Masham, North Yorkshire - Recreation Ground Parking

Masham PC

Guest
Dear All

Masham Parish Council manages the area in Masham known as the Recreation Ground, this being where the cricket ground and tennis courts are located. Adjacent to the Recreation Ground is an open grassed area known locally as the Shooting Holme. This is in fact the Village Green and as such has protected status, which includes the prohibiting of overnight camping.

Very occasionally we have noted that motorhome or caravans are parked overnight despite the presence of a large notice prohibiting this use. Indeed it is apparent that there is a perception that this type of camping is allowed. I have to advise you that this is not the case. Whilst it is true that the area is a beautiful riverside location, it is not considered suitable for overnight parking and this fact is clearly stated on the signage in the entrance area. As a result I have been requested to advise you that in order to prevent further occurrences the council has now erected a height restriction barrier that will deny access to these vehicles. I do hope that you will understand the reasoning behind this decision.

It should be noted that there are a number of camp sites in the area, all of whom are open to visitors, and of course the town of Masham welcomes visitors to its historic market square, wonderful countryside and local breweries.
 
Masham PC said:
Dear All

Masham Parish Council manages the area in Masham known as the Recreation Ground, this being where the cricket ground and tennis courts are located. Adjacent to the Recreation Ground is an open grassed area known locally as the Shooting Holme. This is in fact the Village Green and as such has protected status, which includes the prohibiting of overnight camping.

Very occasionally we have noted that motorhome or caravans are parked overnight despite the presence of a large notice prohibiting this use. Indeed it is apparent that there is a perception that this type of camping is allowed. I have to advise you that this is not the case. Whilst it is true that the area is a beautiful riverside location, it is not considered suitable for overnight parking and this fact is clearly stated on the signage in the entrance area. As a result I have been requested to advise you that in order to prevent further occurrences the council has now erected a height restriction barrier that will deny access to these vehicles. I do hope that you will understand the reasoning behind this decision.

It should be noted that there are a number of camp sites in the area, all of whom are open to visitors, and of course the town of Masham welcomes visitors to its historic market square, wonderful countryside and local breweries.
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Firstly thank you for entering dialogue, and I would like to offer my own observations.

Please note that my remarks are personal perceptions, and in know way reflect or propose to be an official stance of this site.

There is plenty of evidence councils through out the country have erected signage with no legal backing whatsoever, there are strict regulations re the validity of signage this apparent attempt to enforce what often is not legally enforceable has induced a culture where some people will ignore the signs. This perhaps explains why people have parked ignoring signs which may have no more legal clout than "Not in my back yard |" thank you .

Motorhomes as you refer to them are in the main self sustaining, There is absolutely no reason visitors should leave with only tyre tracks left as evidence. Indeed a lot of members here using " wild locations" often have a tidy up before leaving , thus the spot in a better position than at the point of arrival.( Surely this benefits the local PC and their residents ? )

You may also want to take note that several locations that have afforded this community space to meet, have openly offered to host again thus the responsibility and behaviour of this group.

The offer or suggestion of commercial campsites is not the answer, It is nothing to do with free loading etc but more people don't really need to pay for facilities they don't require.

I am going to respectfully ask you to think about something. Motorhomers as a general rule have good disposable income to spend in your local area, supporting local business and economy...The "silver " pound particularly has good exchange rate, So why cant Masham take the lead ?....Height barriers and all the rest of it aside lets look at ways to make the situation work. If you look at the French model of aires it is apparent straight away the value to the local economy. I assure you tendering local campsites is not the answer.

Finally I think it is important you relay to your fellow councillors, the Motorhome community want to work with you rather than against each other which is non productive.

I am happy as a resident of Yorkshire to attend a council meeting so we can discuss opportunity further, Does your council have the open agenda to consider such a thing or are you sheeple a blinkered approach ... Give me a try , No one has nothing to lose only gain !!


Channa
 
Just curious so I google mapped where the OP may be referring to.

This, I guess, Google Maps

I can see why they wouldn't want it to become a "campsite"

And I'm sorry, I am not in accord with those who say it's fine to camp/overnight because these type of signs aren't TROs - just don't do it!!!

Google Maps
 
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I must admit, I personally wouldn't park on a recreation ground. So I can see the annoyance.

But perhaps Masham PC might be able to suggest other places in the area where we can camp, other than campsites?

We spend a lot of money on our vans to make them self sustainable, solar panels, water/waste water tanks, cassette toilets etc. etc. The last thing we want to do is stay on a regimented, extortionately priced campsite with facilities we don't need. We may as well give up our vans and use B&B's as do that.

Many councils seem to think that if we are not allowed to camp, we will go to campsites, this is not the case, we will simply move on somewhere else to spend our money. This is why more and more motorhomes are going to Scotland or the continent these days.
 
