Ouch!! (Tyres)

[barryd]

Everything you put in the van aft of the front wheels adds a certain amount to the rear axle, even stuff in the overcab will throw a tiny bit of weight to the rear unless it's rammed in the front corner.

Im pretty sure with the old van when we weighed it the stuff in the luton balanced out the load on the back but its years and years ago now. That design in my experience certainly allows you to spread the load a more evenly. Its probably best there is a load on the back as there is a lot to pack in the front when you think about it. Anyway I had over 500kg free in total out of nearly 1000kg payload empty with the bike on the other day at the weighbridge with maybe 100kg of stuff left to go in for a trip and thats probably an over estimate. I would be surprised if we are ever over 4000kg. 3740kg the other day with the bike on, me and Michelle in it, a third of a tank of fuel but no water.

 

[alcam]

TYRES are the only thing keeping you on the road
dont go cheap!
clench your fist and look at the palmprint
times that by 4 and that's all between you and the road!
I just replaced all the shoes on the Jag with Pirelli P zeros .. expensive yes .. but worth it
The tyre folks said "do you want budget tyres?"
I said
"do I look like an out of work moron?"

No idea if you're out of work or not .
Didn't realise that made you a moron

 

[mark61]

****!
some of you lot need to get off the blooming road!

 

[Geek]

Vans in for MOT. Its passed but all four tyres are cracking at the sides. They are the continental camping tyres but all of them are ten years old so they have recommended replacing them. £230 each!! Ive said go ahead as I really have no choice. I've seen debates about whether normal van tyres will do and obviously they will likely be £100 cheaper each but with it being a 4.25t van, carrying the scooter etc and also stood for months on end I guess its probably best to have the best tyres suited for the job.

What with the service and MOT on top thats my day ruined.

I really don't understand why people think that commercial tyres are not up to carrying the loads they are rated for.

If a tyre is marked with a load rating, it is capable of bearing that load at the marked pressure.

If you want to pay double for thicker, kerbing-proof sidewalls, that's fine, but don't seek to justify it on the grounds of load capacity. .

 

[Geek]

You need to work it out from info on tyres.

Max psi on tyre will be for the full load rating. From that you can work out your correct psi for your actual weight. Deviating from that will incur compromises.

That's true for commercial tyres. Not so much for camper tyres.

CP tyres differ by having thicker sidewalls to cope with being kerbed.

This gives a harsher ride, particularly because they also need to be run at higher pressure - because the thick sidewalls build up heat as they flex and have more trouble dissipating it.

So what is a suitable and safe pressure for a C tyre is probably not safe for a CP tyre.

Moral of the story: if you want a good ride, don't buy CP tyres.

 

[barryd]

I really don't understand why people think that commercial tyres are not up to carrying the loads they are rated for.

If a tyre is marked with a load rating, it is capable of bearing that load at the marked pressure.

If you want to pay double for thicker, kerbing-proof sidewalls, that's fine, but don't seek to justify it on the grounds of load capacity. .

I had to make a quick decision really. Based on my past experience of using commercial tyres on my old van they don't last that long. The ones that have come off lasted a decade. I do kind of wish I had had more time to consider the options but the general opinion quickly searching round the forums was to go for the proper camping tyres and go on the advice of the garage. Im no expert but presumably if they are stronger they will bear that load for longer than a commercial tyre which may well become an advisory long before the more expensive camping tyre does. I also presume (rightly or wrongly) looking at them they will provide better grip on soft or wet grass than a standard one will. Don't know. The downside of course is the initial eye watering cost and yes the ride is a little harsh and rattly. Too late now anyway. I'm trying not to think about it.

 

[Tezza33]

I found Michelin Campingcar tyres noisy with a harsh ride, useless on wet grass, muddy fields and light snow, I switched to CrossClimates and the difference is very noticeable, I wouldn't buy any other now but it is a personal choice.

 

[colinm]

I had to make a quick decision really. Based on my past experience of using commercial tyres on my old van they don't last that long. The ones that have come off lasted a decade. I do kind of wish I had had more time to consider the options but the general opinion quickly searching round the forums was to go for the proper camping tyres and go on the advice of the garage. Im no expert but presumably if they are stronger they will bear that load for longer than a commercial tyre which may well become an advisory long before the more expensive camping tyre does. I also presume (rightly or wrongly) looking at them they will provide better grip on soft or wet grass than a standard one will. Don't know. The downside of course is the initial eye watering cost and yes the ride is a little harsh and rattly. Too late now anyway. I'm trying not to think about it.

Why do you think they are 'stronger'? Having had a long discussion with Michelin technical department, in the end they said they did not make a 'camping' tyre in the size used on my van, and declined to offer any tyre at all, I've now got commercial van tyres from Conti which are perfectly capable of taking the load, and there are commercial van tyres available which will take even higher loads, far beyond anything a 'camping' tyre can take. What most people don't realise is that 'camping' tyres (i.e. those marked CP) have a specific 'ply rating' and cannot be made to take the high loads that some commercial van tyres are built to take.

 

[Geek]

I had to make a quick decision really. Based on my past experience of using commercial tyres on my old van they don't last that long. The ones that have come off lasted a decade.

Quote a few years ago, I replaced all my tyres at once (all six) because I was changing size. They were all standard commercial tyres, all in good condition, no cracks.

Two were worn out, though. Well, I'd waited until then to replace them.

After the tyres were off, I discovered that one of the inner rear tyres was 13 years old and the other was almost 16 years old. Not much younger than the motorhome!

I guess that being inner tyres, they had always been sheltered from sunlight, so hadn't had that nasty UV damaging them.

