No overnight parking and the BIG SOCIETY

[Deleted member 3011]

Hi Tony Lee

Just me trying to get thing into perspective when the tempers where getting, in my opinion a bit over heated. If you read the post you will see that neither myself nor the OP made any attempt to Justify the theft but to classify it as a minor crime.

When you cannot be bothered to look to see who you are quoting, to accuse the OP of being gutless for not marching into council office with said sign, which could have taken up many hours of his time is a bit rich.

May I ask what you have done to improve the parking for motorhomes

Someone else AKA Richard

I can't see anywhere that tempers have gotten overheated.

This post is all about some twit vandalising a sign and then being silly enough to come here and brag about it - albeit without being quite brave enough to give full name and address. As always happens, a few darlings get a bit upset when not everyone agrees with their stupid actions.

What I have or have not done to improve parking for motohomes isn't at all relevant to this topic so I'm not sure why you feel the need to ask. However, what I do try to do wherever I go, is to leave as little evidence of my passing as possible. If the OP followed my example, that sign would be still on the pole and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[maureenandtom]

I can't see anywhere that tempers have gotten overheated.

This post is all about some twit vandalising a sign and then being silly enough to come here and brag about it - albeit without being quite brave enough to give full name and address. As always happens, a few darlings get a bit upset when not everyone agrees with their stupid actions.

What I have or have not done to improve parking for motohomes isn't at all relevant to this topic so I'm not sure why you feel the need to ask. However, what I do try to do wherever I go, is to leave as little evidence of my passing as possible. If the OP followed my example, that sign would be still on the pole and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It's very relevant if you disagree with what someone else has done.

Tell us what you've done. And your full name and address at the same time please.

 

[Dezi]

I am constantly surprised how quickly almost any topic on an internet site becomes abusive.
May I offer a gentle word of caution on this particular downwards spiraling topic before we reach the “Godwin’s law” stage?
Godwin’s law states “That as an online discussion grows longer & more heated, then the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler is inevitably i.e. - councils are power mad – we are cowed – just like the Nazis etc etc.
At this point the discussion must finish & the person who makes this comment automatically loses the argument.
Just thought I would mention it before you reach that stage.
Dezi.

 

[Deleted member 775]

i dont know what the problem is we have wild camped all over for years ,and lived in the van and never had 1 problem with parking overnight on carparks with or without no camping or overnighting sighns . even talking to the carpark wardens they all seem to have no probs with us staying the odd night but and it is a big but if we start vandalising the sighns we will be stopped parking .how many times do people on here say pick up rubbish and leave the place tidy and those who dont make it hard for us to get local authoritis to come on our side ,what is going to happen when we are trying to convince the local councils how responsable we are when we are ripping down sighns THATS VANDALISEM sorry for any spelling mistakes. if as a lot of us say the sighnes have no standing in law then isent it more sensible if we get fined to challenge them in court than rip them down

 

[maureenandtom]

Mandrake, yes it is. Much more sensible.

Dezi, Stop being sensible. And silly too. Nobody is going to talk about Nazis or anything like that. And who ever heard of councils being power mad?

Tony. It's just a bit much when you call somebody a thief. Especially coming from somebody who is profiting from the theft of an entire continent from it's rightful owners. That's a bit like … Oh!

Michael. Are you ex-service? I'm almost sure you are. Are you having fun?

 

[donkey too]

At the end of the day the council that erected the sign was elected by the people of that area to represent them., Therefore in erecting a sign saying "no overnighting" whatever. they were doing so on behalf of the people of that area who incidentally pay the rates in that area.
If the said vandalism (for it is nothing short of that) was done by local youths. there would be outcry. If it were Gypos stopping there there would be crys of move them away.
By wild camping you are tolerated by the owners of the land you stay on. It is the owners right to set whatever rules they like and expect you to respect them. You have no right, god given or otherwise to stay where you please with no questions asked.
I often have people from a riding school next door park in my drive way. although it is a long driveway with huge grassed verges, I don't want people parking there and have a notice saying so. I expect people to repect my wishes, if they don't then the gates get locked so that they can't access their car and have to pay a levy not for the return of the car but to get me to open the gates. That is my right.

 

[Dezi]

Mandrake, yes it is. Much more sensible.

Dezi, Stop being sensible. And silly too. Nobody is going to talk about Nazis or anything like that. And who ever heard of councils being power mad?

Tony. It's just a bit much when you call somebody a thief. Especially coming from somebody who is profiting from the theft of an entire continent from it's rightful owners. That's a bit like … Oh!

Michael. Are you ex-service? I'm almost sure you are. Are you having
fun?

Hi its always worth remering what you have previously said before you jump in.

You said " It's true. We are a cowed and frightened society." Surely that can only come from being intimidated by a power mad authority, council or otherwise.

