Leisure Battery

Did someone mention pints, ta (y)
Any way its all down to what you want and use,if heavy then go expensive, light use as in lights and maybe a tad of tv then standard batteries are ok.
 
SquirrellCook said:
Power going into a battery or bank is power going in. Put a pint in a gallon container and put a pint in a five gallon container and you have still only put a pint in.
Remember with a lead acid battery, that last 10% of capacity is hard work to put in.
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And also remember that at least 5% of the pint going in is 'spilt' (charger losses), and another 10% or so is wasted (charging losses aka "Coulombic efficiency"). so for every 100W your Solar Panel may be harvesting, the battery charge will only increase by 85W maximum.

bartman said:
I was unaware of the lead carbon type of battery, looks very interesting.
I've had a couple of Banner 90AH for about 3 years, they've been OK but as has been said they do require the electrolyte level to be monitored and topped up, they're not a sealed battery. I'm guessing that they are nearing the end of their useful life as the multi stage smart charger which I fitted at the beginning of the year always goes to the "recondition" phase when hooked up, before eventually going to "float". The high voltage of the "recondition" stage makes the batteries gas quite a lot (they are well vented!), resulting in even more frequent topping up.

Having read that the lead carbon batteries charge 8 times faster than normal lead acid batteries, I'm wondering whether I could manage with just the one 130AH lead carbon battery with my 150 watt solar panel to keep it topped up. Would the faster charging time compensate to an extent for the lower light levels at this time of year?
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Where did you read that Lead Carbon charge 8 times faster? Yes, they will charge up usefully and notably faster, but not 8 times faster. With a 130Ah Battery for example, a 150W Panel will not charge a Lead Carbon any faster then a Wet Cell anyway. The PV Panel is the bottleneck there, not the battery.

I would say a 130Ah Lead Carbon Battery would give better performance than a pair of 90Ah Banners. With the Banners you would need to be wary of getting more than 90Ah out of them as their charge cycle count would start to drop dramatically. With the 130Ah Lead Carbon, you could use 80% of that capacity (so 106Ah) time after time and still have a charge cycle count 2 or 3 times more than the Banners when taking just 50% out of them.
 
Thanks Wildebus, I know you shouldn't take everything found on an internet search as gospel, but I found that said on a couple of sites - this is one of them, I hope I've understood it correctly http://www.gslithiumbattery.com/news/advantages-and-disadvantages-of-lead-carbon-ba-16165986.html

What do you reckon about the charger going into "recondition" every time? According to the instructions, it should only do that if the "battery test" phase fails after the "absorption" phase is completed.

Just looked at the slightly smaller Ritar 100AH battery on the Alpha site, and they say there " Lead Carbon AGM batteries are true "deep cycle" and can completely re-charge from 4 to 10 times faster than regular lead acid batteries"
Having quoted that I fully acept that you know your stuff Wildebus, and I'm sure that what you say about the PV panel is correct. They don't say in what scenario that sort of charge rate could be achieved!
 
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bartman said:
Thanks Wildebus, I know you shouldn't take everything found on an internet search as gospel, but I found that said on a couple of sites - this is one of them, I hope I've understood it correctly http://www.gslithiumbattery.com/news/advantages-and-disadvantages-of-lead-carbon-ba-16165986.html

What do you reckon about the charger going into "recondition" every time? According to the instructions, it should only do that if the "battery test" phase fails after the "absorption" phase is completed.

Just looked at the slightly smaller Ritar 100AH battery on the Alpha site, and they say there " Lead Carbon AGM batteries are true "deep cycle" and can completely re-charge from 4 to 10 times faster than regular lead acid batteries"
Having quoted that I fully acept that you know your stuff Wildebus, and I'm sure that what you say about the PV panel is correct. They don't say in what scenario that sort of charge rate could be achieved!
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Shouldn't go into Recondition as a matter of course. Maybe once a month absolute tops I would want unless you are trying to fix a bad battery.

The Max charge current for that Ritar Battery is 30A. If you look at a site like the "Caravan" one people like to link to, I think there is a comment on there regarding 'normal' batteries should be charged no faster than C10 or even C20 (e.g, 10A or 5A for a 100Ah Battery). I think that is a little too cautious, but it is a popular idea, and would tie up with a 6x difference.
If you had a 30A B2B, you could be pushing in 30A into the Lead Carbon battery for much longer than a basic battery could take it, so without a doubt would be an improvement on charging.

Where the Lead Carbons really come into their own within the "Lead Acid Battery" World is the much better charge cycles and amount you can pull out of them. That Ritar battery you mentioned (https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/1...ad-carbon-ultra-deep-cycle-battery-dc12-100c/) is especially good in that respect. You can go down to a 90% DoD (so pretty well close to Lithium and much better than a Wet Cell Lead Acid battery) - and even taking 90% out day after day, it is still rated at around 1800 cycles - that is 9 times better than a Banner Bull Wet cell going down to 50% DoD (just 200 cycles).
 
From what I see of the specs, and your solar, it will only charge at the same rate as your Banners (if they are in good nick), you could double your solar panels and still the charging would be similar, to get the Carbon-Lead charging at just four times you would need to then quadruple your panels (8 times what you have now), but as wildebus points out, if you are using other charging such as B2B you would start to see a improvement.
 
