Pros and Cons of Fulltiming

[n brown]

oh i'm with you all on the houses thing,and this was my life- working on other people's. but without the desire to ever own one. i've lived in them of course,had crap neighbours,disputes over parking and apple trees - and then moved on. but fair play to those willing to do it,a very British thing,not quite embraced by most europeans

 

[Channa]

Maslow's theory at work ??

Last few pages, I find interesting, reasons for not going Full Time and one or two reasons for doing so. The concerns etc.

I think we are psychologically conditioned from a young age, even to it is the expectations of gender. We also become socially conditioned. Expectations to get a good job etc buy a house.

So using Maslow's model, as we reach the top of his triangle, to uproots and full time we perceive as dropping down a couple of rungs, with worry we could be at the bottom again.

Perhaps it explains why people like myself and NZ found it easier because circumstances of a divorce separation etc slip us down the pyramid.

Of course it is a shifting sand.

Worthy of a think over a coffee



Channa

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Goodmorning Gang.
I was thinking last night if there was a Competent Author, who could Compile, Edit & Tidy up this Thread & add in a Cpl of other comments from other boards in to what could then be a BRILLIANT
' INTRODUCTION TO THE PROs & CONs OF VEHICLE LIFE' Guide or Book for someone contemplating This Lifestyle !. It's something I would Buy as an 'E Book',,,,Maybe Admin could Take the Royaltys to help with the site !.
Well done People, Keep it up.

As suggested earlier, Anyone got some Negative Truths of the lifestyle & From Vehicle back to Bricks comparisons !.

 

[Nesting Zombie]

HOUSES,
Well, By now I think that Most can tell, I'm NOT a fan of Houses & have my own reasons for my Lifestyle choice, But that aside I just couldn't afford a House ! My reasoning is this.
AND PLEASE NOTE IM GUESSING AS IF DOING IT NOW, NOT 10 years or so ago !
When Buying You need Say £15,000 to cover initial Purchase & Legal fees etc.
Then Moving in & immediate Essential must have item Costs Say £1,500.
Then The sensible course would be to have at least a Cpl of month's Emergency money put aside Say £3,000.
Right YOURE IN for around the £20,000 mark !
In order to earn this money You have to Buy a Vehicle Say £3,000 for a decent ish reliable Vehicle.
SO THATS A LUMP SUM OF SAY £23,000 GONE,
& NOW THE EVER CONSTANT MONTHLY WORRY OF EARNING ENOUGH TO KEEP IT CAN START FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS.

Then the Monthly Stuff like
Vehicle Tax, Ins, MOT, Ware, Tare N Servicing, Occasional new Tyre etc at say £100 a Month.
Fuel for the vehicle To get to and from Work at say £50 a month.
The Mortgage lets just say £800 a month as a figure
Gas, Electric, Council Tax, Water/Sewage Monthly Bills of say £300.
Then the Maintenance, Replacement & Rainy Day Fund at say £150 a month.
Then the House Improvement for Decorating, Porch, Conservatory, New flooring, New TV treat, Shed for the Garden or what have you of Say £100 a month.
Then Because you Work Hard You Deserve a Holiday Or a cple of Breaks a year SO lets say £150 a month.
I think ime up to around the £1,700 ish mark so far of OUT GOINGS a month to be taken from any TAKE HOME PAY & I haven't Eaten OR had a Drink !.

Then of course Depending on the type of Job you might have to Buy Certain Suits, Vehicle Parking Permits, Dresses, The Latest or better Phone, Laptop or Tablet or bits for appearance or efficiency sake or just have stuff like Favoured working clothes Boots Or items that you wouldn't otherwise need to purchase if not in that environment so a consideration should be made for this.