Regarding my comment about Nazis. Well its because threads with no solution, such as this nearly always end up that way & is the very reason “Godwin’s law” came into being.

Dezi

 

[Firefox]

If I had a penny for every time I hear about Godwin's so called law, hehehe.

I think you will have to have the law invoked on yourself Dezi, because you were the first to mention Nazis, albeit only in the context of explaining the "law", that still counts!!

 

[maureenandtom]

And who ever heard of councils being power mad?

My inadequate attempt at irony. I apologise.

If it is not obvious to all, then I freely admit here and now that I believe that councils are inadequately supervised and often take powers upon themselves that we have not given them.

As for us, generally, being frightened. Of course we are. Post after post expresses the fear of what councils will do next if we dare disobey them. "Don't park there or the council will put up a barrier and we won't be able to park there." Yeah? Not see something wrong with that?

 

[Dezi]

If I had a penny for every time I hear about Godwin's so called law, hehehe.

I think you will have to have the law invoked on yourself Dezi, because you were the first to mention Nazis, albeit only in the context of explaining the "law", that still counts!!

Really by who's rules ?

I think this thread has now run out of steam & logic. So I am off.

Dezi

 

[BecksP]

Encourage this thread please...

Having seen how (reasonably) law abiding motorhome users are being marginalised by bureaucrats who are doing little to support the manufacturers of motorhomes in this country, I am ashamed that our local car park and lay by are being handed over to those degenerates who engage in public sexual activity.

I live near a Cheshire beauty spot once frequented by Motorhomes where we have been banned, with the ubiquitous signage, for no known reason as far as the local residents can see, unless the council ordered a bulk purchase of them. The area is now popular for "dogging" where cars owners use the venue for casual sex discarding no end of paraphernalia behind when they leave.

The Police are disinterested, the law turns a blind eye but at least we have seen the back of motorhomes.... I hope not. The UK is quite mad you know. We need to take some kind of action because they are most definitely not listening, and have not done so for the 10 years I have had a motorhome.

Our activity needs far greater support from councils to encourage sensible use not ban us.

 

[MichaelU]

Casual sex!

So if I visit cheshire and remove your sign I shall deprive dozens of people the opportunity of casual sex?

Tickled to think where this thread has gone, sex was the last thing on my mind.

I do agree that Motorhome owners have been totally ignored for too long now. I contribute to the economy by my purchase yet I am treated like a leper when I want to visit a town or city and park up. I want to spend my cash in the UK but I feel more comfortable and welcome in France where I go as often as I can.

Local and national Government need to welcome our contribution to the economy not scorn and prohibit us.

 

[maingate]

I go away for a few days and look what happens!!!!!

Nicking (sorry recycling) signs and now Hitler gets mentioned.

I personally would not remove anything. I have, however, parked up where there was a no overnight parking sign. Usually I tuck the van in tight against the sign if possible, so that I can say that I did not see it.

If the sign is official and accompanied by the information as to why and who decrees no overnighting then I obey it. If it is just a sign on its own, then I believe that it has no basis in law. I am willing to risk prosecution and will fight any court action in that case.

I have just returned from a few nights wilding and had a conversation with a local busybody who said that the Police would move me on if they saw me 'camping'. This lady is on the village committee of a local village and had no idea of a campervan or motorhome. She was amazed that they have toilets and showers (what did she think we did for a toilet ) This same area used to have a problem with fly tipping, which reduced after the wilders started giving vehicle details to the local council officers. She was not happy when I told her about it and that it would start again if we were banned. I deliberately stayed one more night to see if we would be bothered by the Police, as I had the feeling that she is the one causing problems for wildies. John Thompson fell foul of somebody in this spot recently. Anyway, we had another quiet and peaceful (but very frosty) night.

 

[Higgy]

Film : Book; Play:

Random House one of the largest Book Publishers have been on the telephone.

It would seem we have the ideal content for a
best seller.

The following categories just fell into place.

Degenerate Sex
Riding School
The Royal Family
Dogging

Immigrants
Gypsies
Metal Theft
Gang Masters

Politics
Hitler
Nazis
Neighbourhood Watch ( busy bodies)

No animals were harmed during this production.

 

[John H]

Really John?

Are you sure this has any relevance?

Section 6: Powers to stop or direct traffic

29.Section 6 provides for traffic officers to have similar powers to those held by the police under the Road Traffic Act 1988 (“RTA”) to require vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians to stop and to require vehicles and cyclists to proceed in a particular direction.

Or did you think I wouldn't be bothered to look?

Don't know what you have been looking up but part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 deals in great detail with the right of local authorities to enforce parking regulations. I'd check again if I were you.

