New passport system for the EU (Schengen)

[Annsman]

Wow! Quite a story.

Presumably the new EES schengen system will eliminate issues like this when it supposedly comes online this year.

The Schengen Entry/Exit System: biometrics to facilitate smart borders

The EU Entry/Exit System will create a unified database on the entry and exit movements of Third Country Nationals. Discover the EES system.

www.thalesgroup.com

However, presumably our borders or passports at least have to be EES ready / compatible. I am sure our government will have thought about this of course so what could possibly go wrong?

How long have you got!

 

[Fisherman]

Hi. It is important you get your passport stamped when entering and leaving a Schengen area. It’s worth checking this gets done at airports too! We had personal experience of this in November coming back through the tunnel. Strap in this is a long one!
Ann, my wife goes on holiday for two weeks, in June with her sister to Lanzarote. Her passport was stamped when she arrived there. But NOT when she left, or arrived in Manchester. It seems at Manchester they arent, or weren’t, staffed to stamp passports, because they use the auto machines.
In September she went again, but this time her passport wasn’t stamped on arrival at Lanza, or when she left The UK.
Meanwhile, I left for Spain in the van, passport stamped at Dover. Drove to Spain and then met her in Malaga, she flew from Lanza direct, so no stamp because it’s an internal Spanish flight. Fast forward to Calais in November and we duly show our passports. I’d counted they days and we were at day 82 of our 90. Except we weren’t!

Well to be accurate according to her passport she had been there since June! Senior people were called to the check in queue to make a decision as whether to arrest her, deny her entry into The UK, fine her, upto 10,000 Euros, or accept my story. Finally after being taken out of the queue, the van checked by armed security for weapons and illegal immigrants, the senior bod accepted the emails for both holiday flights I’d kept on my phone, and we were allowed through. They wrote in her passport the dates and times, so it wouldn’t happen again.
The moral of the story is they DO check and DO count up the days! Be warned people!
BTW. This is a UK rules introduced when we were in the UK to stop pesky foreign people from outside The EU overstaying their time in the EU and UK, coming back to bite us! How we laughed!

There have been hundreds of cases of this happening to people.
As far as I am aware no one has been penalised to date.
Currently member states are taking the view that these are "teething issues."
But before long they may change their approach.
We have to realise that we are no longer EU members, and we gave up rights of membership.
When entering the US your entry along with finger prints and retina scans are taken, and your departure is logged onto their system.
I would think before long this will be what happens here.
No wonder the Irish are inundated with requests for passports from those with Irish parents.


uk-advises-its-citizens-to-ensure-their-passports-are-stamped-when-travelling-to-from-the-eu

british-residents-in-eu-start-facing-the-harsh-reality-of-travelling-post-brexit

 

[colinm]

I think there is a little way to go yet as far as firming all of this up goes. Our first trip since Brexit involved a ferry from home to Dublin then a ferry to Cherbourg. My wife has an Irish passport therefore the 90 day in 180 rule doesn’t apply to us providing I’m travelling with her.

Have you thoroughly checked that? I think we have been here before, it seems you can waunder around the Schengen area with no limits, but if you stop for more than 90 days in any country other rules apply.

 

[TJBi]

Have you thoroughly checked that? I think we have been here before, it seems you can waunder around the Schengen area with no limits, but if you stop for more than 90 days in any country other rules apply.

"...it seems..."
Based on what authoritative source?

