Masham, North Yorkshire - Recreation Ground Parking

izwozral said:
Perhaps the gentleman would explain how the chairman could not benefit from the restriction placed at the recreation ground? If indeed the area was being abused as stated, how does the council know it was by motor homers?
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They dont know but thats what happens in this country. A few people misbehave so up go the height barriers and everyone is banned. Its easier to just ban stuff here than it is to actually take a step back and look at how you could actually provide the right facilities for genuine motorhomers with real money to spend. Until we are classed as an opportunity here like we are in the likes of France, Germany or Italy rather than just a free loading nuisance, nothing will change. Europe this year for me again, four months and some hopefully.
 
barryd said:
They dont know but thats what happens in this country. A few people misbehave so up go the height barriers and everyone is banned. Its easier to just ban stuff here than it is to actually take a step back and look at how you could actually provide the right facilities for genuine motorhomers with real money to spend. Until we are classed as an opportunity here like we are in the likes of France, Germany or Italy rather than just a free loading nuisance, nothing will change. Europe this year for me again, four months and some hopefully.
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I think this is where the councils fail badly Barry, they do not see it as an opportunity.

We have 23,000 members on this forum, the majority of which would rather wildcamp than go on sites. Many are now turning their attention to mainland Europe, and a hell of a lot of revenue going with them.
 
I feel that if no lies have been told here then certainly there has been economy with the truth. I have read back through the council minutes and the issue has regularly been discussed, but almost if not entirely this has been in relation to the passage of travellers en route to Appleby. It would certainly be interesting to see how many complaints have been received not related to this and if general overnight parking has ever been discussed.
The chairman of the council, with a caravan site interest only disclosed in general and never as far as I could see at any individual meeting, was instrumental in investigation of village green status and protections. I think that most overnight stayers did not actually use he village green, this appears to be where the travellers sometimes stay.
Indeed it is sad that the extensive discussion of passing travellers en route to Appleby has resulted in the height barrier and effectively banning all motorhomes throughout the year. This council have missed an opportunity and I feel have not entirely been above board in doing so.
 
I think now would be the opportunity to move this discussion forward.

The issue of disclosure has now been discussed fully, at this point and now seems to have become a waved stick.

Maybe those in email communication with the Parish Council clerk (Tom) might like to use that email to formally request a member, or members of the council to join and contribute to this discussion, in the spirit of open, transparent and accessible local governance of our communities.

While we can not know the outcome of such an open and transparent discussion, it would prove a good exercise for both our communities.

The Parish Council are active in the running of the Community Office, who's say:

Our aim is to keep our small rural community, which has so much to offer, alive, active and vibrant for all those who live and visit here.

Well, we in 'Wildcamping' with our membership of 20,000+ have publicly expressed our interest to continue to visit and financially contribute to this rural community.

Parish Councils are, in the areas they operate, the first tier of local Government. While the councillors take only small recompense, if any, for the valuable work they do, they are still part of the Government. As such, all tiers of Local Government are required to respond to formal requests on a specified time. To deal openly, transparently and equally with all members of the public.

Wild Campers and other visiting camper van and motor-homes have been using these areas for many years and therefore a precedent seems to have been set regarding it usage.

While the Parish Council has acted in the best interests of the community of Masham to protect this area during the annual migration of travellers to the horse fair, it should, in the interests openly, transparently and equally be being seen to enter into dialogue with other, legal and respectful visitors, who financially contribute to their community.

It may well be that an alternative local site is identified, to the current green but this will only be seen to happen if communication takes place.

Enjoying the outdoors be it in a tent or campervan is a recognised pastime and together with sports, pastimes are a key requirement of Village Green status and as such of any funding drawn down to facilitate its status.

Having said that a short walk from an alternative but similar location, would still afford the same benefits but clearly demonstrate real cohesion between our communities and might prove an idea solution for all, including local businesses.

Hopefully, some of the Parish Councillors will accept and invitation and be able to join this discussion and demonstrate, communities, working together to support our rural communities.

I hope so.
 
I agree with most of what you say Ed, However BarryD hits the nail on the head re Uk councils in the main seem blinkered to opportunity.

Any attempt at meaningful dialogue seems to fall on deaf ears, attitude seems to be entrenched. British trait and psyche ?

What I can never fathom out, is a lot of councils are made up of people with business interests. Therefore I don't think it is wrong to assume they possess a bit of acumen, But I cant understand why they don't use that acumen to benefit the local community, It borders on failure to serve the electorate to the best of ones ability. neglect of duty etc.

Incidentally this is not specifically aimed at MashamPC but it does seem a trend with councils in general. When the TDF visited this part of Yorkshire, I am sure behind closed doors the local council employed tourist prevention officers !!

I am never wholly convinced myself when people talk about financial benefits, But I do agree with you , open and frank dialogue between parties could identify areas of mutual benefit .( your defrbbilator comment a good example) Adding value is not always financial which I know you are well aware of.

It is a complex problem but the first stage to providing working solutions is dialogue. We are happy to talk so come on councils somewhere engage with us !!

Channa
 
Ed on Toast said:
....Maybe those in email communication with the Parish Council clerk (Tom) might like to use that email to formally request a member, or members of the council to join and contribute to this discussion, in the spirit of open, transparent and accessible local governance of our communities.
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Hi Ed,

I have informed Tom that his post is now visible on the forum and has attracted comments. I have invited input from he and fellow councillors.
 
Why not just close the barrier before and after the appleby event for a couple of weeks either side? Charge a fiver for a dozen markedly Motorhome only spaces. But a tap in and if possible a black and grey waste point. You don't even have to do that though. Just set up an agreement with the campsite for users to dump their waste there for say another fiver. The campsite owner is getting a fiver a time the. As well and make no mistake, people won't go and stay on the Site because they cant park in the town, they will just go somewhere else.