If you are Lucky enough to Have a Partner Then they might decide to Work to Help out with the costs, at the detriment of The quality of your Home time together, BUT again depending on the job This 'MIGHT' also have costs ADDED to the above Monthly Outgoings, Such as an additional Vehicle & the associated costs. Possible Work Appearance & Efficiency costs like Phones etc. Extra Holiday Costs and so on. But that aside, At least you will be able to EAT & have a Bottle of wine occasionally. Some might think its all worth it for the 2 or so hrs of Quality time that would then spend together in the evenings Before they then go to bed Knackered and not really done anything with there day other than work, it then gives time for them to have a sleepless night Worrying where the money will come from to pay the bills if one of them Broke a Leg or The Car Blew up. Or Wonder just WHO actually lives next door or Opposite !. Hope they don't Block My Drive way in the Morning, WHO is making that BLXXDY racket ?, OH NO,,,Is that Drugs I can smell !.

My figures May be way out, But its a start for Debate Purposes

 

[Asterix]

HOUSES,
Well, By now I think that Most can tell, I'm NOT a fan of Houses & have my own reasons for my Lifestyle choice, But that aside I just couldn't afford a House ! My reasoning is this.
AND PLEASE NOTE IM GUESSING AS IF DOING IT NOW, NOT 10 years or so ago !
When Buying You need Say £15,000 to cover initial Purchase & Legal fees etc.
Then Moving in & immediate Essential must have item Costs Say £1,500.
Then The sensible course would be to have at least a Cpl of month's Emergency money put aside Say £3,000.
Right YOURE IN for around the £20,000 mark !
In order to earn this money You have to Buy a Vehicle Say £3,000 for a decent ish reliable Vehicle.
SO THATS A LUMP SUM OF SAY £23,000 GONE,
& NOW THE EVER CONSTANT MONTHLY WORRY OF EARNING ENOUGH TO KEEP IT CAN START FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS.

Then the Monthly Stuff like
Vehicle Tax, Ins, MOT, Ware, Tare N Servicing, Occasional new Tyre etc at say £100 a Month.
Fuel for the vehicle To get to and from Work at say £50 a month.
The Mortgage lets just say £800 a month as a figure
Gas, Electric, Council Tax, Water/Sewage Monthly Bills of say £300.
Then the Maintenance, Replacement & Rainy Day Fund at say £150 a month.
Then the House Improvement for Decorating, Porch, Conservatory, New flooring, New TV treat, Shed for the Garden or what have you of Say £100 a month.
Then Because you Work Hard You Deserve a Holiday Or a cple of Breaks a year SO lets say £150 a month.
I think ime up to around the £1,700 ish mark so far of OUT GOINGS a month to be taken from any TAKE HOME PAY & I haven't Eaten OR had a Drink !.

Then of course Depending on the type of Job you might have to Buy Certain Suits, Dresses, Latest or better Phone, Laptop or Tablet or bits for appearance or efficiency sake or just have stuff like Favoured working clothes Boots Or items that you wouldn't otherwise need to purchase if not in that environment so a consideration should be made for this.

If you are Lucky enough to Have a Partner Then they might decide to Work to Help out with the costs, at the detriment of there Home time together, BUT This 'MIGHT' also have costs ADDED to the above Monthly Outgoings, Such as an additional Vehicle & the associated costs. Possible Work Appearance & Efficiency costs etc. But that aside, Some might think its all worth it for the 2 or so hrs of Quality time that would then spend together in the evenings Before going to bed Knackered, it then gives time for them to have a sleepless night Worrying where the money will come from to pay the bills if one of them Broke a Leg or The Car Blew up.

My figures May be way out, But its a start for Debate Purposes

I've never owned or wanted to own a house (or anchor as I refer to them) for most of the reasons you've stated. A few years ago a read a study that some financial guru had written that pretty much confirmed what I'd always suspected....It makes no financial sense,you lose your independence and you're forever beholden to a bank.
I often hear he reason put forth that "we'd like to leave something for our children" ,that being the case you're far better off renting and putting a little aside each month into a trust. I'd like to think most people would get to a ripe old age,in which case the "children" are probably in their fifties and already own a house and are financially independent
It's drummed into us from birth that we must have a house,nice car and 2.4 children as a measure of success,the only people that succeed from this are the ones at the top of the capitalist financial heap.

