New signs put up in Wales regarding motorhomes seen in Barmouth car park and spotted in a layby

[trevskoda]

I'm gonna start having nightmares about cemetery taps soon

Would that be in the DEAD of the night.

 

[Tezza33]

I Have, & on occasion still do, so top tip to all readers,,,
NEVER disturb a Zombie heading for the Woods with a spade & a Scented Dog poo bag to bring the used paper back !.

Wouldn’t it be GREAT if my ‘Lethermans Multi Tool’ had a Fold our Spade

This time next year I could be a Millionaire

Or up to your neck in s**t

 

[Rolyan57]

As I mentioned in another thread, the sheer numbers of vans this Summer has caused ill feeling amongst many locals (sadly) and a small but increasing number of van owners who have left rubbish and emptied their waste tanks in public places has created this tension that the authorities have responded too in a negative way. I guess it is cheaper for them to ban over night parking and place height restrictions with barriers than create the much needed 'Aires' I would so like to see here. Most local authorities in N. Wales are doing the same but also NRW (Natural Resources Wales) have also placed signs prohibiting overnight camping / parking in their car parks for the first time, again, in response to the volume of vans stopping over and the rubbish being left. As a local myself who enjoys a night or two 'wild camping' I have almost given up on the idea of doing so this Summer, hopefully attitudes will improve (and the number of vans diminish once European travel resumes).

The trouble is, even when the numbers drop over the next year or so, the local authority restrictions, the height barriers and the no overnight camping signs on private land will remain.

Sadly, this has probably changed ‘wild camping’ permanently.

 

[Fisherman]

The trouble is, even when the numbers drop over the next year or so, the local authority restrictions, the height barriers and the no overnight camping signs on private land will remain.

Sadly, this has probably changed ‘wild camping’ permanently.

No overnight parking signs on private land are enforceable, but not on public carparks. And barriers are a simple way of avoiding all that goes along with acquiring and enforcing a TRO.
Soon the way things are heading only parts of Scotland will be available, and that won’t last to long when all of the English and WELSH motorhomes head up here.
Also when things get back to normal, the Europeans will be back taking up any slack left by some of us heading to Europe.
Sadly I don’t think things will get quieter in future years.

I was reading in this months MMM that new sales of motorhomes were down 2000 from the previous year.

 

[MrSoapsud]

As someone who wildcamps in a T5 where possible who also lives in Gwynedd I've engaged with my councillor following the Council's "consultation". This was his statement about why "something has to be done":

Social nuisance: Lots of campervans park in nice places and then leave their rubbish there and deficate on the side of the road, or empty their toliets into our rivers. We are already one of the 7 areas of European overtourism, and much of our tourism is disrespectful and damages our environment and community life. In my opinion the council should have the legal and financial resources to manage and regulate tourism so that it id beneficial to both local people and visitors. To help get rid of the animosity.

Economic: Staying on roadsides avoids contributing financially to the Gwynedd economy. A sustainable tourist economy ensures that visitors contribute financially to the host community. Campervans are an increasingly popular way of holidaying and we need to adapt to this to make sure we benefit.

Visitor experience: Ive been a tourist as much as anyone. Ive had positive experiences and negative ones. Having to have to poo on the street or worry about the legality of my stay would make for a negative holiday experience for me and im sure thats true of the campervan visitors to Gwynedd. There are plenty of countries in Europe that sustainably accomodate the types of visits campervans are looking for, and provide services for them. Im pretty sure thats what campervan visitors to Gwynedd would like.

No real reason why we can do that and provide a positive experience for the visitor and helps local people see that its not just a free for all at our expense.

I also challenged him about the Morfa Bychan situation mentioned some time ago in this thread and his response was:

"No idea about the Morfa Bychan scenario but it sounds very very unlikely. The banning of motor homes from a beach in Gwynedd wouldnt happen just because a councillor and campsite owner made a couple of complaints."

Can "the team" help me provide an appropriate response?
Thanks
Martin

 

[Fisherman]

As someone who wildcamps in a T5 where possible who also lives in Gwynedd I've engaged with my councillor following the Council's "consultation". This was his statement about why "something has to be done":

Social nuisance: Lots of campervans park in nice places and then leave their rubbish there and deficate on the side of the road, or empty their toliets into our rivers. We are already one of the 7 areas of European overtourism, and much of our tourism is disrespectful and damages our environment and community life. In my opinion the council should have the legal and financial resources to manage and regulate tourism so that it id beneficial to both local people and visitors. To help get rid of the animosity.