 

[Fisherman]

Brits married to EU citizens are not bound by 90/180 day rule and can live in Spain​

Author:
Posted on April 14, 2021
Posted in More Insight | Tagged Brexit, Residency |
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Diligent research by a reader establishes that Brits (and other non-EU nationals) with EU spouses are not bound by the 90/180 day rule, and can live in Spain without having to get a visa – something that has not been widely reported in the British press.
“I’ve been trying to find out from varied sources over the last few months whether being an UK citizen married to an Irish citizen I was exempt from the EU 90/180 day rule,” explains reader John by email. “I had been led to believe the only way was through residency.”
Thanks to John’s research we know that if your spouse is an EU citizen you don’t have to worry about the 90/180 day rule travelling in the Schengen area, and you can stay in Spain as long as you like with your spouse, so long as you meet other requirements. Brexit is not a barrier if you are married to an EU citizen.
“I hope the reply below from the Europe Direct Contact Centre will be useful for British or other third-country citizens, married or in a partnership with E.U. citizens, who wish to escape this rule without taking out residency,” explains John. Another reader commented “I reckon an article on the subject would be interesting because there are a lot of people in that situation and do not recall anything in the national press which covers it.”
So here’s what the Europe Direct Contact Centre has to say about the rights Brits married to EU citizens to travel and live in Spain and other EU member states. Thanks to the reader ‘John Boy’ for the information.

 

[REC]

Freedom of movement for EU citizens. and their family members, overrides Schengen agreement rules. Very confusing but the EU directive

EU freedom of movement and residence | EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

covers rights of freedom of movement and residence.
Even the border guards are confused about this. Residents of an EU country should NOT have their passport stamped on entry to Schengen zone as 90day rule doesn't apply. I know people who reside in Portugal but are UKcitizens, get into trouble when returning to uk for a visit as it looks like they have overstayed from previous crossing of French border.


edit...Crossed with Fisherman's post!

 

[jacquigem]

Tax residency is something different that needs to be considered if you are planning more than 180 days I believe. ?

 

[REC]

Tax residency is something different that needs to be considered if you are planning more than 180 days I believe. ?

Definetely, becomes more complicated as staying more than 184days (I think!) Means you become a tax resident of the country as live there more than uk.

 

[witzend]

As I've posted before 90 day trips OK for us it's just the 90 day period before we can go again that hurts. Has anyone found any thing about a visa yet

 

[colinm]

"...it seems..."
Based on what authoritative source?

That would be here.

Your non-EU spouse and children's residence rights in the EU - Your Europe

You are an EU citizen moving to another EU country to live, work or study? Your spouse, children and grandchildren can join you, even if they are not EU nationals.

europa.eu

 

[Fisherman]

So if one of you have Irish parents, or possibly grandparents, apply for an Irish passport and you can forget about the 90 day rule. my dad was Irish, and I have his birth and Matt sign certificates. But I don’t reckon I will bother.

 

[REC]

So if one of you have Irish parents, or possibly grandparents, apply for an Irish passport and you can forget about the 90 day rule. my dad was Irish, and I have his birth and Matt sign certificates. But I don’t reckon I will bother.

That is why the Irish were inundated with UK people wanting passports, believe they now say only parents should be Irish not grandparents, but could be mistaken!

 

[Fisherman]

That is why the Irish were inundated with UK people wanting passports, believe they now say only parents should be Irish not grandparents, but could be mistaken!

You can get citizenship if one of your parents were born in Ireland before 2006.
You are automatically deemed to be Irish born abroad. Over 200,000 unionists in Northern Ireland have applied. Most Catholics in Northern Ireland already had Irish passports. If your grandparents were Irish it’s much more difficult, and cannot be done online.
Many who voted for the unmentionable are now looking for Irish passports.
I am considering it, but I don’t think I will.

 

[r4dent]

Don't forget your passport is only now valid for 10 yrs any extra gained by applying early is no longer accepted

Woman loses £2,000 after being hauled off flight to Tenerife due to Brexit passport changes

A woman has told of her frustration after being removed from a flight to Spain and having her New Year’s Eve “ruined” over a little-known change to post-Brexit passport rules. Aya Shillingford, 36, said she was “devastated” after staff escorted her from her Jet2 flight to Tenerife on Thursday...

uk.news.yahoo.com

Not accurate. The article you linked to says
According to the Government website, “Your passport must be less than 10 years old on the day you enter (check the ‘date of issue’).
“Your passport must be valid for at least 3 months after the day you plan to leave (check the ‘expiry date’).”

