The Ups & Downs in the Life of a Battery

I've just purchased a couple of these :

I started a thread a few weeks back about choosing the best replacement batteries. (Which I will update when I have made more progress on the install).

I have now settled on a pair of these babies, which are waiting patiently in the awning room while I tear out many years of electrical sins and dismantle the locker to install them.

Victron Energy 12V 230Ah AGM Super Cycle Battery (M8) - BAT412123081 - Victron Energy Batteries - Victron Energy

(I got them elsewhere for a better price, as the linked supplier was stubborn on pricing).

12v 230aH Victron Energy 12V 230Ah AGM Super Cycle Battery (M8) - BAT412123081

The technical description tells me that these are designed to be regularly drained :

"We recommend the Super Cycle battery for applications where an occasional discharge to 100% DoD, or frequent discharge to 60-80% DoD is expected." which sounds to me that these are ideal for a MH that likes to be off the grid for long spells.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-AGM-Super-Cycle-battery-EN.pdf

I really liked the look of the Northstar Blue range but I have insufficient space to install them, so I've gone for the Victron units.

james
 
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hairydog said:
Not necessarily a good plan unless you do a LOT of research first. A battery to battery charger is a far better idea.

Did you ever find the specs of the cables to find their resistance? It was an interesting bit of investigation that never seemed to get completed.

If you look at the enormous running costs of an eFoy, let alone the installation cost, it becomes rather less appealing as a power source.
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Dont you just love these solar threads, in summer they tell you how good they are at keeping there batteries charged up and and in winter they moan because they are going flat, Like Hairy Dog I have a Sterling Battery to Battery charger too and I`ve never run out of power since fitting it 3 years ago, and thats not sitting reading a book with an led light, it runs 240v TV, Sky Box, Toaster, Hair Dryer, Microwave, and thats even in the middle of winter, no sun.
 
Ive got 4 x 110ah excide leisure batteries, a 7000w pure sine wave inverter and a 150w solar panel. I never need to worry if its warm or freezing, ive got enough power to last for at least a week in a snow blizzard so im happy. You cant have too much electric in any van. Its the one thing everyone is passionate about along with heating and sleeping. Everytime i get a new van, I sort the ele, then the sleeping then the rest is cosmetics.
 
samleeds said:
Ive got 4 x 110ah excide leisure batteries, a 7000w pure sine wave inverter and a 150w solar panel. I never need to worry if its warm or freezing, ive got enough power to last for at least a week in a snow blizzard so im happy. You cant have too much electric in any van. Its the one thing everyone is passionate about along with heating and sleeping. Everytime i get a new van, I sort the ele, then the sleeping then the rest is cosmetics.
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Batteries are purely a buffer inbetween energy gathering periods. More batteries only delay the need to recharge, so there is such a thing as too much electric, as it has a cost associated to it. They still need to be charged, and if you don't book into campsites then the problem will permanently remain.

There is a perfect balance in battery size for everyone out there.
 
samleeds said:
Ive got 4 x 110ah excide leisure batteries, a 7000w pure sine wave inverter and a 150w solar panel. I never need to worry if its warm or freezing, ive got enough power to last for at least a week in a snow blizzard so im happy. You cant have too much electric in any van. Its the one thing everyone is passionate about along with heating and sleeping. Everytime i get a new van, I sort the ele, then the sleeping then the rest is cosmetics.
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Having a large battery bank is good, having a suitable means to charge it is a must.
 
I've noticed watching some US #vanlife channels that many vans have very large inverters, especially in relation to their battery bank size.
Can't deny I would be a bit concerned about a setup that has a 7000kW inverter on a 400Ah battery bank - if you were to use that size inverter at full power, you'd have eaten 50% of the total capacity in around 15 minutes!
 