Economic: Staying on roadsides avoids contributing financially to the Gwynedd economy. A sustainable tourist economy ensures that visitors contribute financially to the host community. Campervans are an increasingly popular way of holidaying and we need to adapt to this to make sure we benefit.

Visitor experience: Ive been a tourist as much as anyone. Ive had positive experiences and negative ones. Having to have to poo on the street or worry about the legality of my stay would make for a negative holiday experience for me and im sure thats true of the campervan visitors to Gwynedd. There are plenty of countries in Europe that sustainably accomodate the types of visits campervans are looking for, and provide services for them. Im pretty sure thats what campervan visitors to Gwynedd would like.

No real reason why we can do that and provide a positive experience for the visitor and helps local people see that its not just a free for all at our expense.

I also challenged him about the Morfa Bychan situation mentioned some time ago in this thread and his response was:

"No idea about the Morfa Bychan scenario but it sounds very very unlikely. The banning of motor homes from a beach in Gwynedd wouldnt happen just because a councillor and campsite owner made a couple of complaints."

Can "the team" help me provide an appropriate response?
Thanks
Martin

Well reading the reply and comments like “lots of campervans park in nice places and deficate on the side of the side of the road, or empty their toilets into our rivers” can we be more specific than lots, and can you provide photographic evidence of these misdemeanours. Or are you simply reading articles from local rags or complaints from locals who have been reading local rags. Also how do you know who exactly is carrying out these misdemeanours, have people witnessed this first hand. Are motorhomes the only types of vehicles using these areas, or do cars and other types of vehicles with no toilet facilities use these places also.
As for us not contributing to local economies, you could ask where they get this information from, and how they have made this deduction. Also ask how much day trippers in cars who will greatly outnumber us contribute to these local economies, and ask how much is spent providing toilet facilities for them and the costs involved in maintaining car parks for their use which we are not able to use due to barriers and signage.
You could also ask how many Motorhome dealerships, workshops, and shops are in Wales, and how many Welsh people are employed within the industry they wish to damage with short sighted inconsistent policies towards us.
Finally right now Wales is looking like a country that does not welcome visitors unless they reside in hotels and B&Bs. Is that really the image that Wales wishes to send to the rest of the U.K. and Europe. Instead of short sighted poorly rationalised policies, why don’t you actually do as some councils in Scotland are doing and adopt a proactive forward thinking approach and look to improve the inadequate facilities, which are a legacy of years of the very lack of forward thinking you are currently displaying.

I hope you find some of this useful.

 

[Rolyan57]

As someone who wildcamps in a T5 where possible who also lives in Gwynedd I've engaged with my councillor following the Council's "consultation". This was his statement about why "something has to be done":

Social nuisance: Lots of campervans park in nice places and then leave their rubbish there and deficate on the side of the road, or empty their toliets into our rivers. We are already one of the 7 areas of European overtourism, and much of our tourism is disrespectful and damages our environment and community life. In my opinion the council should have the legal and financial resources to manage and regulate tourism so that it id beneficial to both local people and visitors. To help get rid of the animosity.

Economic: Staying on roadsides avoids contributing financially to the Gwynedd economy. A sustainable tourist economy ensures that visitors contribute financially to the host community. Campervans are an increasingly popular way of holidaying and we need to adapt to this to make sure we benefit.

Visitor experience: Ive been a tourist as much as anyone. Ive had positive experiences and negative ones. Having to have to poo on the street or worry about the legality of my stay would make for a negative holiday experience for me and im sure thats true of the campervan visitors to Gwynedd. There are plenty of countries in Europe that sustainably accomodate the types of visits campervans are looking for, and provide services for them. Im pretty sure thats what campervan visitors to Gwynedd would like.

No real reason why we can do that and provide a positive experience for the visitor and helps local people see that its not just a free for all at our expense.

I also challenged him about the Morfa Bychan situation mentioned some time ago in this thread and his response was:

"No idea about the Morfa Bychan scenario but it sounds very very unlikely. The banning of motor homes from a beach in Gwynedd wouldnt happen just because a councillor and campsite owner made a couple of complaints."

