The Ups & Downs in the Life of a Battery

[Ed on Toast]

Ah yes true, but you can achieve the same with a gas cooker and it's probably more energy efficient.

This is very true but the system i have fitted, turns solar into 240 volts, through witchcraft and black magic boxes and so, at least from my perspective, totally free, after the cost of the system and occasional replacement parts. Which is really the whole point of me asking my learned fellow members for their advice and opinions.

As Chainsaw Charlie and myself have already seen, the same manufacturers website can bear contradictory information, so a open and respectful debate on here, might throw up some food for thought.

What we might think, on the surface is a hard science, is clearly not. If this was the case then there would simply not be some many variants.

With so many variables, there are then multiple variants and therefore what best fits one member, might not another.

It should never be about proving ourselves right, at the expense of others, as others might but sharing, discussing and developing a conscientious that benefits us all and from time to time we might break new ground.

I can't think of a single member of Wild Camping that I have met and chatted to or chatted on-line with that I have not been able to take something positive from. Okay, some maybe great solutions, while others problems for me to ponder on or discuss with others but everyone has been a benefit.

Maybe thoughts could also include what to do when Icarus is 105?

 

[Admin]

This is very true but the system i have fitted, turns solar into 240 volts, through witchcraft and black magic boxes and so, at least from my perspective, totally free, after the cost of the system and occasional replacement parts. Which is really the whole point of me asking my learned fellow members for their advice and opinions.

As Chainsaw Charlie and myself have already seen, the same manufacturers website can bear contradictory information, so a open and respectful debate on here, might throw up some food for thought.

What we might think, on the surface is a hard science, is clearly not. If this was the case then there would simply not be some many variants.

With so many variables, there are then multiple variants and therefore what best fits one member, might not another.

It should never be about proving ourselves right, at the expense of others, as others might but sharing, discussing and developing a conscientious that benefits us all and from time to time we might break new ground.

I can't think of a single member of Wild Camping that I have met and chatted to or chatted on-line with that I have not been able to take something positive from. Okay, some maybe great solutions, while others problems for me to ponder on or discuss with others but everyone has been a benefit.

Maybe thoughts could also include what to do when Icarus is 105?

You will have to excuse me launching into this debate to defend Gel Carbon Batteries. The reason is that people do read these threads and do make decisions based on the information in them. The information about early gel batteries is correct, but it is not correct about modern gel carbon batteries. I have had now had to do this several times on this forum.

So I apologise if I have offended anyone.

I have fitted banks of these batteries in several vans now and other wild camping members also have them. The feedback I get is that they are very happy with their batteries and that they are very pleased with the purchase.

When I first decided to recommend these batteries I contacted Exide and eventually spoke to a technical chap in Germany. He gave me all the correct charging voltages for the batteries and I ask him about the expected life at different discharges. I was told that the batteries are engineered for deep 80% cycles and that they would withstand this for 600-700 FULL cycles. He also said that batteries with lower DOD level would last a lot longer even 2000 cycles at 30% - 40% DOD. There are lots of posts on the canal boat forums where these batteries are wildly used reporting up to 15-year lifespans!

I think that in the future I am no longer going to offer technical advice on the forum and just stay as referee/caretaker. That way members will be able to debate the issues without wanting to upset Admin.

 

[edina]

I think that in the future I am no longer going to offer technical advice on the forum and just stay as referee/caretaker. That way members will be able to debate the issues without wanting to upset Admin.

Don't you dare!
You've helped loads of members, me included, with your knowledge and experience and you know better than most, that you will never get some of the old die-hards to change their ideas or accept new technology.

 

[Deleted user 48797]

This is very true but the system i have fitted, turns solar into 240 volts, through witchcraft and black magic boxes and so, at least from my perspective, totally free, after the cost of the system and occasional replacement parts. Which is really the whole point of me asking my learned fellow members for their advice and opinions.

As Chainsaw Charlie and myself have already seen, the same manufacturers website can bear contradictory information, so a open and respectful debate on here, might throw up some food for thought.

What we might think, on the surface is a hard science, is clearly not. If this was the case then there would simply not be some many variants.

With so many variables, there are then multiple variants and therefore what best fits one member, might not another.

It should never be about proving ourselves right, at the expense of others, as others might but sharing, discussing and developing a conscientious that benefits us all and from time to time we might break new ground.

I can't think of a single member of Wild Camping that I have met and chatted to or chatted on-line with that I have not been able to take something positive from. Okay, some maybe great solutions, while others problems for me to ponder on or discuss with others but everyone has been a benefit.

Maybe thoughts could also include what to do when Icarus is 105?

I applaud your move to embrace technology that provides for your needs. I am seriously considering the replacement of my 2 leisure batteries with a lithium type to save weight. However if your van needs a gas supply that you have to carry then to take 12v and turn it into 240v, with all the associated losses, then heat an element buried in a cast iron hotplate seems extravagant just to cook breakfast. If your van was gas free then I applaud you for getting something for nothing but otherwise I'm not convinced... but each to their own and I hope you enjoy your investment.
Regards.

