Where has all the Calor Gas gone?

[in h]

Now, I use two cylinders on average a year at £25 a cylinder. 6 kg of propane is roughly 12 litres, which at 64p/l costs £7.68, so the difference per cylinder is £17.32. It would thus take about eight and a half years to recover the cost of installing a fixed refillable system, which is probably longer than I'll own the van and thus I wouldn't fully recoup the cost and a refillable system would actually work out more expensive.

You're missing the reason you have two bottles. It's so that you have a spare when one runs out. With a refillable, you'd never run out, so you'd only need one. Half the cost, half the weight.
As long as the refillable is in a gas locker with an external fill point, you'll never have a problem refilling. Sorry to hear that LPG is so expensive where you are, though. The answer is to top up every time you pass a cheap supplier. For you, that only seems to be two or three times a year.

 

[in h]

That is why is was a pointless reply for anyone to choses to for whatever reason use exchangable gas bottles rather than refillables.

Also, most people also use far more batteries that cannot be recharged than those that can be (usually in AA and AAA size)

People who use a lot of AA and AAA probably use rechargeable ones.

 

[wildebus]

People who use a lot of AA and AAA probably use rechargeable ones.

If you have one Leisure Battery and use 4 AA non-rechargable Batteries in a year, you are using 400% more non-rechargable. that is a big difference in number of batteries and over say 5 years, one rechargable and 20 non-rechargable.... even more so

 

[GeoffL]

People who use a lot of AA and AAA probably use rechargeable ones.

Unfortunately, rechargeable batteries tend to be 1.2v compared with the 1.5v of alkalines etc. and the difference makes a difference. For example, I have several LED torches that won't work on rechargeables.

 

[GeoffL]

You're missing the reason you have two bottles. It's so that you have a spare when one runs out. With a refillable, you'd never run out, so you'd only need one. Half the cost, half the weight.
As long as the refillable is in a gas locker with an external fill point, you'll never have a problem refilling. Sorry to hear that LPG is so expensive where you are, though. The answer is to top up every time you pass a cheap supplier. For you, that only seems to be two or three times a year.

I was also missing that the GasIt pricing doesn't include the filling point, hoses, level indicator, etc. All that brings the cost of a single 6kg cylinder system to £274 and so it's still going to take 8 years for me to recoup the cost and thus refillables don't make sense for me. However, as before, I accept that it might for others with different circumstances and that YMMV.

Edited to add: FWIW, I got the price of LPG from GlobalPetrolPrices.com on the 'net and have no idea what it is 'near' me. Also, AFAICT there is nowhere within 15 miles to refuel.

 

[shaunr68]

For some, fitting refillable isn't solely a financial consideration about recouping the purchase cost over time. I fitted a twin Gas-It system for a friend early this year. He's 75 and commented that the system will "see him out". He may never break even on the system versus bottled gas but for him the biggest benefit is not having to lug heavy bottles about as he gets older. He also commented that you can't take it with you and he doesn't really care about the expense. At his age, if he wants it and has the money, he will have it.

 

[witzend]

I was also missing that the GasIt pricing doesn't include the filling point, hoses, level indicator, etc. All that brings the cost of a single 6kg cylinder system to £274 and so it's still going to take 8 years for me to recoup the cost and thus refillables don't make sense for me. However, as before, I accept that it might for others with different circumstances and that YMMV.

And if you tour in Europe there bottled gas is much cheaper in Spain cheaper than LPG at the pump and no large deposit in France just €1 and easily obtained every where

 

[wildebus]

AIUI, many filling stations won't allow refilling of portable containers, legally refillable or otherwise, and it would take a long time for those who have 'legacy' Calor, Flogas etc. cylinders to recoup of the cost of a fixed refillable system. For example, I have two Calor cylinders that have an 'exchange chain' going back to 2 small butane cylinders I bought in the mid-1980s. A Gaslite system to replace that would cost of the order of £300. Now, I use two cylinders on average a year at £25 a cylinder. 6 kg of propane is roughly 12 litres, which at 64p/l costs £7.68, so the difference per cylinder is £17.32. It would thus take about eight and a half years to recover the cost of installing a fixed refillable system, which is probably longer than I'll own the van and thus I wouldn't fully recoup the cost and a refillable system would actually work out more expensive. Add the reducing number of autogas stations to that and refillables don't make sense for me. However, I accept that it's different for someone starting out from fresh and that YMMV.

It is certainly not a clear-cut choice, that is for sure.

At two cylinders a year, on the pure maths side it would likely make sense to stick to exchangables. Also, if you were to stick to the recommendations of not using refillable cylinders past a certain date without inspection or more likely replacement, once you have broken even on your usage after around 8 years, quite soon after that you would end up with an additional cost for a new bottle and the cycle restarts to a degree.