Dont you just love reading posts that spread doom and gloom, generally from people that know very little about the subject in hand. As a former auto electrician, I have no fear about electric or indeed how to use it. Batteries are little more than reservoir for power and it makes no difference how many you have, the draw and usage is the same. A 150w solar panel will drop between 1 to 7 amps into the batts on cloudy or bright days so if the clouds are bad for a week, my 440ah will still be going strong whle john and mary lunchbuckets eco 85ah is as flat as a pancake. How long it takw to charge them up is academic. I stay away for a week so I dont need sun so when i get back home, The hook up from the garage can be used, but if the weathers good, my batts recover from the solar and no vans usage quite well. The inverter is 7000w pure sine wave, because under load, the bigger the more efficient they are and i hardly think anyone would be so stupid to run a 7000w appliance because it would be asking for a melt down. I have a 1000w hair dryer for my wife for 5 mins max. we have a couple of 300w appliances which get used for an hour or so and the rest of the time, its left off. Having something you can use if you want and have no issues, is far better than not having something you need and dont have. 2 weeks ago i spent 6 days with snow on the panel most days and when i got home I was at 30% on the batteries, that meant i used a hell of a lot more electric than a 2 x 110ah bank would have allowed me so job done. In the summer I just let them charge and discharge as the loads permit but I do admit to using the electric kettle and microwave and toaster more often than i should. rant over.
 
samleeds said:
Dont you just love reading posts that spread doom and gloom, generally from people that know very little about the subject in hand. As a former auto electrician, I have no fear about electric or indeed how to use it. Batteries are little more than reservoir for power and it makes no difference how many you have, the draw and usage is the same. A 150w solar panel will drop between 1 to 7 amps into the batts on cloudy or bright days so if the clouds are bad for a week, my 440ah will still be going strong whle john and mary lunchbuckets eco 85ah is as flat as a pancake. How long it takw to charge them up is academic. I stay away for a week so I dont need sun so when i get back home, The hook up from the garage can be used, but if the weathers good, my batts recover from the solar and no vans usage quite well. The inverter is 7000w pure sine wave, because under load, the bigger the more efficient they are and i hardly think anyone would be so stupid to run a 7000w appliance because it would be asking for a melt down. I have a 1000w hair dryer for my wife for 5 mins max. we have a couple of 300w appliances which get used for an hour or so and the rest of the time, its left off. Having something you can use if you want and have no issues, is far better than not having something you need and dont have. 2 weeks ago i spent 6 days with snow on the panel most days and when i got home I was at 30% on the batteries, that meant i used a hell of a lot more electric than a 2 x 110ah bank would have allowed me so job done. In the summer I just let them charge and discharge as the loads permit but I do admit to using the electric kettle and microwave and toaster more often than i should. rant over.
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Ok , so you charge the batteries fully before leaving home and then rely on the large capacity to get you through the week. Installing an extra couple of panels would surely help in not having to run the batteries down to 30% (yes if they are covered in snow they wont make any difference) and as a bonus you might be able to get another week out of them :) I only have two 85Ah batteries, no solar and rely on a B2B to charge them. I have a compressor fridge and still have no power issues after 3 weeks away. Todate I've never ran my batteries down to 30%
 
sparrks said:
Ok , so you charge the batteries fully before leaving home and then rely on the large capacity to get you through the week. Installing an extra couple of panels would surely help in not having to run the batteries down to 30% (yes if they are covered in snow they wont make any difference) and as a bonus you might be able to get another week out of them :) I only have two 85Ah batteries, no solar and rely on a B2B to charge them. I have a compressor fridge and still have no power issues after 3 weeks away. Todate I've never ran my batteries down to 30%
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Wonderful news, Im so glad you are happy with your set up. My wife and i are disabled, we have medical equipment needing to be charged so im on around 70 to 80 amps per day. With your set up, we only need 2 days of no sun and we are looking at A&E. Ill stick with what i have and no need for more solar panels, 150w is good enough. However thanks for your input.
 
