SORNing your vehicle whilst on a campsite.

[Tezza33]

Yes - and that is precisely why I emphasised the need to check your insurance details. If others regard that as "negative advice" then so be it. Personally I think it is very sensible advice - but, then, I would because I gave it! :dance:

Where did I say anything about negative advice, I thought the comments about saving money was negative, advising people to check if it invalidated their insurance isn't negative and my comment was not directed at you

 

[John H]

But, as stated above, a private campsite to which the public have access is technically subject to the same rules as if you are parked on the road. In practice, I shouldn't think anyone has been prosecuted but it is the rule and by breaking it you MAY find that your insurance is invalidated. So anybody considering SORNing on a campsite should be aware that there might be dangers.

 

[snowbirds]

What about insurance

Hi David,

How do Insurance company's feel about no tax,are you covered if you Sorn your motorhome on your drive or private land.

Snowbirds.

 

[John H]

For the avoidance of doubt - Insure your car

Whether or not your insurance company will accept you keeping it on a private drive and SORNed is a matter that you will have to take up with them.

 

[John H]

EU regulations state that the vehicle must be taxed and insured according to the rules of the home country. Plus, I assume, most Brits will have their vehicles insured with British companies.

 

[John H]

The question I was answering was "is the vehicle insured if it is on private land and SORNed?" I repeat - that is something you will have to take up with your insurance company because there is no blanket answer.

 

[John H]

Eh? If the insurer says that your vehicle has to be taxed at all times for your vehicle to be insured then you are not insured if you SORN it! And the clause about third party fire and theft is dependent, like all other clauses, on your vehicle complying with the law. I repeat, technically a campsite is a public place - even a private one - and so they would have a perfectly legal let-out if they chose to enforce it.

 

[John H]

You are not reading what I am saying. Different insurers impose different conditions. It is POSSIBLE that an insurer might insist on the vehicle being taxed for the policy to apply. Similarly, that Insurance Company might insist that the vehicle has to be taxed all the time it is on a foreign campsite. It is not a legal matter; it is a matter of whether or not the Insurance Company will pay out in the event of an accident, fire or theft. Thus people need to check. The point is a very simple and logical one - why are you trying to cloud the issue?

 

[Tezza33]

Saga advised me to make sure I had a valid MOT even on my own driveway when I enquired about this a few years ago when the 'continuous insurance enforcement’ became law, it is written in my policy that it must have one so no argument there because even if they paid out it would be a reduced payment, they advised it was better with a high value vehicle to keep it insured if it was SORN although legally you don't have to, they said I was fully covered without tax when I had SORN it, I would still check with yours though

 

[John H]

My comments related to the original question - SORNing your vehicle whilst on a campsite. Many people do not realise that a campsite is classified as a highway to which the public have access. Thus it would be entirely feasible for an Insurance Company to invalidate a policy because the vehicle was not properly taxed.

 

[maxi77]

Different countries apply the rules differently, so whether an effectively untaxed car is legal under all circumstances is an interesting point.Certainly the GNR here in Portugal are not that interested as far as I can see but the financial police may be interested in how long it has been here. As for insurance it is simply a contract between you and the insurer, break his conditions and the contract is broken, irrespective of the risks covered. Minimum legal requirements will only be covered as long as the contract is complied with. If they say the car must be taxed then it must to continue the cover, though they may well be happy to extend it to untaxed cover if you ask and they are happy with the place it is stored.

 

[El Veterano]

On my insurance document (Safeguard) it clearly states that the insured vehicle must be taxed at all times for it to remain insured, there was no reference to SORN. So I asked them (Safeguard) the question the other week, and yes, the vehicle is still insured whilst under SORN, I have that in writing from them. However, I only asked if this was the case for when it is parked in its secure CasSoa Gold compound (which is part of a campsite as it happens). So if it were to be parked elsewhere I would advise you to check with your insurer.
I am never going to be on a campsite in Benidorm for 3 months, so that part of the question doesn't really apply to me, but I cannot see how it would matter a jot to an insurance company whether a vehicle is taxed or SORN'd - so long as it is NOT being used on a public highway, here in the UK or abroad whilst it is under SORN. And I cannot accept that your personal pitch on a campsite with an entrance barrier on the Costa del Sol, is a public highway.
One thing is for certain though is the fact that you will definitely NOT be insured if you have no MOT.