Can "the team" help me provide an appropriate response?
Thanks
Martin

Reading that response from the Council I think you’ll have your work cut out. Seems to be a very narrow minded and blinkered view, with minds already made up.

We should still give it a go though. Along the lines already suggested; question the points and give an opposing positive view.

But don’t be disappointed (or disheartened) by any negative response you get from the Council. As already mentioned, my fear going forward is that the Councils and also private landowners will retain all the legal restrictions they now have in place, even when the newbies go back to Costa Del Boy.

 

[Kontiki]

Its an unfortunate fact that the motorhome community gets the blame for people leaving rubbish, that isn't to claim it is unjustified as most of us will have seen others doing it but thankfully not widespread. Not just in this country but throughout Europe. There are very few provisions for motorhome to overnight without causing problems, we all want to find nice places but often these are shared with day trippers who also want to park there. I know many have tried to talk to local councils to get provisions but mostly with little success, what it needs is a change countrywide. Now might be time to approach the Welsh government with ideas to solve the issues. There is a lot of money to be made from having paid stopping places as well as the local community having more people visit.

 

[MrSoapsud]

Might part of the problem be the users of "motorhomes/campervans" which are actually little more than a van with a mattress and a camping gas stove in the back?
There have also been instances (unknown number) of people arriving in Snowdonia to "wild camp" and then abandoning their tent, instant BBQ, rubbish etc when they go home.

 

[Fisherman]

Might part of the problem be the users of "motorhomes/campervans" which are actually little more than a van with a mattress and a camping gas stove in the back?
There have also been instances (unknown number) of people arriving in Snowdonia to "wild camp" and then abandoning their tent, instant BBQ, rubbish etc when they go home.

Absolutely, this is one of the issues up here in scotland.
I doubt very much if we are to blame for much of what is going on in Wales.
But the media have done a job on us.

 

[number14]

Seems to be a very narrow minded and blinkered view, with minds already made up.

That's quite a prevalent attitude in the areas being discussed. We have lost count over the years of the number of times that the friendliness quotient has rocketed when SWMBO, a native Welsh speaker, switches languages.
It's a case of not wanting tourists even though jobs are in short supply.
The mining eyesores of the Welsh valleys have now virtually disappeared but the area is still in the economic doldrums. You see, "Tourism is not man's work"

 

[MrSoapsud]

That's quite a prevalent attitude in the areas being discussed. We have lost count over the years of the number of times that the friendliness quotient has rocketed when SWMBO, a native Welsh speaker, switches languages.
It's a case of not wanting tourists even though jobs are in short supply.
The mining eyesores of the Welsh valleys have now virtually disappeared but the area is still in the economic doldrums. You see, "Tourism is not man's work"

Sadly some of your experiences may be down to the attitude of some English visitors who e.g. arrive during a World Cup in which Wales were also participating with their plastic England flags on their cars!
There are also the minority of English visitors who act like they own the place, although sadly many of them now do! ;-) (Another problem in Gwynedd that the council are trying to wrestle with.)

It struck me since posting the comments that Gwynedd Council may have shot themselves in the foot by closing most of the public toilets in the county to save money. Doing that and then wondering why *some* visitors make alternative arrangements ought to give them pause for thought.

Does "the team" have a feel for the proportion of "responsible" motorhome/campervan owners who like to pay to stay on sites with all the facilities against those who avoid sites? Would a reasonable proportion of the latter pay a small amount to use something akin to an Aire?

Appreciate all the comments so far and will attempt to construct a response at some point.
Thanks
Martin

 

[Fisherman]

Well Martin I reckon if chemical waste and fresh water are available we should be willing to pay something. I am heading up to Findhorn end of this month and they provide these facilities plus Motorhome only parking in proper bays at £15 a night. Now Findhorn had issues similar to Wales, but instead of short cited measures they built this facility for up to 21 motorhome, with a maximum stay of two nights. There are plenty of other examples up here.
But there should be plenty of free parking spaces in Wales also.
Heres a link to Findhorn and a Cameron McNeish video about it and a stop over in Fraserburgh run by members on here for £5 a night.

Findhorn Parking | Home

www.findhornparking.com

 

[Robmac]

Sadly some of your experiences may be down to the attitude of some English visitors who e.g. arrive during a World Cup in which Wales were also participating with their plastic England flags on their cars!

Sorry but I really don't see a problem with that!

 

[mistericeman]

Sorry but I really don't see a problem with that!