Ferris day off said:
Mine's active all the time.
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Seems to be a common thing that on cars they are ignition controlled, and on vans always powered? (although having said that, my Ducato one is ignition controlled).

Ferris day off said:
If such is the case will it be charging SB first and then after fully charging the SB trickle charging the LB?
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Common misconception.
If you have a voltage controlled relay or B2B, then as soon as the voltage reaches the set "on" threshold, the device turns on and charging of the Leisure Battery commences. It is not a matter of the Starter getting fully charged first.
What IS true to say is that if the Starter battery is low, then that will be charged initially and for longer without the Leisure battery getting any charge as the voltage will be too low to turn the Split-Charge device on.
 
The demands on a leisure battery are not what they were. "Fred can't live without his microwave, he's sure his sausage will explode one day"
For people with these excessive domestic demands a traction battery might be better. Leisure batteries were originally for keeping your glow worms glowing for hours on end.
 
mistericeman said:
What do we think of these....

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

019 Nordstar EFB Carbon Stop Start Car Battery - Alpha Batteries

START-STOP Carbon EFB batteries are intended primarily for vehicles with the START-STOP system. They are also ideal for ordinary cars as […]
www.alpha-batteries.co.uk www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

Not listed as leisure batteries BUT must take some punishment as a stop start battery?
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I have the Lead-Calcium battery version of the same battery in my VW LT (went for that version as has 5 year warranty rather than 3 year of the Nordstar Carbon). Seems excellent as a starter.
The Lead Carbon batteries being discussed are a version of AGM Batteries
The EFB Carbon is a version of Wet Cell Batteries. probably better than a Wet Battery as a Leisure, but not as good as a AGM (and I would think should be vented if inside and not in a vehicle battery box).
 
fiona b said:
Thanks to all for advice. We were going to go for lithium but in the end settled on a lead carbon battery with 135ah and 500 cycles (194 before discount) from alpha. Our campervan is 9 years old and sassuming she keeps going, likely we may change in ca 10 years when we retire, although will be hard thing to do, so lithium didn't make sense. Thanks again
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Just spotted typo, should be 1500 cycles not 500! With regard to other replies all we use the battery for is Webasto heating/hot water, lighting, fridge and gadget charging.
 
Very interesting thread, thanks to all the contributors.
I have 2 off 100 Ah Banner batteries, less than a year old, and they dont work as I need them to.
I have a 50A B2B which initially charges them at 40Amps but very soon drops to a paltry 12A, so a journey of 2 hours only puts in about 20 % capacity ( my solar doesnt add much here in winter in Scotland).
Very interested in a couple of lead carbons now, so will follow others experiences with interest, especially as I need good capacity at temps below 0C.
 
davep10000 said:
Very interesting thread, thanks to all the contributors.
I have 2 off 100 Ah Banner batteries, less than a year old, and they dont work as I need them to.
I have a 50A B2B which initially charges them at 40Amps but very soon drops to a paltry 12A, so a journey of 2 hours only puts in about 20 % capacity ( my solar doesnt add much here in winter in Scotland).
Very interested in a couple of lead carbons now, so will follow others experiences with interest, especially as I need good capacity at temps below 0C.
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What physical size are your Banner Batteries? The Leoch Lead Carbon batteries mentioned are very good and would likely fit in their place. The new Ritar batteries are a similar capacity but a higher price - but have a very high charge cycle count and projected service life (15 years) which makes up for that.
I will be getting a couple of the 100Ah Ritar Batteries next week when they come into stock :)
 
wildebus said:
What physical size are your Banner Batteries? The Leoch Lead Carbon batteries mentioned are very good and would likely fit in their place. The new Ritar batteries are a similar capacity but a higher price - but have a very high charge cycle count and projected service life (15 years) which makes up for that.
I will be getting a couple of the 100Ah Ritar Batteries next week when they come into stock :)
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The ritar batteries are 30mm higher than the banners but look far superior for the £200 (-discount) price tag. Please Let us know how you get on!
 
fiona b said:
Hi
We have a Bannerbull leisure battery and about to have to replace it for the 3rd time (van is 9 years old).
Majority of our camping is not on sites and never use EHU.
Any suggestions as to what is best battery to replace it with for longer life.
Thanks
Fiona
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I have just changed my lead acid batteries to lithium they will last longer and hold full voltage for a longer time. In the long run will work out economical.
 
fiona b said:
Hi
We have a Bannerbull leisure battery and about to have to replace it for the 3rd time (van is 9 years old).
Majority of our camping is not on sites and never use EHU.
Any suggestions as to what is best battery to replace it with for longer life.
Thanks
Fiona
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You have done well getting 3 years out of your batteries. I use Euro car parts house brand and I am pressed to get 2 seasons use out of them before they hold so little charge as to be useless.
 
Technispark said:
You have done well getting 3 years out of your batteries. I use Euro car parts house brand and I am pressed to get 2 seasons use out of them before they hold so little charge as to be useless.
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I've had close on 5 years out of my previous flooded lead acid Xplorers...

And they have had some hammer (all cooking was electric via a 3000w inverter) Though I have been careful on keeping them in good order and being wary of over discharge.
 
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