 

[Channa]

HOUSES,
Well, By now I think that Most can tell, I'm NOT a fan of Houses & have my own reasons for my Lifestyle choice, But that aside I just couldn't afford a House ! My reasoning is this.
AND PLEASE NOTE IM GUESSING AS IF DOING IT NOW, NOT 10 years or so ago !
When Buying You need Say £15,000 to cover initial Purchase & Legal fees etc.
Then Moving in & immediate Essential must have item Costs Say £1,500.
Then The sensible course would be to have at least a Cpl of month's Emergency money put aside Say £3,000.
Right YOURE IN for around the £20,000 mark !
In order to earn this money You have to Buy a Vehicle Say £3,000 for a decent ish reliable Vehicle.
SO THATS A LUMP SUM OF SAY £23,000 GONE,
& NOW THE EVER CONSTANT MONTHLY WORRY OF EARNING ENOUGH TO KEEP IT CAN START FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS.

Then the Monthly Stuff like
Vehicle Tax, Ins, MOT, Ware, Tare N Servicing, Occasional new Tyre etc at say £100 a Month.
Fuel for the vehicle To get to and from Work at say £50 a month.
The Mortgage lets just say £800 a month as a figure
Gas, Electric, Council Tax, Water/Sewage Monthly Bills of say £300.
Then the Maintenance, Replacement & Rainy Day Fund at say £150 a month.
Then the House Improvement for Decorating, Porch, Conservatory, New flooring, New TV treat, Shed for the Garden or what have you of Say £100 a month.
Then Because you Work Hard You Deserve a Holiday Or a cple of Breaks a year SO lets say £150 a month.
I think ime up to around the £1,700 ish mark so far of OUT GOINGS a month to be taken from any TAKE HOME PAY & I haven't Eaten OR had a Drink !.

Then of course Depending on the type of Job you might have to Buy Certain Suits, Vehicle Parking Permits, Dresses, The Latest or better Phone, Laptop or Tablet or bits for appearance or efficiency sake or just have stuff like Favoured working clothes Boots Or items that you wouldn't otherwise need to purchase if not in that environment so a consideration should be made for this.

If you are Lucky enough to Have a Partner Then they might decide to Work to Help out with the costs, at the detriment of The quality of your Home time together, BUT again depending on the job This 'MIGHT' also have costs ADDED to the above Monthly Outgoings, Such as an additional Vehicle & the associated costs. Possible Work Appearance & Efficiency costs like Phones etc. Extra Holiday Costs and so on. But that aside, At least you will be able to EAT & have a Bottle of wine occasionally. Some might think its all worth it for the 2 or so hrs of Quality time that would then spend together in the evenings Before they then go to bed Knackered and not really done anything with there day other than work, it then gives time for them to have a sleepless night Worrying where the money will come from to pay the bills if one of them Broke a Leg or The Car Blew up. Or Wonder just WHO actually lives next door or Opposite !. Hope they don't Block My Drive way in the Morning, WHO is making that BLXXDY racket ?, OH NO,,,Is that Drugs I can smell !.

My figures May be way out, But its a start for Debate Purposes

I can only speak from personal experience but there are obstacles to overcome before you get that far, dependent on what you have been doing.

Firstly getting back on the property ladder and certainly in an area and to the same standard before FT is very difficult , so you look at rented accommodation.

Even that is difficult they want a credit check, you are not showing on the electoral register, no payment profiles other than perhaps a mobile ..FAIL

Added to which unemployed. Social housing waiting months.

On the employment I had to do a residency test, Passports etc. Why have you chosen Doncaster ? that bit is straightforward. But you have no address, So to claim JSA you need to sign on every day ! I kid not.

So lets stop in the van, Already you are officially in the DWP's eyes a Gypsy/Traveller with not the same rights as you are not part normally of one of the recognised ethnic groups. New Age travellers had this problem until the law was changed.

So send a cv to a company with no address !! you can imagine. Also if you do specialised work there is a strong school of thought lets call it a career break, you are no longer up to speed.

Just a few of the things that won't apply to everyone but worthy of consideration.

