T4Lyn
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Likewise. Think there are a couple of petitions focusing on different aspects of the proposed bill.
Please see and sign the petition below re Wild Camping.
Tookey
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I agree, my signature was added as it is a further erosion of rights rather than because I think it will directly effect me and also because Bills can be amended and amended quietly! It is another brick in the wall, I am honestly still in shock about aspects of the PCSE Bill. I am genuinely concerned that if we carry on on this present course camping in England will only be legal on private land, campsites or in council designated zones
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Shockingdog
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Done
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Shrimpy
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I have read this section of the bill, and the governments responses to the consultation etc. This is not aimed at us wild campers at all. Its aimed at dealing with travellers and in my opinion will not make a blind bit of difference to that problem as the police already have powers to deal with them that they don’t use.Hi all,
my husband has just been sent this link by a fellow MHomer. Hope it’s ok to share it here as it’s a plan to ban!
Campervanners could soon be criminalised for wild camping in the UK
A new bill means campervanners wild camping in Britain could become a criminal offence. We find out more.www.euronews.com
There are people hyping this up to try and get us to protest the whole bill which will create powers to deal with people who disrupt our lives by blocking streets etc.
I made a video explaining how this bill will work if anyone wants to know.
I am a retired cop who has actually used the existing legislation at times and I can assure you we had no interest in mum and dad sleeping for a night in a park up.
Tookey
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I think you misunderstand why myself and maybe others have signed this petition. I know which community it is aimed at and I also know the Police aren't going to impound my vehicle. My signature is on there because it is a slippery slope, this Bill would be the foundation of making any wildcamping illegal if the authorities choose to do so in the future.
If over recent decades you look at how the right to protest has slowly diminished, now to the point where Amensty International is concerned about proposed state rulings in this Nation!
My concerns about the future legality of wildcamping are not unfounded, I am not a tin foil wearing conspiracy freak but rather a member of the public that is concerned with the level of conformity that presently is being promoted by the authorities.
The right to remove someones dwelling, therefore making them homeless and potentially imprisoning them for parking on private land is not acceptable in a free nation.
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Richard Wasteney
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The government response is “The conditions of the offence apply to those residing on land in or with a vehicle who cause significant damage, disruption, or distress and who do not leave when asked to do so. Those residing on land in a vehicle who do not cause significant harm will not be caught by the new offence”Hi all,
my husband has just been sent this link by a fellow MHomer. Hope it’s ok to share it here as it’s a plan to ban!
Campervanners could soon be criminalised for wild camping in the UK
A new bill means campervanners wild camping in Britain could become a criminal offence. We find out more.
This law is to control exactly the elements in society that give us responsible wild campers a bad name…….regret signing it now! Only this week was I on the receiving end of 3 instances of hostility in my motorhome, a good reason indeed to control those that fuel the growing hate of wild campers
Tookey
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Absolutely no regret.
The Bill is aimed at 'travellers', the public do not associate the behaviour of some members of the travelling community with wildcamping motorhomers, that is a very weak argument.
The Bill is worded in a manner that is completely open to interpretation. "significant damage, disruption or distress", please give me an example of an activity that falls into this category that is not already covered by existing criminal law and if you can please add why you think the activity can be justified as an imprisonable offence?
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Shrimpy
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I can understand your point of view but the acts of demonstration have changed beyond all recognition now and so called ‘peaceful protest’ now actually causes misery to law abiding folk. It’s all fine until you are on the receiving end. The hyped concerns about wild camping is being used by some to whip up the public over something that is just not as presented. I have actually had people commenting on my channel that they have changed their minds about buying the campervan of their dreams because of it.
Shrimpy
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Every piece of legislation is open to interpretation, that’s why we have lawyers, courts and juries. Yes there are powers for damage etc but that is not what this amendment is about. They are fixing a problem with the current law that requires 6 vehicles to be present. Soon it will be only one needed. To be honest though the police will still not act just like they don’t now when there are more than 6 vans. Just ask the landowners.
colinm
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If you have been targeted by certain groups you might appreciate the new law, in fact you might ask for it to be much tougher.
notthreebad
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Thank you for posting this petition, which I have signed and shared.
