Vaccine

Tbear said:
If she is seen by a college and is reported, unless she is passed the 14 days isolation, she may well get struck off so I doubt she is a qualified nurse
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I wouldn't question your thoughts any more than I would question what she has told me or the chap who remembered her when in hospital.
 
wildebus said:
It is - and should be - a matter of personal choice.

However, people who decide they won't get the vaccine must accept that it may be others choice - be they individuals or businesses - to not allow them into their homes, shops, planes, ships, etc. And they may get discriminated against for some jobs where their lack of immunisation might post a risk to others.

For a good case study on this, people can read up on "Typhoid Mary", a cook in America (NYC I think?) who was a carrier of Typhoid, refused - as was her right - treatment, but carried on working in kitchens, knowing she was infecting people. She even assumed different identities to get new catering jobs after getting sacked repeatly. In the end she was forceably detained because she refused to stop - so recklessly killing people.
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There seem to be some rather unpleasant people on this planet willing to restrict peoples freedoms and enforce medication on people against the Geneva convention. The take up of the vaccine should be down to the individuals choice and not through coercion more people would undoubtedly take it if they weren't feeling they were forced.
My reluctance on this is for many reasons, I take almost zero medicines, certainly none for blood pressure etc, I do take antibiotics if required and the odd aspirin. When traveling I have had vaccines which are recommended but it is my choice.
With regards to the numerous covid vaccines I'm reluctant to take any (seems odd but virtually from day one it's been the plan to vaccinate the entire world population, why?). Having had covid back in early November means that I will have immunity to the virus on par with the various vaccines this immunity has been studied over the last 9 months or so. It is also noted that it is likely that SARS-CoV-2 will be similar with SARS-CoV-1 which people have immunity 17 years later.
I also wonder what the long term effects on me from the virus will be, can these be made worse by the vaccine? What if any are the long term effects from the vaccine. If the governments are going to have vaccination passports then people with prior covid infections should be included as we have immunity.
 
sparrks said:
There seem to be some rather unpleasant people on this planet willing to restrict peoples freedoms and enforce medication on people against the Geneva convention. The take up of the vaccine should be down to the individuals choice and not through coercion more people would undoubtedly take it if they weren't feeling they were forced.
My reluctance on this is for many reasons, I take almost zero medicines, certainly none for blood pressure etc, I do take antibiotics if required and the odd aspirin. When traveling I have had vaccines which are recommended but it is my choice.
With regards to the numerous covid vaccines I'm reluctant to take any (seems odd but virtually from day one it's been the plan to vaccinate the entire world population, why?). Having had covid back in early November means that I will have immunity to the virus on par with the various vaccines this immunity has been studied over the last 9 months or so. It is also noted that it is likely that SARS-CoV-2 will be similar with SARS-CoV-1 which people have immunity 17 years later.
I also wonder what the long term effects on me from the virus will be, can these be made worse by the vaccine? What if any are the long term effects from the vaccine. If the governments are going to have vaccination passports then people with prior covid infections should be included as we have immunity.
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Good for you. Your Choice. But why should someone else be forced to suffer the implications of your choice?
If they want to restrict you interacting with them in their business is their choice.
 
sparrks said:
There seem to be some rather unpleasant people on this planet willing to restrict peoples freedoms and enforce medication on people against the Geneva convention. The take up of the vaccine should be down to the individuals choice and not through coercion more people would undoubtedly take it if they weren't feeling they were forced.
My reluctance on this is for many reasons, I take almost zero medicines, certainly none for blood pressure etc, I do take antibiotics if required and the odd aspirin. When traveling I have had vaccines which are recommended but it is my choice.
With regards to the numerous covid vaccines I'm reluctant to take any (seems odd but virtually from day one it's been the plan to vaccinate the entire world population, why?). Having had covid back in early November means that I will have immunity to the virus on par with the various vaccines this immunity has been studied over the last 9 months or so. It is also noted that it is likely that SARS-CoV-2 will be similar with SARS-CoV-1 which people have immunity 17 years later.
I also wonder what the long term effects on me from the virus will be, can these be made worse by the vaccine? What if any are the long term effects from the vaccine. If the governments are going to have vaccination passports then people with prior covid infections should be included as we have immunity.
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I have it at the moment, but when i'm offered the vaccine i'll be there......after the year i've had I will do anything to help bring to an end this lockdown. Being constantly afraid isn't my idea of living.
 
wildebus said:
Good for you. Your Choice. But why should someone else be forced to suffer the implications of your choice?
If they want to restrict you interacting with them in their business is their choice.
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Okay you have the vaccine - it won't stop you passing it on to someone else. If I don't have the vaccine can I pass it on if I'm immune? If I can then it's no worse than you having the vaccine. So how will someone else suffer the implications of my choice? If they are worried about getting the virus then they should take the vaccine.

It seems even after mild infections people produce antibodies and T cells that recognize coronavirus epitopes.

Thus, vaccination provides the same effect in which our immune system would be able to detect the epitopes (a part of the antigen that binds to an antibody).

