Scotland road saftey limits

[colinm]

Could it be that Germans call the MIRO "unladen weight" while we don't?

It could be the translation or it might be they use different definitions.

 

[barryd]

Apparently my Renault Master has a payload of 1377kg according to the spec listed in the Parkers guide - which is reassuring.

Ah but is that before you turn it into a campervan Rob and put you and all your stuff in it? Pretty good amount though. I wonder if the construction of motorhomes changed in recent years as some of the larger ones went from having pretty naff payloads up to pretty generous amounts. Some of the newer and larger Swifts for example are up to 1000kg payload including my Esprit (which is coming up nine years old I think) but if you look at the payload of the mid 2000s Kontikis etc and other makes even on the 4250kg chassis they were pitiful. 500kg or less on some. I do know they stopped putting timber in the frames and using single aluminium skins and some other tech bollox I can never remember the name of. Maybe it was that. Its why I hung onto Hank the tank the old Kontiki so long.

 

[Robmac]

Ah but is that before you turn it into a campervan Rob and put you and all your stuff in it? Pretty good amount though. I wonder if the construction of motorhomes changed in recent years as some of the larger ones went from having pretty naff payloads up to pretty generous amounts. Some of the newer and larger Swifts for example are up to 1000kg payload including my Esprit (which is coming up nine years old I think) but if you look at the payload of the mid 2000s Kontikis etc and other makes even on the 4250kg chassis they were pitiful. 500kg or less on some. I do know they stopped putting timber in the frames and using single aluminium skins and some other tech bollox I can never remember the name of. Maybe it was that. Its why I hung onto Hank the tank the old Kontiki so long.

I think for the purposes of speed limits Barry they would have to go by the listed specification of the vehicle.

I've just checked my V5 and it states a Mass in Service weight of 2085kg and that would include the weight at which the van left the factory and allowing for a 75kg driver and 90% fuel, so even better than I thought.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I'm pretty sure I checked and my unladen weight is above 3.05t. I just drive it around at the same limits as my car. Never had a ticket so far. How would they know?

APNR

 

[barryd]

I think for the purposes of speed limits Barry they would have to go by the listed specification of the vehicle.

I've just checked my V5 and it states a Mass in Service weight of 2085kg and that would include the weight at which the van left the factory and allowing for a 75kg driver, so even better than I thought.

Its not something I am going to worry about. I Reckon the chances of getting done in a motorhome for doing say 55 in a 60 A road are next to zero and the same applies on a duel carriageway doing 65 in a 70 perhaps and on a motorway I would stick around 70 mph anyway which of course is legal. I might have to watch my heavy right foot in France though as their rules have got bonkers since I was last there and they do like their speed cameras.

 

[barryd]

APNR

Hmm. Only if its also linked to a database that knows or cares and only if its a camera that is rigged to identify specific vehicle weights and classes and not just a mobile camera set to go off if you are over a certain speed.

 

[Robmac]

No it’s not on your V5 Barry.


No, unladen weight is not listed on a vehicle's V5 registration document, but it can be found on the vehicle itself:

It's on my V5 Bill (Mass in service).

 

[Pudsey Bear]

ANPR is linked into a control center, who have access to the insurance database, DVLA, Vosa etc who advise the nearest patrol car if it is a sus vehicle, ANPR cameras are all over the place now, mostly on bridges but traffic cars have them

 

[colinm]

I think for the purposes of speed limits Barry they would have to go by the listed specification of the vehicle.

I've just checked my V5 and it states a Mass in Service weight of 2085kg and that would include the weight at which the van left the factory and allowing for a 75kg driver and 90% fuel, so even better than I thought.

The listed specification is for a panel van, if you have changed it to a motorcaravan, or van with windows, that will have changed.

 

[colinm]

It's on my V5 Bill (Mass in service).

how many times has this been discussed on here, Mass in service is not the unladen weight.

 

[Robmac]

how many times has this been discussed on here, Mass in service is not the unladen weight.

Then can you tell me what the difference is then please?

 

[barryd]

ANPR is linked into a control center, who have access to the insurance database, DVLA, Vosa etc who advise the nearest patrol car if it is a sus vehicle, ANPR cameras are all over the place now, mostly on bridges but traffic cars have them

Yes I know that but the question is which of these cameras are picking up on vehicle size and weight and what are they basing it on? I think Colin said it will be on the taxation class in Private HGV in my case but that cant be right as according to the government website its based on the maximum unladen weight which it seems is a bit of grey area as to if its recorded anywhere or not. So you could have a Private hgv motorhome but it still might have an unladen weight of under 3.05t. Mine wont be I dont think though. Dunno.

Having said that after doing some searching about (can you tell I have nothing better to do ) it seems there are a few instances of motorhomes being done for a lower speed as it flagged up as a commercial vehicle (Van) when they shouldn't have been. My head hurts. Im off to start a gassing thread.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

 

[mark61]

That is where things can get complicated. If you have converted a commercial and re registered as a Motor caravan, there is no way the mass in service can be the same weight.
The mass in service would have to include the items that allow it to be registered as as a Motor Caravan.

 

[mark61]

Then can you tell me what the difference is then please?

Unladen excludes some items, fuel being one of them, and in an electric vehicle the battery.
Mass in service doesn't.

Yes, I know the next logical question.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Yes I know that but the question is which of these cameras are picking up on vehicle size and weight and what are they basing it on? I think Colin said it will be on the taxation class in Private HGV in my case but that cant be right as according to the government website its based on the maximum unladen weight which it seems is a bit of grey area as to if its recorded anywhere or not. So you could have a Private hgv motorhome but it still might have an unladen weight of under 3.05t. Mine wont be I dont think though. Dunno.

Having said that after doing some searching about (can you tell I have nothing better to do ) it seems there are a few instances of motorhomes being done for a lower speed as it flagged up as a commercial vehicle (Van) when they shouldn't have been. My head hurts. Im off to start a gassing thread.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

None of them, I think it's a bit of a red herring TBH, unless you are caught in a misdemeanour or a collision etc it won't crop up, and even then as said there doesn't appear to be any way to tell the ULW unless it is on the data plate or elsewhere on the van.

Google AI

 

[Robmac]

Unladen excludes some items, fuel being one of them, and in an electric vehicle the battery.
Mass in service doesn't.

Yes, I know the next logical question.

This explains it.

Vehicle weights explained

Explanations of the different terms you might see on your driving licence

www.gov.uk

Still confusing though.

 

[mark61]

None of them, I think it's a bit of a red herring TBH, unless you are caught in a misdemeanour or a collision etc it won't crop up, and even then as said there doesn't appear to be any way to tell the ULW unless it is on the data plate or elsewhere on the van.

Google AI

View attachment 138440

A mate got it all wrong when she used AI to see out how much it would cost to bring her old VW T3 into London.

I got it right by going to the TFL site. The difference was a few £100.

There may well be a lesson there.

 

[colinm]

Then can you tell me what the difference is then please?

Geoff's post #33

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Yes you do have to look proplerly.

 

[colinm]

A mate got it all wrong when she used AI to see out how much it would cost to bring her old VW T3 into London.

I got it right by going to the TFL site. The difference was a few £100.

There may well be a lesson there.

Ain't Artificial Ignorance a wonderful thing.