Tookey
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Shrimpy,
I dont think the existing powers are open to interpretation
- The unauthorised campers have caused damage to the land or property on the land (except highways).
- They have used threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour to the occupier, a member of the occupiers’ family, or their employee or agent.
The Bill may have its origins in the battle against unruly traveller encampments but has been written in a manner which means it can apply to a single vehicle staying in a location for one night, this is a concern as how is the Bill intended to be used in the future.
I am reading a proposed Bill that can be used to target all if necessary and not a Bill written up solely for the purpose of protecting landowners from unruly traveller communities
Tookey
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To put it another way;
If your long term goal was to make any form of camping outside of designated areas illegal because you believed;
1. It would reduce council costs (barriers, signs, litter etc)
2. Would be popular with both the public and councils
3. It would create millions of additional revenue in the form of VAT from campsites or similiar
4. Could create revenue for local authorities (council run car parks)
5. Would eradicate travelling communities
6. Would reduce anti social behaviour
Then I suggest that a Bill written in this manner would be a wise and well thought out first step. Presently an outright immediate ban would be perceived as draconian but a one step at a time approach will achieve the same result.
Read the Bill as if making wildcamping illegal was the final goal
If your long term goal was to make any form of camping outside of designated areas illegal because you believed;
1. It would reduce council costs (barriers, signs, litter etc)
2. Would be popular with both the public and councils
3. It would create millions of additional revenue in the form of VAT from campsites or similiar
4. Could create revenue for local authorities (council run car parks)
5. Would eradicate travelling communities
6. Would reduce anti social behaviour
Then I suggest that a Bill written in this manner would be a wise and well thought out first step. Presently an outright immediate ban would be perceived as draconian but a one step at a time approach will achieve the same result.
Read the Bill as if making wildcamping illegal was the final goal
colinm
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Let me tell you a story, I'll keep the facts short and will not elaborate even if someone asks.
A landowner I know had had 'paying guests' on his land for a couple of weeks, at the end of this period he asked them to leave, they refused, he asked the police to intervene, they refused saying it was a civil matter, he went to court and got a judgement, the bailiffs turned up to evict the 'guests', they threatened the bailiffs who then declined to carry out the order, police where contacted again, but with only word of mouth and the bailiffs refusing to comment they declined to take it further, in the end the land owner had to pay the 'guests' to leave.
At least under the new law the landowner could claim 'distress', and have got them moved as it would be a criminal case.
A landowner I know had had 'paying guests' on his land for a couple of weeks, at the end of this period he asked them to leave, they refused, he asked the police to intervene, they refused saying it was a civil matter, he went to court and got a judgement, the bailiffs turned up to evict the 'guests', they threatened the bailiffs who then declined to carry out the order, police where contacted again, but with only word of mouth and the bailiffs refusing to comment they declined to take it further, in the end the land owner had to pay the 'guests' to leave.
At least under the new law the landowner could claim 'distress', and have got them moved as it would be a criminal case.
Tookey
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So why isn't the proposed Bill being written in a manner that suits your example if these are the circumstances that they want to target;
As brief examples that could have been worded;
Stays exceeding 72 hours become criminal or the court can make a judgment to make it criminal.
I am not opposed to the scenario you describe becoming criminal but the Bill is not drawn up in a manner suited solely to these circumstances which could have easily been done. I think the phrasing of the proposed Bill is the foundation upon which wildcamping is to be made illegal in England and Wales. You believe it is phrased in a manner only to protect landowners in similar circumstances to which you described.
I truly hope you are correct and that I should not be concerned
Guy
colinm
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The law as proposed would have made the problem I posted a criminal matter as the landowner was 'distressed', I'm afraid some people just don't understand how big the problems are for landowners at the moment, we have to barricade ourselves in at the farm.
Tookey
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You have my sympathy but you are not understanding my point and I don't know how too make it any clearer.
I hope your farm situation improves