Maybe offer an alternative when the barrier is down if there is anything suitable.

In France this would be done by either an honesty box, a person calling each evening or morning, users going to the ti or Marie etc to pay the fee or in more modern overnight parking facilities by paying at a barrier to get in or leave (expensive)

I have no idea if this would work at Masham but it works in thousands of towns and villages in France. Point is there are alternatives to just putting in a barrier and banning everyone that all can benefit from
 
I'm guessing they have no more to say on the matter.

Oh well, we tried.
 
It was worth a try Rob, thank you.

Just goes to show, the the indefensible is not defensible I guess and those who hold sway over us treat us with contempt.

Sod 'em.
 
Dear Councillor,
We have a 6 metre long ,3 metre high motorhome.
When we are on holiday, we can easily spend £25 per day on a pub lunch and a couple of coffees. We like to visit the local attractions, spending quite willingly for good amenities.

Being retired, and having difficulty walking, we just need somewhere nearby, level and preferably with hard standing to prevent damage during wet weather. That's enough for the odd night. A simple tap and drain would be an added bonus.

Campsites are more suitable for touring caravans, their children and pets. They usually take their car to different locations during their stay, so their spending power is spread out in other attractions, outside your parish council.
Bus services are usually sparse ,so campsites are of little use to us.
Thank you for warning us that we and our kind are unwelcome. We will pass that message on for you.
Send my apologies to Paul Theakston, I will not be able to buy any more of his excellent beer or sweatshirts.

The money you have saved me will be spent somewhere more convivial.
Paul and Jenny Sanders
 
This is for fellow Motorhome owners.

It is with great sorrow that I will no longer be buying or accepting beers from The Theakston and Black Sheep breweries.

It will be a huge sacrifice!
 
I understand the the proper travelling community might well at this very moment be arranging a national meeting on this very site, and there will be at least 150 units and horse boxes as well. turning up to have the annual knees up. possibly more if there is enough wild grazing for the ponies.in the locality, they will be arriving in a fortnight for at least a month maybe more.:scared:
 
GWAYGWAY said:
I understand the the proper travelling community might well at this very moment be arranging a national meeting on this very site, and there will be at least 150 units and horse boxes as well. turning up to have the annual knees up. possibly more if there is enough wild grazing for the ponies.in the locality, they will be arriving in a fortnight for at least a month maybe more.:scared:
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So will the gates be left open when the Appleby Horse fair is over and done with?
Will motorhomes be welcome to stay within a short walk of the town?
Instead of an outright ban, can the PC just advise us not to visit at certain specific times?
 
As a rule I am sympathetic towards travellers, and as a couple of folk here are well aware I have contacts in their community. Height barrier in Masham not a chance ....one stihl saw later !!!

Some of them and quite entrenched is they feel discriminated wherever they go...in that context actions speak louder than words , that barrier will be cut they will be on site and the barrier weighed in.

It will happen watch !!...the elders don't necessarily agree either with vandalism but understand the frustration of the younger ones.

( the elders will berate them up hill down dale I have seen it...but they close ranks when the gavvers or council involved )

We think as motorhomers are discriminated against and aghast try it living on the road, so whilst I don't endorse some of their behaviour it is understandable.

The young ones particularly daft as brushes and believe the world is against them, so they rebel it really is not that difficult to understand.



Channa
 
What's missing is evidence of what we spend in each location, over a year between us it must be quite substantial. If we had a thread where we could add up all our spending over a year it could be used negotiate an Aire with the councils. If we collectively spend £20k a year in Yorkshire and £3k a year in Lancashire then it should be pointed out Lancashire when talking to them.
A simple spreadsheet containing money spent, date and place would work.
 
Did not stop them

Just found out after all the effort put in by the council to stop the Appleby horse fair travelers camping on the recreation ground the height barrier & rocks failed not to stop them !!!!
 
Budgie said:
Just found out after all the effort put in by the council to stop the Appleby horse fair travelers camping on the recreation ground the height barrier & rocks failed not to stop them !!!!
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That could be good news for us Black Sheep drinkers.
Will Motorhomers be welcome to spend a couple of nights in the town until next year's fair approaches?
Would the council let us know.
I would be quite happy if they were prepared to warn us when they want us to stay away for a couple of weeks per year.
 
Budgie said:
Just found out after all the effort put in by the council to stop the Appleby horse fair travelers camping on the recreation ground the height barrier & rocks failed not to stop them !!!!
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It seems I was correct post 75 !

The daft thing is , if provision were made for motorhome communities and plenty of evidence starting to surface from places like Hawick that it can be commercially successful, there is a good chance the travelling community would stop away.

In common with a lot of communities , they don't really go out their way to integrate with non travelling folk. Masham is enroute for some not the venue. Motorhome presence could well dissuade them from stopping. a bit nimby and problem shifts elsewhere I accept that but could cure Mashams headache

Channa
 
channa said:
It seems I was correct post 75 !

The daft thing is , if provision were made for motorhome communities and plenty of evidence starting to surface from places like Hawick that it can be commercially successful, there is a good chance the travelling community would stop away.

In common with a lot of communities , they don't really go out their way to integrate with non travelling folk. Masham is enroute for some not the venue. Motorhome presence could well dissuade them from stopping. a bit nimby and problem shifts elsewhere I accept that but could cure Mashams headache

Channa
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Cor mate you were bang on, just like septic peg, sorry I mean mystic meg. :bow:
 
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