Ability to refill seems to be an issue which cannot be ignored either, especially if you have a limited size of bottle you can carry. I think the nearest station I can refill at is 15 miles away? The nearest largish town to me is 5 miles away and has 2 petrol stations; That same town has at least 5 businesses that sell Bottled Gas. If that pattern is typical, finding replacement bottles will almost aways be easier than refilling a bottle.

I am fitting a refillable system in my van as I hope I will be using it a fair bit and it should pay for itself I would think. But that IS also based on buying a used (in date) Gaslow bottle and a Gaslow filler kit, so the cost of changing to a refillable will be around £150.
But I am also hedging my bets by keeping an Exchange bottle as the second one as a precaution based on the previous observation.

 

[mistericeman]

For some, fitting refillable isn't solely a financial consideration about recouping the purchase cost over time. I fitted a twin Gas-It system for a friend early this year. He's 75 and commented that the system will "see him out". He may never break even on the system versus bottled gas but for him the biggest benefit is not having to lug heavy bottles about as he gets older. He also commented that you can't take it with you and he doesn't really care about the expense. At his age, if he wants it and has the money, he will have it.

Same here....
Cost of the gas (58p a litre at my local place) was only part of my fitting...

Convenience of not lugging bottles about OR the pfaff of connecting/disconnecting them...
And being able to fill at convenience rather than waiting till bottle was, empty.
I bought second hand still in date bottles and only needed a filler hose/fill point
All in 2 x 6kg bottles and related pipework was less than £150.

Our gas consumption will drop considerably when I fit a eberspacher D2 and swap the 3 way fridge for a 12v compressor type...
BUT I'll still be delighted to have the refillables on board.

 

[Markd]

I only have one refillable (11kg) and reckon to fill it up well before it runs out - I use 'FillLPG' app to identify locations and semi plan around them.
However I do have a back up calorlite cylinder 'just in case' which I haven't used in two years.
13kg cylinders weigh 28kg full so that's quite a lot to lift in and out and I'd have to carry two.
Whilst 5he locker is big enough I use the space saved to keep a water hose and a 5m length of grey waste pipe so I can get to semi remote drains.

 

[wildebus]

Same here....
Cost of the gas (58p a litre at my local place) was only part of my fitting...

Convenience of not lugging bottles about OR the pfaff of connecting/disconnecting them...
And being able to fill at convenience rather than waiting till bottle was, empty.
I bought second hand still in date bottles and only needed a filler hose/fill point
All in 2 x 6kg bottles and related pipework was less than £150.

Our gas consumption will drop considerably when I fit a eberspacher D2 and swap the 3 way fridge for a 12v compressor type...
BUT I'll still be delighted to have the refillables on board.

When did you last refill? just installed an app on my phone with locations and prices and cheapest seems to be around 68p/l? at any place within 50 miles of me.

 

[mistericeman]

When did you last refill? just installed an app on my phone with locations and prices and cheapest seems to be around 68p/l? at any place within 50 miles of me.

Couple of weeks back...

But was still same price when I walked the dog past there yesterday.

 

[in h]

How many cells in your leisure battery? More than four?

 

[in h]

I only have one refillable (11kg) and reckon to fill it up well before it runs out - I use 'FillLPG' app to identify locations and semi plan around them.

The developer of the filllpg app has removed it from Play Store, but you can still download it (or a newer version) from his web site.
He says he has no contact with the operators of the site it uses, and he worries that the site may close down.
I'm hoping he can be persuaded to make a version of the app that can export its downloaded data to a new server if necessary.

 

[in h]

... cheapest seems to be around 68p/l? at any place within 50 miles of me.

In general, Asda are the best value if the local store sells LPG. At present, it's 52.7 per litre at all Asda sites.
Morrisons are competitive on price: they just about match local competitors, putting prices up where they can.
The likes of Shell and BP seem to charge like a wounded rhino, regardless of competition.
Other suppliers vary a lot.
It's worth having the capacity to top up whenever you pass a cheap source. I do have cheap suppliers near where I live, but I use LPG mostly when I'm nowhere near home.

 

[Markd]

Yes Asda and Morrisons are by far the cheapest but I fear that they will leave the market before too long.

 

[GinaRon]

Another site I have heard of is myLPG.eu it is an app and Ron just tried it, it seems Ok and gives recent reviews of people using it.

 

[Ctcallow]

No 6kg bottles to be had in SW England or South Wales. Managed to get a 3.9kg in Ilfracombe but that’s all.

I moved to two 7.5 kg safe-fill canisters from 6 kg calor a month or so ago. They work fine and its nice getting cheaper gas.

 

[mfw]

You may find roofing suppliers have propane bottles for sale probably 13kg being smallest but might be worth looking at