 

[Fazerloz]

Commercials are designed to run loaded , If a commercial is not running loaded it is not earning.
I would rather buy 2 commercial van tyres than 1 that says camping on the wall. All tyres have to to pass safety standards. As for not lasting as long as a Camping tyre even if it is true which I doubt, With 2 new cheap commercials you also get 2 new carcasses and these days of pothole riddled roads you are far more likely to suffer tyre damage and it doesn't hurt as much throwing a part worn £100 tyre as it does a part worn £200 tyre.
2weeks ago I replaced both fronts £140.

 

[mark61]

That's true for commercial tyres. Not so much for camper tyres.

CP tyres differ by having thicker sidewalls to cope with being kerbed.

This gives a harsher ride, particularly because they also need to be run at higher pressure - because the thick sidewalls build up heat as they flex and have more trouble dissipating it.

So what is a suitable and safe pressure for a C tyre is probably not safe for a CP tyre.

Moral of the story: if you want a good ride, don't buy CP tyres.

Why is it not true for camper tyres?

Don't see why the max pressure at max load calculation can't be used to get the correct pressure for any tyre.

 

[barryd]

Why do you think they are 'stronger'? Having had a long discussion with Michelin technical department, in the end they said they did not make a 'camping' tyre in the size used on my van, and declined to offer any tyre at all, I've now got commercial van tyres from Conti which are perfectly capable of taking the load, and there are commercial van tyres available which will take even higher loads, far beyond anything a 'camping' tyre can take. What most people don't realise is that 'camping' tyres (i.e. those marked CP) have a specific 'ply rating' and cannot be made to take the high loads that some commercial van tyres are built to take.

So why are people saying the side walls are stronger then? Made to last longer parked up etc? And why did my commercial tyres never last remotely as long as yours on my last van?

They must make them for a reason but opinions seem divided.

 

[campervanannie]

They haven't mentioned this bit to me on the advisories. Do I assume its something that doesn't need fixing immediately?

• Front Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement both sides just starting to split (5.3.4 (a) (i))

My garage knows I never accept advisories based on if he has a to tell me something is going to break then just fix or change it before it does.

 

[mark61]

So why are people saying the side walls are stronger then? Made to last longer parked up etc? And why did my commercial tyres never last remotely as long as yours on my last van?

They must make them for a reason but opinions seem divided.

Possibly because people believe stuff without seeing any evidence, and then they repeat it.

Million reasons why people get different life span from tyres. If you are running close to or at their weight limit, you can expect a shorter life than someone who has tyres well within their limit.
Correct tyre pressure, obviously important, if you only check pressure once in a blue moon, don't expect same mileage as someone who checks, say weekly.

 

[barryd]

So are we saying camping tyres are a complete con then? Or is it just those with commercial tyres saying that? I wonder also if there is a specific insurance requirement if it came out of the factory with them on. I suspect not but I don't know for sure.

 

[mark61]

Forgot to mention having tracking done too.
Tracking went out on my van, gobbled up a tyre in about 1000 miles.
The tyres I use I can expect 50000+ miles easily, then I give them to a friend for his sons Land Rover.
Don't want them on my van after 50000 miles because I enjoy autobahns too much.

 

[mark61]

So are we saying camping tyres are a complete con then? Or is it just those with commercial tyres saying that? I wonder also if there is a specific insurance requirement if it came out of the factory with them on. I suspect not but I don't know for sure.

I'd never suggest they are a complete con.
Sure you'll find all you need to know here somewhere.

https://www.etrto.org/home

 

[gabby82]

Vans in for MOT. Its passed but all four tyres are cracking at the sides. They are the continental camping tyres but all of them are ten years old so they have recommended replacing them. £230 each!! Ive said go ahead as I really have no choice. I've seen debates about whether normal van tyres will do and obviously they will likely be £100 cheaper each but with it being a 4.25t van, carrying the scooter etc and also stood for months on end I guess its probably best to have the best tyres suited for the job.

What with the service and MOT on top thats my day ruined.

Yes I agree with Robmac. Only a very small area of contact between all of that weight and the road for a large weight. Loose good contact with the road and you could loose everything and worse.

 

[barryd]

Reading up while I was waiting for yet another tyre fitting this morning on my bike (Another £175) I read the the Camping tyres offer better stability than standard ones. Its impossible to tell really but one of the massive differences I noticed on our new van compared to the old one was the lack of movement and sway on the motorway when passing large vehicles (or on the rare occasion one passes me. ). Its solid as a rock but then its a heavier van. The old one with so much weight high up and possibly with a bike on the back would wobble like crazy.

 

[Nabsim]

That's true for commercial tyres. Not so much for camper tyres.

CP tyres differ by having thicker sidewalls to cope with being kerbed.

This gives a harsher ride, particularly because they also need to be run at higher pressure - because the thick sidewalls build up heat as they flex and have more trouble dissipating it.

So what is a suitable and safe pressure for a C tyre is probably not safe for a CP tyre.

Moral of the story: if you want a good ride, don't buy CP tyres.

Not sure I agree with this. I had to fit Continental tyres as they were the only ones that would meet the rear axle load rating. I had a choice of two models but both went for the 4 season version as van is used all year round.

Once the tyres were fitted I sent axle ratings and vehicles weights to Continental tech department and they told me to run them between 60 and 65psi which is less than stamped on the tyres.

I have always found they a good ride and 6 years on still loads of life in them and no cracks anywhere.

When I was looking round the manufacturers said the thicker side wall construction was to do with campers usually being stood for long periods. No idea of the validity of this but as I said at the start I had no choice anyway between camper or commercial tyres