 

[Ed on Toast]

You will have to excuse me launching into this debate to defend Gel Carbon Batteries. The reason is that people do read these threads and do make decisions based on the information in them. The information about early gel batteries is correct, but it is not correct about modern gel carbon batteries. I have had now had to do this several times on this forum.

So I apologise if I have offended anyone.

I have fitted banks of these batteries in several vans now and other wild camping members also have them. The feedback I get is that they are very happy with their batteries and that they are very pleased with the purchase.

When I first decided to recommend these batteries I contacted Exide and eventually spoke to a technical chap in Germany. He gave me all the correct charging voltages for the batteries and I ask him about the expected life at different discharges. I was told that the batteries are engineered for deep 80% cycles and that they would withstand this for 600-700 FULL cycles. He also said that batteries with lower DOD level would last a lot longer even 2000 cycles at 30% - 40% DOD. There are lots of posts on the canal boat forums where these batteries are wildly used reporting up to 15-year lifespans!

I think that in the future I am no longer going to offer technical advice on the forum and just stay as referee/caretaker. That way members will be able to debate the issues without wanting to upset Admin.

I think you have launched into something that had no reference to you or your input.

Try taking a breath and re-read what was actually posted and we can all continue to benefit from your obvious accurate depth of knowledge.

:dance:

 

[Ed on Toast]

Bigusdickus,

I guess you are right, I do use solar for breakfast, while i carry gas for other uses.

I need electricity for other uses such at lighting, moving warm air about, charging various devices, such as this very laptop and cutting my air! First sign of insanity, don't ya know.

Gas, on the other hand has aux roles, generating the heat for my the blown air heating system, producing large qualities of hot water (showers etc...) and feeding the gas BBQ, which I love and here gas cost reduces from up to £9.98 down to about 27p for 1/2 litre.

but my solar system is full most of the day and so with no more capacity to store it, most solar is not actually captured.

So cooking breakfast (Kettle, Toaster and Microwave) with 240 volts seems to be fair logical use of existing resources.

I am currently moving over to rechargeable batteries, instead of disposable ones but other than carrying more storage batteries (not really viable) I am out of areas to improve, or am I ?

Are there other areas that could direct this power to?

I currently carry up to 150 litres of fresh and 150 litres of grey (max capacity of each) maybe something in that area ?


Any thoughts?

 

[Admin]

Using solar energy to cook breakfast instead of burning fossil fuels is a noble deed in my opinion.

My van has been installed with 525watts of solar panels to convert the free clean energy from the sun into electrical energy. I then have large efficient batteries to store the energy until I need to use it.

Once my batteries are fully bulk charged, my electrical system diverts some of the power and switches my fridge over to 12v to burn less fossil fuel.

Hopefully, before the summer is over I hope to have set up my electrical system to heat my hot water automatically from the solar energy before switching to the fridge.

And finally, my electrical system is already enabled to grid feed (push electricity back down my hookup cable) any spare energy to provide green energy to the national grid.

I love this concept, it may only be a small eco-friendly gesture, but can you imagine if we all did it?


Right now, in March, in Scotland, my panels are producing 325 watts of free clean energy.

 

[Nabsim]

I like these threads and this forum as the discussions will often show something different to what others may have. Just because someone is almost entirely gas and another electric it doesn't matter, they are just alternatives and has been said what is right for one may not be for another.

The mh I have bought looks like it is turning out to be set up to use little gas although I am still finding out how it all works. I don't yet have solar but I do intend getting it fitted later this year so discussions on different setups helps me with different areas to look at. I do tend to think like Trev in regard to the Bosch/Varta batteries and that is probably the way I will go as I need replacements but cost comes into it for me as well as performance. If anyone has links to independent testing of any of the stuff mentioned, (battery or solar) it would be useful when links are added in these discussions, at least it would for me haha

Anyway nobody should 'not post' for any reason if they have something to say, you guys have an awful lot of knowledge and it is good to be different so keep it coming

 

[Ed on Toast]

Now we are talking, so with a 20 year old campervan, would I be able to automatically push that, as yet unused solar created electricity into the 12 volt feed to my fridge, as and when it is spare capacity.

how will it control the on/off of the gas?

I there some special techie additional equipment needed?

Will it work for my older fridge ?


So, So SO many questions. This is what threads are about.

I was not thinking about heating the shower water from scratch but I have considered pumping it up to the roof for some degree of rewarming.



Yes, my engine is diesel but surly it is about reducing the environmental impact elsewhere where reasonably practicable, isn't it?

 

[wildebus]

I applaud your move to embrace technology that provides for your needs. I am seriously considering the replacement of my 2 leisure batteries with a lithium type to save weight. However if your van needs a gas supply that you have to carry then to take 12v and turn it into 240v, with all the associated losses, then heat an element buried in a cast iron hotplate seems extravagant just to cook breakfast. If your van was gas free then I applaud you for getting something for nothing but otherwise I'm not convinced... but each to their own and I hope you enjoy your investment.
Regards.