I am somewhat perlexed by Masham Parish Council's assertion that "there are a number of camp sites in the area, all of whom are open to visitors".

The majority of the campsites in the area seem to be sites which are Certified by either the Caravan & Motorhome Club or the Camping & Caravanning Club, and are therefore only open to members of those Clubs and not to everyone. Also there do not seem to be any sites that are open all winter.

Installing height barriers to any car park is to my mind a very shortsighted decision for any Council to make if they wish to encourage tourism in their town. It denies access to all those who's main transport is taller than an average saloon car; in addition to motorhomes and campervans, this includes holidaymakers (who may be camping on nearby campsites or staying in B & Bs or hotels) but who have roof boxes fitted to their cars. It can also be a problem for the disabled who sometimes have larger vehicles, and large families who may use MPVs or minibuses.

Indeed, if the problem occurs only "Very occasionally", then I suggest it is taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
 
It may well be worth noting at this point that Flo Grainger (Chairman Masham Council) is a director of Ellingmoor ltd. who own 3 caravan parks around Masham.
 
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Robmac said:
It may well be worth noting at this point that Flo Grainger (Chairman Masham Council) is a director of Ellingmoor ltd. who own 3 caravan parks around Masham.
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Conflict of interest indeed. Well spotted Rob, it puts a completely new perspective on the opening post.
 
From a look at the Google maps picture linked above it would seem unreasonable to overnight or even park on the recreation ground, particularly if there are signs indicating that someone objects to such. I cannot see how a height barrier would prevent the pictured vans getting there though.
On a wider note I think that caravan site owners need to realise that preventing motorhomes from parking overnight in certain places does not increase business for their site, it merely means the vans will park elsewhere taking with them any benefits to other local businesses that their spending would result in. Many motorhome users have invested in their vans not to be coralled into sites with lines of other vans but for the freedom afforded by a self contained unit. It is disappointing that so many local councils prefer to act against motorhome users rather than encourage them.
 
I know I keep bleating on about NZ but the UK need to look at the Freedom Camp model they adopted in response to the explosion of visitors, particularly following the release of LOTR. Specific areas are set aside for vehicles to camp overnight, sometimes 2 or 3 nights, quite often toilets are provided. The small towns get the benefit of the campers spending money in the shops, museums, cafe's and attractions, they are also invited to leave a donation in some places.
We came across some Freedom Camps managed by the local community, we even came across camps with fruit and vegetable gardens, with the produce available for a small fee - sometimes for free.
On the whole it worked extremely well, with very little evidence of abuse.

It really was a win win situation where everyone benefited.
 
Good point Rob M,

Parish Councils, like Masham, must make public the record of minutes of meetings. I am sure these will clearly show the Chair declared a prejudicial interest and took no part in the making of this decision. To do so would be considered a very serious breach of trust and would normally lead to a call to resign.

I echo previous posts and would welcome some dialogue taking place. The more we understand each other, the less prejudice there is in the world.

There are many positives to be had from a good relationship between our communities. As many others here also do, I often litter pick an area before leaving. Not my own litter but that of other visitors. It all helps to create a nice atmosphere but there are many other benefits, including extra income for local businesses (Wild Campers are 12 month visitors)

A village i visit on a regular basis, had raised funds to buy a defibrillator and site it on a box outside, for all the community to use, if needed. Alas they are not confident in its use, as training was not included. A member of our Wild Camping forum, is visiting soon to deliver some free training in its use.

I wonder if Masham has a publicly sited defibrillator? and if you do, is there a need for some more training?

Thank you to the person from Masham PC, who posted on here, to keep us updated. Maybe it could be the start of a good and mutually beneficial relationship between our communities?

Hopefully Tom (Parish Clerk) will visit us and read this thread, if not someone might invite him:

mashamparishclerk@gmail.com
 
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Ed on Toast said:
Good point Rob M,

Parish Councils, like Masham, must make public the record of minutes of meetings. I am sure these will clearly show the Chair declared a prejudicial interest and took no part in the making of this decision. To do so would be considered a very serious breach of trust and would normally lead to a call to resign.

I echo previous posts and would welcome some dialogue taking place. The more we understand each other, the less prejudice there is in the world.

There are many positives to be had from a good relationship between our communities. As many others here also do, I often litter pick an area before leaving. Not my own litter but that of other visitors. It all helps to create a nice atmosphere but there are many other benefits, including extra income for local businesses (Wild Campers are 12 month visitors)

A village i visit on a regular basis, had raised funds to buy a defibrillator and site it on a box outside, for all the community to use, if needed. Alas they are not confident in its use, as training was not included. A member of our Wild Camping forum, is visiting soon to deliver some free training in its use.