I think it would be a fair statement that if you choose to go back Bricks, an Ex fulltimer does not fit the typical profile of the masses, More so if you made a clean break of it when you set off and travelled abroad. So can be quite challenging getting back in the system before you consider the things highlighted in your post.

BUT I would still do It all again

Channa

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Yes,,I think that without a doubt there exists a 'Them & Us' view, I can imagine that we are often looked upon as a 'Unclean Social Problem',, Its really weird isn't it !.
Speaking for myself, I Don't (or have never) Claimed monetary Government Support of any kind. But Paid in continuously for 20 odd years From 81 to 02, & on LOTS occasion since being Self employed. I care for & Sustain Myself. Wanting little, & happy to Pay for what I Need or use. Trying my best to stay within the Laws & always Conscious of My Presence & Impact.
But all the while Frowned upon buy the Mainstream of society !. They should be THANKING people like us who live our kind of Lifestyle for Decades on end when we have Paid in, But costing them Little or NOTHING during this time. LOL LOL Yeah as if that is going to happen LOL LOL.

 

[Channa]

To be honest NZ a lot of faffing about for £70 that wasn't really the reason, more to keep my stamp paid as private pension went belly up.

We all have different circumstances.

This was an interesting one DWP you are basically a traveller, and classed as homeless. Ok so you speak to the council and tell them you have a van, if you stop on a site can you can claim Housing Allowance as you need a base and now have an address. The answer is NO....SO they will pay £350 every 4 weeks for a one bed flat and give relief on council tax. water is the one that stings you. Yet you can free up accommodation for someone else to benefit and cost them less by stopping on a site for £10 a night. It doesn't make sense with the numbers.


Some people reading this might think yes but you made your opportunity abroad, came back to the UK tail between your legs and expecting the UK to help out.

Well let me make something transparently clear on that point. I worked abroad on "assignment" For a UK company paying UK taxes and National Insurance. The location has no relevance part of the EU, Freedom to work a single market and all the rest of it..But they do get excited when the location is not UK soil event though you are paying the UK stoppages. You couldn't make it up.

As regards settling again, you lose the freedom, You cant dictate the neighbours you have as already mentioned.

What I have not done is shared the solutions, I shall save that for later

Channa

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Absolutely Ridiculous, I suppose this would encourage people to Make Claimes, Get a Flat, Take whatever hand outs you are quite rightly entitled too, and then you could always just Live in the Moterhome !.

& your right, its little to do with anyone where & How you earned your money overseas or not, Fair play to you. I still got Paid & had the necessary deductions made when I was overseas working for the Country !, There's little difference !.

 

[Asterix]

Was just listening to this and thought it was appropriate to this thread....

malvina reynolds - little boxes - YouTube

 

[Nesting Zombie]

LOL LOL YEAH, I remember that song LOL.

Ironically She was SO SO well educated, With all sorts of Qualifications n Letters after her name that she was able to gain from being in 'Little Boxes' & She turned out 'All the Same' lol.

 

[Nesting Zombie]

SO, IF no Government Financial help is available for you if you 'LIVE' in a vehicle,,,Why Not ?,,,OR is there ?,,,

 

[Stanski]

BRICKS v WHEELS debate

There is a lot to absorb in this discussion and I do have some contribution (as always I hear you all shout - ha ha), but to do that will be another day, tomorrow possibly.

The ebook idea could be a worthy development and an interesting project so the next item could be chapters within it.

On reflection I feel this thread has now blossomed into 4 discussion topics which are:
1. - Fulltiming - Pros & Cons
2. - Bricks v Wheels - Adv & Disadv
3. - UK Legislation
4. - Support - Health & Technical
5. - ???

What would you add for additional Chapters?
- Vehicle Types
- Equipment for easy living
- Working on the Road
- Fulltimers Experiences
- The 80 and 90's
- The 21st Century

 

[jeanette]

There is a lot to absorb in this discussion and I do have some contribution (as always I hear you all shout - ha ha), but to do that will be another day, tomorrow possibly.

The ebook idea could be a worthy development and an interesting project so the next item could be chapters within it.