samleeds said:
Wonderful news, Im so glad you are happy with your set up. My wife and i are disabled, we have medical equipment needing to be charged so im on around 70 to 80 amps per day. With your set up, we only need 2 days of no sun and we are looking at A&E. Ill stick with what i have and no need for more solar panels, 150w is good enough. However thanks for your input.
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If your setup is so critical then surely extra panels would help along with your back-up genny. As I wrote earlier a large battery bank isn't the dogs gonads without a suitable means of charging. I notice you totally overlooked the point I was trying to make with generation and usage. Anyways, better things to do, I'm pleased that our setups work for us both.
 
samleeds said:
Dont you just love reading posts that spread doom and gloom, generally from people that know very little about the subject in hand. As a former auto electrician, I have no fear about electric or indeed how to use it. Batteries are little more than reservoir for power and it makes no difference how many you have, the draw and usage is the same. A 150w solar panel will drop between 1 to 7 amps into the batts on cloudy or bright days so if the clouds are bad for a week, my 440ah will still be going strong whle john and mary lunchbuckets eco 85ah is as flat as a pancake. How long it takw to charge them up is academic. I stay away for a week so I dont need sun so when i get back home, The hook up from the garage can be used, but if the weathers good, my batts recover from the solar and no vans usage quite well. The inverter is 7000w pure sine wave, because under load, the bigger the more efficient they are and i hardly think anyone would be so stupid to run a 7000w appliance because it would be asking for a melt down. I have a 1000w hair dryer for my wife for 5 mins max. we have a couple of 300w appliances which get used for an hour or so and the rest of the time, its left off. Having something you can use if you want and have no issues, is far better than not having something you need and dont have. 2 weeks ago i spent 6 days with snow on the panel most days and when i got home I was at 30% on the batteries, that meant i used a hell of a lot more electric than a 2 x 110ah bank would have allowed me so job done. In the summer I just let them charge and discharge as the loads permit but I do admit to using the electric kettle and microwave and toaster more often than i should. rant over.
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"Batteries are little more than reservoir for power and it makes no difference how many you have, the draw and usage is the same".
That is not really the case though is it when you are are talking about higher loads.
The greater the load as a percentage of your battery capacity the more you reduce the capacity you actually have. Not sure if the way I have worded that is very clear but as an Auto Electrician I am sure you know what I mean.

As an example for other readers, using your example of a 1000W hairdryer - that is drawing around 80A say while running.
If you had a 100Ah battery it would be using a lot more of the battery capacity then if you had 2 X 100Ah Batteries. If you had 4 X 100Ah batteries it would obviously be less of the total again. But this is the key point ... Having 1 X 100Ah battery you will use much more then twice the capacity then if you had 2 X 100Ah. And same as 4 X 100Ah ... That would use less then half the capacity of 2 X 100Ah batteries. This is what the Cx (time in hours) ratings are about and why if you have a setup that uses regular bursts of high energy, a large battery bank is more efficient and might be worth having even if you don't need that total capacity.
 
wildebus said:
"Batteries are little more than reservoir for power and it makes no difference how many you have, the draw and usage is the same".
That is not really the case though is it when you are are talking about higher loads.
The greater the load as a percentage of your battery capacity the more you reduce the capacity you actually have. Not sure if the way I have worded that is very clear but as an Auto Electrician I am sure you know what I mean.

As an example for other readers, using your example of a 1000W hairdryer - that is drawing around 80A say while running.
If you had a 100Ah battery it would be using a lot more of the battery capacity then if you had 2 X 100Ah Batteries. If you had 4 X 100Ah batteries it would obviously be less of the total again. But this is the key point ... Having 1 X 100Ah battery you will use much more then twice the capacity then if you had 2 X 100Ah. And same as 4 X 100Ah ... That would use less then half the capacity of 2 X 100Ah batteries. This is what the Cx (time in hours) ratings are about and why if you have a setup that uses regular bursts of high energy, a large battery bank is more efficient and might be worth having even if you don't need that total capacity.
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Your post me valid sence and i agree, however there are some people that think the set up they have is the best for all and become experts overnight. Simple truth is that if you need the capacity, you need the volume. My set up is there to aid and assist my usage and negate the need to use back up charging power to replenish the usage for the time we are away. If we were on the road for weeks at a time, i would add another solar panel, but we cant stay away for more than a week and my 440ah copes well, so thats for us, maybe wouldnt work for others, but it does for us. Thanks though.
 
