let’s face it if it left to some joes we would not be allowed on the road, never mind park in a parking bay.
We really have to stop thinking negatively about ourselves.
If we don't, how can we expect others not to do likewise.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2cv
There has been a thread on the local facebook page today about vans parked on the local campsite. Someone wanted to know how they were going to deal with their waste when the toilets weren't open. They did not believe that all the vans would have their own toilets. A few posts put them right. That's why we need a presence on social media.

Spot on could not agree more.

The great Ill informed, have to become the great informed.

With Knowledge comes reasoning and perspective.

With ignorance comes, exactly what we have right now.
 
It’s easy for us who’s hobby is parking in remote spots in our campervan or motorhomes to understand our wants and needs but when Joe public see two or three motorhomes parked in a beauty spot car park they instantly think we’re freeloading and should be using the local campsite.
And in some cases they are right
 
And in some cases they are right

No Andrew they are never right.
This is a free country, and it's up to the individual to do as they see fit.
Not some local nimby who has nothing better to do with their time.
I am not or ever have or ever will be a free loader.
Free loaders don't work for 50 years, and pay all their taxes.
If I use a campsite, which I do regularly, thats my choice, and to have that choice is my right.
 
No Andrew they are never right.
This is a free country, and it's up to the individual to do as they see fit.
Not some local nimby who has nothing better to do with their time.
I am not or ever have or ever will be a free loader.
Free loaders don't work for 50 years, and pay all their taxes.
If I use a campsite, which I do regularly, thats my choice, and to have that choice is my right.
Bill yes they are right, when as mentioned in the whitby thread people are abusing with chairs,tables and in essence camping unless you are condoning such behaviour.?
 

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Back
Top