On reflection I feel this thread has now blossomed into 4 discussion topics which are:
1. - Fulltiming - Pros & Cons
2. - Bricks v Wheels - Adv & Disadv
3. - UK Legislation
4. - Support - Health & Technical
5. - ???

What would you add for additional Chapters?
- Vehicle Types
- Equipment for easy living
- Working on the Road
- Fulltimers Experiences
- The 80 and 90's
- The 21st Century

What equipment for easy living would you take then?

 

[Auld Pharrrt]

I'd be more inclined toward essential/practical equipment rather than easy living first, maybe ease of living equipment as a sub chapter.

 

[Channa]

Some good ideas, Heres one of my own never seen mentioned here before, and could benefit full members.??

Self Service garages, in other words we rent by the hour ramps and or workshop space.

There is a wealth of experience in this community, mechanics electricians gas people air con, etc most of whom prepared to give their time,

I know there has been "fix it " meets but takes the concept a little further.

More and more of these facilities seem to be popping up here is one in London and it equates £80 per day ....put that in context that is half an hour labour in a main dealer !

How many vehicles could we service / repair and fettle given 8 hours ? using the pool of expertise we have got ?

If you re- charged at £15 per hour to cover down time (which you get) what is left over but could be put back into the site. Even cover volunteers site fees ( I know I mentioned a site at say Abbey Wood)

Like any idea it would need a bit of thought .

Channa

Pit Start - Self Service

 

[Nesting Zombie]

There is a lot to absorb in this discussion and I do have some contribution (as always I hear you all shout - ha ha), but to do that will be another day, tomorrow possibly.

The ebook idea could be a worthy development and an interesting project so the next item could be chapters within it.

On reflection I feel this thread has now blossomed into 4 discussion topics which are:
1. - Fulltiming - Pros & Cons
2. - Bricks v Wheels - Adv & Disadv
3. - UK Legislation
4. - Support - Health & Technical
5. - ???

What would you add for additional Chapters?
- Vehicle Types
- Equipment for easy living
- Working on the Road
- Fulltimers Experiences
- The 80 and 90's
- The 21st Century

I think the e-book Chapters could take you through the WHOLE process -

Mental Preparation & Research. (explore where you are in your life & ALL the options available to you)
De Clutter your Life.
Communications for Family, Friends, Mates, Contacts Networking / Forums.
Finance Management & Clearing ALL Debt. (Before you go).
Health Management. (Any Medical concerns)
Mail & Accounts Management. (Post & Bank accounts)
Sustaining your Lifestyle. Savings, Budgeting, & Possible Earnings)
Safty (Both Personal & Vehicle)
Spare time Hobbies & Interests. (Dark Long Evenings)
Changing your Body Clock to suit. (Just because its Dark, Doesn't mean you have to sleep, Eat n Drink when your Hungry)
Vehicle Choices.
Vehicle Health & Management.
Must Haves.
Loose route Plans & Research.
Pet Considerations.
Cooking/Heating (Facility's n Fuel)
Food & Stores. (What's Practical to store, Carry n Cook)
The Should I Go moment !..(last Chance to change your mind)

You see ALL that & we haven't even turned the key & Driven any where yet LOL LOL LOL.

Offering advise BUT WITHOUT getting bogged down with ANY Particular Make n Model of Item or Product (Battery Charger, Inverter, Fire, etc ) Just give Outlines of usage in order to make the reader at least think about HOW they might work.

 

[chrismilo]

SO, IF no Government Financial help is available for you if you 'LIVE' in a vehicle,,,Why Not ?,,,OR is there ?,,,

I know a few in camper vans on the seafront here who pay there parking fees and can claim it back on housing benefit
But they have to pay first and submit the tickets.
They are Fulltimers

 

[Nesting Zombie]

I know a few in camper vans on the seafront here who pay there parking fees and can claim it back on housing benefit
But they have to pay first and submit the tickets.
They are Fulltimers

Hey Thanks for that,, That's actually Quite good isn't it !.

I will start saving my Car Park Tickets !.
It would be great if they joined in with there experiences on full timing !,,, Maybe you could Spread The Word Chris !.