If passport was issued on 14/2/12 and expires 1/8/22 you can enter EU on 1/2/22 and leave within 90 days (before 1/5/22)
If passport was issued on 14/2/12 but expires 13/2/22 you can enter EU on 1/2/22 but must leave with 13 days.

 

[witzend]

Not accurate. The article you linked to says

What it Amounts to is your passport is only Valid for 10yrs from its issue date

 

[GeoffL]

First, many thanks to @REC, @Fisherman and @colinm for the links upthread. I have a Dutch friend who is a UK resident with a wife who is a UK citizen who wants to spend six months in France with one of their children and the other six months each year with another child in UK. She's worried sick about the Schengen rules and those links strongly suggests her worries are unfounded.

Not accurate. The article you linked to says
According to the Government website, “Your passport must be less than 10 years old on the day you enter (check the ‘date of issue’).
“Your passport must be valid for at least 3 months after the day you plan to leave (check the ‘expiry date’).”

If passport was issued on 14/2/12 and expires 1/8/22 you can enter EU on 1/2/22 and leave within 90 days (before 1/5/22)
If passport was issued on 14/2/12 but expires 13/2/22 you can enter EU on 1/2/22 but must leave with 13 days.

While the basic point is true, the last line is incorrect. If your passport expires on 13/2/22 you must leave no later than 3 months before that date (i.e. 13/11/21). Hence you would not be allowed to enter the EU on 1/2/22 since the 3 month cut-off is prior to that.

 

[Deleted member 86180]

Have you thoroughly checked that? I think we have been here before, it seems you can waunder around the Schengen area with no limits, but if you stop for more than 90 days in any country other rules apply.

Yes the Schengen EU 90 day in 180 rule will apply if you are subject to that rule, we aren’t! Once you have date stamped out of the U.K. it’s up to you where you go for the next 90 days, but after that if you haven’t date stamped out via a regulated border crossing back home or into a non Schengen country, you aren’t legal, I don’t know what the infringement penalty might be, but that is for someone else to discover!

Like I mentioned earlier, if on an extended European tour and you are subject to this rule, it might be worth exiting a few days early into a non Schengen country just in case you need to return home to the U.K. early for some unforeseen circumstance just so that you have legitimate grace to get home!

 

[colinm]

I have a Dutch friend who is a UK resident with a wife who is a UK citizen who wants to spend six months in France with one of their children and the other six months each year with another child in UK. She's worried sick about the Schengen rules and those links strongly suggests her worries are unfounded.

Without going back and double checking, and just from memory of earlier discussions, if you are a close relative of a EU resident you should be able to stay with them for longer than 90/180, but you do need to get the relevant permissions, either through a visa or residence. Also AFAIK a resident of one Schengen country can't just decide to stay for longer than 90 days in another Schengen country without similar permissions, something which seems to have been ignored up to recently, if or how it will be policed is debatable, I'm guessing the rules where made assuming a fixed abode and not someone trundling around in a motorhome.

 

[witzend]

This may have already been covered

The new Entry-Exit System (EES), which has been in the works since 2016, will replace the current system of border guards stamping passports.

Will it work with our current passports?

Now you tell me only last month we paid £10 each to have extra pages in our passports so as to have plenty of room for stamps

 

[barryd]

As I've posted before 90 day trips OK for us it's just the 90 day period before we can go again that hurts. Has anyone found any thing about a visa yet

I Think there was a thread about it a while back and I remember looking into getting a Visa just for France. It was costly, horrendously complicated and there were no guarantees you would get one. I think the general consensus was it would be a case of applying to individual countries. I guess we are just not on anyones radar as it would surely make sense for countries to offer easy access for motorhomers (tourists) for say six months but I cant see it happening. Only plan I have come up with is to include a month or two in Croatia to extend a summer European trip.