Switching from old-fashioned cast iron hotplate to an induction hob would eliminate a lot of those losses you describe.
Plus ... the energy looses from heat used when burning on a naked flame is am sure likely greater then the associated energy looses suffered converting 12V to 240V. (plus switching from gas to induction helps cut down on increasing the interior van temperature when cooking, so reduces power use from a cooling fan)

Something to ponder there? :beer:

 

[Deleted user 48797]

As an aside.....Dr Karl (look him up) says that the sun projects energy on the surface of the earth at the rate of 1kw per square metre - the challenge to us all is to find a way of storing this for when it's needed so at least you're making a start.

 

[sparrks]

I love your thinking, but hate to point out you are driving around in a stinking wretched vile , putrid fossil fuel burning pile of petrochemical produced plastic ,not forgetting all the other resources used in it's production :lol-049:
When I see you in a natural fibre tent with wooden poles growing your own food I will be impressed :lol-049:

We are all doing that but Admin is limiting his day to day pollution further still, Will it make a difference? no, but it won't hurt either.

 

[Trotter]

Switching from old-fashioned cast iron hotplate to an induction hob would eliminate a lot of those losses you describe.

Not if you wear a pacemaker. You'd go giddy, fall over and be in no fit state to eat your tea, let alone have breakfast. I suppose it wouldn't go to waste if the Ambulance crew ate it. Just a thought!
Dadad

 

[wildebus]

Not if you wear a pacemaker. You'd go giddy, fall over and be in no fit state to eat your tea, let alone have breakfast. I suppose it wouldn't go to waste if the Ambulance crew ate it. Just a thought!
Dadad

Good Point. But how many people have to consider that? a small percentage I bet

and anyhoes, I don't pasa de maker when I maker ma dinna, I prefera da chippies (and anyone with a Pacemaker will not get any I guess )

 

[trevskoda]

You will have to excuse me launching into this debate to defend Gel Carbon Batteries. The reason is that people do read these threads and do make decisions based on the information in them. The information about early gel batteries is correct, but it is not correct about modern gel carbon batteries. I have had now had to do this several times on this forum.

So I apologise if I have offended anyone.

I have fitted banks of these batteries in several vans now and other wild camping members also have them. The feedback I get is that they are very happy with their batteries and that they are very pleased with the purchase.

When I first decided to recommend these batteries I contacted Exide and eventually spoke to a technical chap in Germany. He gave me all the correct charging voltages for the batteries and I ask him about the expected life at different discharges. I was told that the batteries are engineered for deep 80% cycles and that they would withstand this for 600-700 FULL cycles. He also said that batteries with lower DOD level would last a lot longer even 2000 cycles at 30% - 40% DOD. There are lots of posts on the canal boat forums where these batteries are wildly used reporting up to 15-year lifespans!

I think that in the future I am no longer going to offer technical advice on the forum and just stay as referee/caretaker. That way members will be able to debate the issues without wanting to upset Admin.

No we require your info on charging and batterys,i do know things change faster than my brain allows,keep up the good work.

 

[Nabsim]

As induction hobs have been mentioned I have another two questions, (would usually google first but seems I dont know a lot of the right terms yet for mh stuff)
1. can you get 12 volt induction or would you need invertor/ehu?
2. can you get an induction oven?

Not really sure I want the answers though as I am still struggling to come to terms with a fridge can be a grand or more

 

[trevskoda]

As induction hobs have been mentioned I have another two questions, (would usually google first but seems I dont know a lot of the right terms yet for mh stuff)
1. can you get 12 volt induction or would you need invertor/ehu?
2. can you get an induction oven?

Not really sure I want the answers though as I am still struggling to come to terms with a fridge can be a grand or more

inverter/ehu 230v only

 

[wildebus]

As induction hobs have been mentioned I have another two questions, (would usually google first but seems I dont know a lot of the right terms yet for mh stuff)
1. can you get 12 volt induction or would you need invertor/ehu?
2. can you get an induction oven?

Not really sure I want the answers though as I am still struggling to come to terms with a fridge can be a grand or more

To follow on from Trevs reply, Inverter should be Pure Sine Wave.

And I am sure answer to point 2 is No, as they work on Magnetism (which is why aluminium pans won't work on them)

 

[trevskoda]

To follow on from Trevs reply, Inverter should be Pure Sine Wave.

And I am sure answer to point 2 is No, as they work on Magnetism (which is why aluminium pans won't work on them)

Correct and also a full earth type full insulated transformer and not el cheapo.

 

[barlicker]

I think you have launched into something that had no reference to you or your input.

Try taking a breath and re-read what was actually posted and we can all continue to benefit from your obvious accurate depth of knowledge.

:dance:

The question was about gel batteries not carbon gel which is a different subject altogether, however battery design is moving on quite rapidly now and not before time. Within the next 3 to 4 years and without the oil industries intervention we will see a rapid rise in battery use and innovation.