 

[Auld Pharrrt]

A Flash of Inspiration

HOUSES,
Well, By now I think that Most can tell, I'm NOT a fan of Houses & have my own reasons for my Lifestyle choice, But that aside I just couldn't afford a House ! My reasoning is this.
AND PLEASE NOTE IM GUESSING AS IF DOING IT NOW, NOT 10 years or so ago !
When Buying You need Say £15,000 to cover initial Purchase & Legal fees etc.
Then Moving in & immediate Essential must have item Costs Say £1,500.
Then The sensible course would be to have at least a Cpl of month's Emergency money put aside Say £3,000.
Right YOURE IN for around the £20,000 mark !
In order to earn this money You have to Buy a Vehicle Say £3,000 for a decent ish reliable Vehicle.
SO THATS A LUMP SUM OF SAY £23,000 GONE,
& NOW THE EVER CONSTANT MONTHLY WORRY OF EARNING ENOUGH TO KEEP IT CAN START FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS.

Then the Monthly Stuff like
Vehicle Tax, Ins, MOT, Ware, Tare N Servicing, Occasional new Tyre etc at say £100 a Month.
Fuel for the vehicle To get to and from Work at say £50 a month.
The Mortgage lets just say £800 a month as a figure
Gas, Electric, Council Tax, Water/Sewage Monthly Bills of say £300.
Then the Maintenance, Replacement & Rainy Day Fund at say £150 a month.
Then the House Improvement for Decorating, Porch, Conservatory, New flooring, New TV treat, Shed for the Garden or what have you of Say £100 a month.
Then Because you Work Hard You Deserve a Holiday Or a cple of Breaks a year SO lets say £150 a month.
I think ime up to around the £1,700 ish mark so far of OUT GOINGS a month to be taken from any TAKE HOME PAY & I haven't Eaten OR had a Drink !.

Then of course Depending on the type of Job you might have to Buy Certain Suits, Vehicle Parking Permits, Dresses, The Latest or better Phone, Laptop or Tablet or bits for appearance or efficiency sake or just have stuff like Favoured working clothes Boots Or items that you wouldn't otherwise need to purchase if not in that environment so a consideration should be made for this.

If you are Lucky enough to Have a Partner Then they might decide to Work to Help out with the costs, at the detriment of The quality of your Home time together, BUT again depending on the job This 'MIGHT' also have costs ADDED to the above Monthly Outgoings, Such as an additional Vehicle & the associated costs. Possible Work Appearance & Efficiency costs like Phones etc. Extra Holiday Costs and so on. But that aside, At least you will be able to EAT & have a Bottle of wine occasionally. Some might think its all worth it for the 2 or so hrs of Quality time that would then spend together in the evenings Before they then go to bed Knackered and not really done anything with there day other than work, it then gives time for them to have a sleepless night Worrying where the money will come from to pay the bills if one of them Broke a Leg or The Car Blew up. Or Wonder just WHO actually lives next door or Opposite !. Hope they don't Block My Drive way in the Morning, WHO is making that BLXXDY racket ?, OH NO,,,Is that Drugs I can smell !.

My figures May be way out, But its a start for Debate Purposes

I just had a thought. How about, instead of one person compiling all the data, thoughts and info etc. and publishing a book why not try to extend Nesting Zombie's idea and let Admin (or someone) gather all the info and make an e-book which is available through WC.com book.

We mostly all agree that there is a wealth of information stored in our fellow members heads with regard to full-timing, self-conversions, electrics, mechanical repairs, navigation, locations, routes and good practices as well as things to avoid. If Admin can find someone to compile all the really useful stuff it could be sold for a small token payment and the proceeds either go to charity, towards running the site, prize draws or even a sympathetic gesture to the family of members who are no longer with us and have left us to full-time at that Big POI in the Sky. Basically, whatever Admin see fit to invest it in.

Regular updates as time change would probably be easy to arrange. Even if, instead of one huge tome on the whole WC subject, smaller volumes covering different sections ... FT'ing, Electrics, Mechanics, Do's and Don't's etc.