 

[John H]

Are we taking this a bit far. It seems to be a mad moment of rebellion against what could well have been a bit of totally unfair bureaucracy. No ******. No vadalism(Bracket left in place).No pain or suffering, just a small theft for no personal gain except a bit of personal satisfaction. MichaelU said that he was "Shocked at his action". Therefore he was in no way saying it wto take as the corrrect action to take or encourageing others to take similar action. He also had the courage to own up to it and take the flack.

JohnH
Yes I do complain about about local Gangmasters Keep ILLEGAL ******, 8 to a room and more that 30 to a terrraced house. Paying them less than minimum wages. This happened locally and was reported in the nation press. I fail to see the comparrison.

Richard

The point is, where do you draw the line? A "small theft" to you is mindless vandalism to others. No doubt the youths who vandalise bus shelters can justify it in terms of art rather than crime - and illegal immigrants will no doubt say that it is unfair that you should enjoy freedoms they don't just because of an accident of birth. Many people who who commit a crime think they are not doing anything wrong - rather that the law is wrong.

 

[Tbear]

Hi Richard

1. 2. Not necessarily.
WHERE A SITE LICENCE IS NOT REQUIRED
Use within curtilage of a dwellinghouse
1. A site licence shall not be required for the use of land as a
caravan site if the use is incidental to the enjoyment as such of a
dwellinghouse within the curtilage of which the land is situated.

4 could be OK provided that only one Motorhome caravan is involved and it is for no more than two nights and the total number of nights in a year does not exceed 28.

Use by a person travelling with a caravan for one or two nights
2. Subject to the provisions of paragraph 13 of this Schedule, a
site licence shall not be required for the use of land as a caravan
site by a person travelling with a caravan who brings the caravan
on to the land for a period which includes not more than two nights—
(a) during that period no other caravan is stationed for the
purposes of human habitation on that land or any adjoining
land in the same occupation,and
(b) if, in the period of twelve months ending with the day on
which the caravan is brought on to the land, the number
of days on which a caravan was stationed anywhere on that
land or the said adjoining land for the purposes of human
habitation did not exceed twenty-eight.

In all of the above it would not be the person in the caravan/Motorhome that is breaking the law. It would be the owner of the land.

3.
There is no problem in taking a rest in a lay by. No one would suggest that a driver should proceed if they feel that their driving is impaired by tiredness.
The question must be asked, is there not somewhere that would be more suitable near by? We all use laybys for a quick break including having a snack or having a short rest break. Where problems arise are prolonged stays.

Parking in a lay by is controlled by other regulations. If the road has a speed limit of more than 30mph, then the vehicle lights must be displayed after dark.
If the parking causes an obstruction then the police can take action.

John

John

Thankyou for your efforts to clear the points but I am very sorry the questions where meant to be rhetorical. My point being its all a bit daft. As long as a lone van is parked sensible, with thought for others, overnight and is gone the next day. Where is the harm? I am sure there are a thousand busy bodies who will object, well I am truly sorry they have so little going on in their lives.

As for the arguement that we are braking the law so we are filth - Have you never done 31mph in a built up area, speeding in a built up area, an action which puts children's lives at risk. If I'm filth for poor parking whats that make you? No, just a complete hypocrite

 

[Tbear]

The point is, where do you draw the line? A "small theft" to you is mindless vandalism to others. No doubt the youths who vandalise bus shelters can justify it in terms of art rather than crime - and illegal immigrants will no doubt say that it is unfair that you should enjoy freedoms they don't just because of an accident of birth. Many people who who commit a crime think they are not doing anything wrong - rather that the law is wrong.

John as a rule I find it best not to draw lines and admit to a grey area.

 

[Coolasluck]

The point is, where do you draw the line? A "small theft" to you is mindless vandalism to others. No doubt the youths who vandalise bus shelters can justify it in terms of art rather than crime - and illegal immigrants will no doubt say that it is unfair that you should enjoy freedoms they don't just because of an accident of birth. Many people who who commit a crime think they are not doing anything wrong - rather that the law is wrong.

A bit differant John bus shelters are useful to the public these signs are not.I hope for your sake you dont get them there in sunny spain.

 

[defitzi]

parking legitimate stop

Oh dear, oh dear. Now I know why there are fewer and fewer places available for us to legitimately stop.

U are defeatist that how Hitler nearly won! the damn signs are the product of nasty dirty dictatorial little "I dont -you shouldn't" little nothings in grey suits..... tear down all such signs and keep tearing them dowm and keep on... until, they give up!
And if yoiu can't pull 'em down just ignore them!
Meantime Let's find oiut who uis sellin g them to the grey suits and deal with them- there has to be somebody behind the proliferation of these signs other than the cARAVAN CL;UB OR THE mOTOR CARAVAN CLUB , HOTELIERS , b& b LANDLADIES AND SUCHLIKE!