I wonder if Masham has a publicly sited defibrillator? and if you do, is there a need for some more training?

Thank you to the person from Masham PC, who posted on here, to keep us updated. Maybe it could be the start of a good and mutually beneficial relationship between our communities?

Hopefully Tom (Parish Clerk) will visit us and read this thread, if not someone might invite him:

mashamparishclerk@gmail.com
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Ed you pretty much and more eloquently reinforce my points and train of thinking.

Masham is a lovely little town, and I imagine if you were ever posted at Catterick you are well versed in its charms.

It would be really refreshing for a change if we could work with a council, with an open mind it is reasonably easy to demonstrate that our community can add value to the area and not drain nor detract.

I truly believe that an open mind, healthy dialogue as you suggest offer an opportunity to mutually beneficial relations.

I don't have a magic wand, but would love the opportunity to show any council the "French " approach adds unlimited value to the community. They have identified very quickly that camp sites are not the answer, alternative provision however attracts the visitors and incremental revenue to the villages.

I honestly believe if we can win one council around, we shall create a precedent and beneifts that appease ,and enrich everyone

Channa
 
Ed on Toast said:
Good point Rob M,

Parish Councils, like Masham, must make public the record of minutes of meetings. I am sure these will clearly show the Chair declared a prejudicial interest and took no part in the making of this decision. To do so would be considered a very serious breach of trust and would normally lead to a call to resign.

I echo previous posts and would welcome some dialogue taking place. The more we understand each other, the less prejudice there is in the world.

There are many positives to be had from a good relationship between our communities. As many others here also do, I often litter pick an area before leaving. Not my own litter but that of other visitors. It all helps to create a nice atmosphere but there are many other benefits, including extra income for local businesses (Wild Campers are 12 month visitors)

A village i visit on a regular basis, had raised funds to buy a defibrillator and site it on a box outside, for all the community to use, if needed. Alas they are not confident in its use, as training was not included. A member of our Wild Camping forum, is visiting soon to deliver some free training in its use.

I wonder if Masham has a publicly sited defibrillator? and if you do, is there a need for some more training?

Thank you to the person from Masham PC, who posted on here, to keep us updated. Maybe it could be the start of a good and mutually beneficial relationship between our communities?

Hopefully Tom (Parish Clerk) will visit us and read this thread, if not someone might invite him:

mashamparishclerk@gmail.com
Click to expand...

This is the most recent record that I could find. Item 6 may or may not be a different issue, but certainly no declaration of interest by the chair. http://hub.datanorthyorkshire.org/d...-b818-8ce8dbb18625/download/minutes-2017.docx
 
I think earlier minutes would show the initial discussion of the subject but i am sure it will be there.
 
The height barrier was agreed at the July 2016 meeting, as an attempt to prevent travellers entering en route to Appleby. Coun. Grainger at an earlier meeting was mentioned as having done some research at the DEFRA site regarding protections for designated village greens. As yet I have seen no declaration of a conflict of interest in the matter.
 
Maybe this will be the start of a new kind of Twinning :baby: :baby:

It is clear it was done with the aim of reducing the distress and disruption caused by visitors to the horse fair. It would seem then that the good folk of Wild Camping are just collateral damage, to a larger problem.

Given the opportunity, I am sure both communities will find mutually beneficial ground.
 
Masham PC said:
Dear All

Masham Parish Council manages the area in Masham known as the Recreation Ground, this being where the cricket ground and tennis courts are located. Adjacent to the Recreation Ground is an open grassed area known locally as the Shooting Holme. This is in fact the Village Green and as such has protected status, which includes the prohibiting of overnight camping.

Very occasionally we have noted that motorhome or caravans are parked overnight despite the presence of a large notice prohibiting this use. Indeed it is apparent that there is a perception that this type of camping is allowed. I have to advise you that this is not the case. Whilst it is true that the area is a beautiful riverside location, it is not considered suitable for overnight parking and this fact is clearly stated on the signage in the entrance area. As a result I have been requested to advise you that in order to prevent further occurrences the council has now erected a height restriction barrier that will deny access to these vehicles. I do hope that you will understand the reasoning behind this decision.

It should be noted that there are a number of camp sites in the area, all of whom are open to visitors, and of course the town of Masham welcomes visitors to its historic market square, wonderful countryside and local breweries.
Click to expand...

I would point out that the barrier has been erected in response to the annual influx of travellers around the Appleby fair and not in response to "very occasional" motorhome or caravan overnight parking. I think it would have been better for the new member Masham PC to make this clear. Their personal interests in local campsites should also have been made clear, and probably declared at the PC meetings discussing the travellers and their control, particularly if the controls are claimed to be in response to occasional overnight parkers who apparently should use said campsites.
 
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