When a new variant appears the changes are not enough to stop the immune system from recognizing the epitopes, therefore the vaccine should work.

So no difference between natural immunity and vaccine.
 
sparrks said:
Okay you have the vaccine - it won't stop you passing it on to someone else. If I don't have the vaccine can I pass it on if I'm immune? If I can then it's no worse than you having the vaccine. So how will someone else suffer the implications of my choice? If they are worried about getting the virus then they should take the vaccine.

It seems even after mild infections people produce antibodies and T cells that recognize coronavirus epitopes.

Thus, vaccination provides the same effect in which our immune system would be able to detect the epitopes (a part of the antigen that binds to an antibody).

When a new variant appears the changes are not enough to stop the immune system from recognizing the epitopes, therefore the vaccine should work.

So no difference between natural immunity and vaccine.
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#1 - it was a general point about choice
#2 - if - and it is still very much an if - recovering gives same effect as vaccine, then people in that situation would likely not be offered the vaccine anyway, so the choice is not there to start with. So your point is irrelevant.
#3 - Even if for example someone who had Covid meant they could 100% not pass it on so could go about their business within any issues or threat to others, if I were running an establishment at a time where Face Masks were still very much recommended, I would still ask you to wear a mask. If you said it was ok as you had Covid and recovered, I would still say wear a mask. If you said it was your choice not to as there was no point, I would still say "don't care. if you want to come in, wear a mask, otherwise don't come in" as I would want my customers to feel safer and some random person claiming immunity won't be appreciated.
 
The majority of rights in the Human Rights Act are qualified rights. Any interference with a qualified right must be in pursuit of a legitimate aim, for example, to protect the rights of others or for the wider good, be lawful, necessary, proportionate, appropriate and not excessive in the circumstances. I only mention this as I feel that anyone should have the right to decline any medical intervention such as taking this vaccine as long as they have capacity under the Mental Capacity Act. But in a free society whilst we have rights we also have responsibilities and we seem to forget that. Worth a discussion though and i dont know the answer. Personally speaking ive taken it in the hope covid can be eradicated and would take any if it means its proven to stop me passing it on. But thats my choice. Others have theirs.
 
wildebus said:
#1 - it was a general point about choice
#2 - if - and it is still very much an if - recovering gives same effect as vaccine, then people in that situation would likely not be offered the vaccine anyway, so the choice is not there to start with. So your point is irrelevant.
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The data period for that is greater for the immunity than it is for the vaccine. People are being given the jab regardless if they've had the virus. So your point is irrelevant.
wildebus said:
#3 - Even if for example someone who had Covid meant they could 100% not pass it on so could go about their business within any issues or threat to others, if I were running an establishment at a time where Face Masks were still very much recommended, I would still ask you to wear a mask. If you said it was ok as you had Covid and recovered, I would still say wear a mask. If you said it was your choice not to as there was no point, I would still say "don't care. if you want to come in, wear a mask, otherwise don't come in" as I would want my customers to feel safer and some random person claiming immunity won't be appreciated.
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My point is being forced by coercion in to having a substance injected into my body which would not give me any extra protection not about wearing a bloody rag on my face.
 
Tezza33 said:
I have no objection to someone refusing the vaccination as long as it is tattooed on their forehead then we can spot them, then we can refuse to treat them, not let them on public transport, make them all live in the North East :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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I know you are at least half joking but I can see an argument to give people a passport to attend sporting events, gyms, cinemas and the like, a month after their second jab. Might open things up earlier.
 
sparrks said:
There seem to be some rather unpleasant people on this planet willing to restrict peoples freedoms and enforce medication on people against the Geneva convention. The take up of the vaccine should be down to the individuals choice and not through coercion more people would undoubtedly take it if they weren't feeling they were forced.
My reluctance on this is for many reasons, I take almost zero medicines, certainly none for blood pressure etc, I do take antibiotics if required and the odd aspirin. When traveling I have had vaccines which are recommended but it is my choice.
With regards to the numerous covid vaccines I'm reluctant to take any (seems odd but virtually from day one it's been the plan to vaccinate the entire world population, why?). Having had covid back in early November means that I will have immunity to the virus on par with the various vaccines this immunity has been studied over the last 9 months or so. It is also noted that it is likely that SARS-CoV-2 will be similar with SARS-CoV-1 which people have immunity 17 years later.
I also wonder what the long term effects on me from the virus will be, can these be made worse by the vaccine? What if any are the long term effects from the vaccine. If the governments are going to have vaccination passports then people with prior covid infections should be included as we have immunity.
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Here’s the official line on immunity after covid 19 infection Link meaning that your immunity may well be near expiry.
In many countries certain vaccinations are a condition of entry.
 
2cv said:
Here’s the official line on immunity after covid 19 infection Link meaning that your immunity may well be near expiry.
In many countries certain vaccinations are a condition of entry.
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Past COVID-19 infection provides some immunity but people may still carry and transmit virus from the article you linked to, seems to be exactly the same as what you can expect from the vaccine not surprising since they work in similar ways.
 
Here is Karen.

Karen.jpg
 
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