Deliberately running my onboard, LPG to zero to see how accurate the little dashboard LED indicator is but still able to enjoy breakfast, with a couple of fresh coffees and wash up, before I do.
20180326_102532.jpg
Everyones needs are different, so everyones systems may differ. However by chatting and sharing, we are able to see what might be right for our useage.
 
For my purposes, I have a 440Ah battery bank for two reasons ... I don't have any plumbed in gas and all my cooking and water heating is electric (although I do carry a portable gas cooker for outside use and a little 907 cylinder). And electric cooking means short bursts of high power, so spreading the load across multiple batteries means much less strain then sucking up from a small bank. The other problem you can get from drawing too high a percentage is the voltage will drop much more and possibly below an amount the device can operate from.
And as I want to cook (or at least boil water for tea) multiple times a day, I have 400W or solar to help replenish the batteries after each use (and also contribute DURING use).

I don't want any plumbed in gas or applicances and saving I made by not fitting that will have made a significant financial contribution to my electric setup :)
 
In addition to the great and varied opinions, responses and theories given so far, I experienced two of the many positives, yesterday.

The time being nearly upon me to bimble on down to Norfolk, ahead of the forthcoming meet at Whitwell & Reepham, I thought i might have a mooch about the beautiful county that is Norfolk.

Last year I made several trips around the awesome coast and so this visit, I thought I would explore a little inland.

Which brings me to, not one but two great advantages of the solar or other systems, that mean we do not need to be reliant on Electric Hook Up (EHU)

A week (ish) before Easter and I am trying to book a nice, very popular city centre main campsite. I know it is very late in the day and everywhere seems to be fully booked long ago.

Well to many peoples surprise, maybe, I secured my pitch for the eight nights, prior to our meet at Whitwell & Reepham. Why? simply because 90%+ of those visitors on wheels need an Electric Hook Up (EHU) but with the systems, like many have described above, I have no need for such facilities.

I therefore have a last minute pitch on an otherwise fully booked campsite. If this was not enough, I also get my pitch at half price !

I regularly stay on Camping & Caravan Club campsites, as I do many other campsites and think it is great that they halve (ish) the normal pitch rate, if we don't need use of an EHU.

Maybe it would be nice to see EHU free pitches at 50% discount supported and encouraged as a positive environmental initiative, on other clubs. :)
 
I haven't as yet stayed in any official campsites (although I have joined the C&CC).
I thought it was a case of you paid extra to have hookup on all sites?
Is it actually the case that hookup is built into the cost typically and you get it whether you want it or not then?
EXCEPT for the C&CC which does actually separate the EHU price from the Pitch price?
 
It is a separate option on there phone app or website, you simply select a Non Electric pitch.

Generally, in my experience, this can be as cheap as £8 a night. Meaning Toilet Disposal, Added Security, Showers, Toilets etc... cheaper that a Pub Stop.

I travel alone in my campervan but love going for nice, long walks. I am happy to bimble for 12 hours and more miles, so it is nice to leave my campervan on a site and return to a nice hot shower, with enough water to not to need to worry about campervan conservation, if you know what i mean.

Just seems a nice option
 
Ed on Toast said:
It is a separate option on there phone app or website, you simply select a Non Electric pitch.

Generally, in my experience, this can be as cheap as £8 a night. Meaning Toilet Disposal, Added Security, Showers, Toilets etc... cheaper that a Pub Stop.

I travel alone in my campervan but love going for nice, long walks. I am happy to bimble for 12 hours and more miles, so it is nice to leave my campervan on a site and return to a nice hot shower, with enough water to not to need to worry about campervan conservation, if you know what i mean.

Just seems a nice option
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Sounds good :)
I don't need hookup but I joined the C&CC to get access to toilet & showers. So while I'm NOT a walker, the scenario you describe works for me :D
 
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