Same here....
IF folks are going to get upset about plastic flags on cars during a football competition where all sorts of different nationalities are doing the same....

Then we are ALL truly knackered...

Frankly the Welsh (especially closer to the border) are some of THE most nationalistic folks I've ever come across

Are the English going to get upset about the Welsh crossing the border with red dragons on their reg plates and windows?

To be honest the way things are sounding at the moment I'm thinking of staying closer to home and not spending a solitary groat further abroad than my local area or taking advantage of my 'dual nationality status (Mrs is from Yorkshire)' and spunking wads of cash where its happily received on the East Yorkshire coast where we got nothing but warm welcomes and friendly enthusiastic locals.

Maybe Wales and Scotland can give me a ring when they are desperate for some coin again.....

(Disclaimer....
The above is mostly tongue in cheek
As we have rarely if ever had anything but a warm welcome in Wales/Scotland by the local folks we have met in the secluded corners we usually seek out)

 

[Robmac]

Same here....
IF folks are going to get upset about plastic flags on cars during a football competition where all sorts of different nationalities are doing the same....

Then we are ALL truly knackered...

Frankly the Welsh (especially closer to the border) are some of THE most nationalistic folks I've ever come across

Are the English going to get upset about the Welsh crossing the border with red dragons on their reg plates and windows?

To be honest the way things are sounding at the moment I'm thinking of staying closer to home and not spending a solitary groat further abroad than my local area or taking advantage of my 'dual nationality status (Mrs is from Yorkshire)' and spunking wads of cash where its happily received on the East Yorkshire coast where we got nothing but warm welcomes and friendly enthusiastic locals.

Maybe Wales and Scotland can give me a ring when they are desperate for some coin again.....

(Disclaimer....
The above is mostly tongue in cheek
As we have rarely if ever had anything but a warm welcome in Wales/Scotland by the local folks we have met in the secluded corners we usually seek out)

I was thinking to myself just how many Welsh flags you see in England when they play us at Rugby, and I've never known it cause a problem.

They wear Welsh shirts in my local for the games and the most you ever get is a bit of banter which I thoroughly enjoy.

 

[Fisherman]

I was thinking to myself just how many Welsh flags you see in England when they play us at Rugby, and I've never known it cause a problem.

They wear Welsh shirts in my local for the games and the most you ever get is a bit of banter which I thoroughly enjoy.

Up here Rob they stopped flying Scottish flags and started flying Italian ones for the final. As Wully said we promised the Italians if they beat England we would stop deep frying their pizzas. A real shame as this Scottish delicacy is now no longer available.

 

[alcam]

Sadly some of your experiences may be down to the attitude of some English visitors who e.g. arrive during a World Cup in which Wales were also participating with their plastic England flags on their cars!
There are also the minority of English visitors who act like they own the place, although sadly many of them now do! ;-) (Another problem in Gwynedd that the council are trying to wrestle with.)

It struck me since posting the comments that Gwynedd Council may have shot themselves in the foot by closing most of the public toilets in the county to save money. Doing that and then wondering why *some* visitors make alternative arrangements ought to give them pause for thought.

Does "the team" have a feel for the proportion of "responsible" motorhome/campervan owners who like to pay to stay on sites with all the facilities against those who avoid sites? Would a reasonable proportion of the latter pay a small amount to use something akin to an Aire?

Appreciate all the comments so far and will attempt to construct a response at some point.
Thanks
Martin

Not sure how you could respond to that statement . It is all over the place . The man appears to be arguing with himself .

 

[Robmac]

Up here Rob they stopped flying Scottish flags and started flying Italian ones for the final. As Wully said we promised the Italians if they beat England we would stop deep frying their pizzas. A real shame as this Scottish delicacy is now no longer available.

I had 2 football experiences in Scotland Bill.

One was when I was in the work van during a world cup and I had the St George's flag in the rear window and some idiot tried to run me off the M74.

The second was at Fort Augustus when England were actually playing Scotland in a friendly. I got drinking in the pub by the flight of locks with a Scotsman called Dougal. He suggested we went to another pub to watch the match with his mates. I wore an England shirt and we had a great night. Lots of light hearted banter, even after the end of the game which England won. Sure I got some stick, but as I say all light hearted.

 

[trevskoda]

Always trouble here after a match, cars burned/damaged house windows smashed riots and police everywhere, tax payer out of pocked again.