 

[John H]

And I cannot accept that your personal pitch on a campsite with a entrance barrier on the Costa del Sol, is a public highway.

It is not a question of whether you accept it or not; it is whether or not that is what the law says.

 

[John H]

Oh dear, oh dear. There are two points here - both of which you consistently ignore because you have no answer to them:

1. The law says that private land to which the public have access ( and that includes campsites) counts as the highway for purposes of road traffic offences

2. As far as Insurance companies are concerned (and that is the point at issue) it matters not a jot what the law says about SORNing a vehicle; what matters is what their contract with you says. You really must try to live in the real world.

 

[Tezza33]

On my insurance document (Safeguard) it clearly states that the insured vehicle must be taxed at all times for it to remain insured, there was no reference to SORN. So I asked them (Safeguard) the question the other week, and yes, the vehicle is still insured whilst under SORN, I have that in writing from them. However, I only asked if this was the case for when it is parked in its secure CasSoa Gold compound (which is part of a campsite as it happens). So if it were to be parked elsewhere I would advise you to check with your insurer.
I am never going to be on a campsite in Benidorm for 3 months, so that part of the question doesn't really apply to me, but I cannot see how it would matter a jot to an insurance company whether a vehicle is taxed or SORN'd - so long as it is NOT being used on a public highway, here in the UK or abroad whilst it is under SORN. And I cannot accept that your personal pitch on a campsite with a entrance barrier on the Costa del Sol, is a public highway.
One thing is for certain though is the fact that you will definitely NOT be insured if you have no MOT.

It sounds very similar to the answer I got, personally while I think it is prudent to check if it doesn't say on your Policy that you have to be taxed I don't see it making a difference, the Insurance Ombudsman will look at decisions if you complain and they have a policy of if it doesn't affect your risk they will side with you if the law allows it, how can a van parked on a campsite without VED be more of a risk than one that has it, driving illegally on the road can be considered different because the 'illegal' bit gives a loophole but as I never knowingly do that it doesn't concern me:angel:

 

[El Veterano]

It is not a question of whether you accept it or not; it is whether or not that is what the law says.

Agreed, but if it is private property, and the fact that there is a barrier would imply this, then it is private property and there is no right of access to anybody other than those the owners wish to allow. ie paying campers.

 

[John H]

Agreed, but if it is private property, and the fact that there is a barrier would imply this, then it is private property and there is no right of access to anybody other than those the owners wish to allow. ie paying campers.

What is a 'road'? « Scroll to the bottom - caravan parks are designated to be places to which the public have access and are therefore "roads" within the meaning of the law. People may not like it; people may think it is illogical; people may think it is nonsense - but it IS the law.

 

[Tezza33]

What is a 'road'? « Scroll to the bottom - caravan parks are designated to be places to which the public have access and are therefore "roads" within the meaning of the law. People may not like it; people may think it is illogical; people may think it is nonsense - but it IS the law.

I fully understand what you are saying but just as the road outside my house has public access my drive doesn't, if I am on a campsite the public have access to the road alongside my pitch but not on my pitch so surely that is the difference, that is where the SORN vehicle is parked so in my opinion that is not a place with public access

 

[iveco4x4]

Lets not call it a campsite

Lets call it a carpark.

You pay your money and you get to park there. Now you would expect your vehicle to be insured even when in a carpark, and for the road traffic act to apply (ie.no drink driving)

My camper is sorned at present, but insured and MOT'd and parked on my land at the back of the house

My view is that sorning for 1 month is a waste of time, You'll end up with multiple DD's and it will go wrong, the flexibility isn't that flexible.

If its parked up for 6 months then it might be worth the saving but is it worth the potential hassle with local plod

Rich

 

[John H]

I fully understand what you are saying but just as the road outside my house has public access my drive doesn't, if I am on a campsite the public have access to the road alongside my pitch but not on my pitch so surely that is the difference, that is where the SORN vehicle is parked so in my opinion that is not a place with public access

The law says your drive is not a public highway but a campsite is. I repeat - you may think that is illogical but it IS the law. You are free to make whatever decision you wish but it pays to be aware of the potential consequences. I have never fallen foul of the law in this respect - because I am always prepared. If you choose to defy the law you may get away with it - or you may not. It is up to you; I know what advice I will always give. With the greatest possible respect, your opinion (and mine!) is irrelevant - what we are talking about here is the legal situation.