KSEnergy lithium batteries - are they genuine drop in replacements?

Moped

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KS Energy claim that their lithium batteries have built in charging management systems that make them a simple drop in replacement for a lead acid leisure battery.

We have a motorhome with a Sargent EC652 power box and built in transformer, a Fiat Ducato smart alternator, a 100w solar panel and a Sargent solar controller.

So can we simply disconnect and remove the lead acid leisure battery and reconnect and replace it with a KS lithium battery?

Without doing a single modification to any other component?

A simple yes or no please if possible together with any user experiences of KS Lithium batteries if possible.
 
No
dont charge at same rate as car wet acid battery.
Lithium battery
You will Just need to change setting on your Sargent solar controller for lithium setting if available! but not had make of solar controller = sc ! So mite need to change sc unit out . and if vans chargeing unit from 240 v setting on that also .or replace if not
Lithium battery 2022
Ill look for blutooth battery manament system = bms . inside batteries and temp sensors also ! as it saves a
smart shunt as bms can show power useage on phone app.

. Ho ! And then wire sizes . So about £1 500.00 more . on 3 small boxes but your get change. And sell replaced items including wet batteries.

You will love it after a little time while away in van
 
Check your charging system my Sargent 328 is 14.4 and 13.8 witch is compatible to some lithium batterys , suppliers put in the small print ,the purchaser must ensure the battery is sutable for their system .I think the answer to your question is nobody knows .
 
If you have Gel settings then you can probably use those. Not ideal but a lot of lithium batteries can work with that setting, albeit could reduce battery life
 
Nabsim said:
If you have Gel settings then you can probably use those. Not ideal but a lot of lithium batteries can work with that setting, albeit could reduce battery life
Click to expand...
The Sargent units have preset outputs - so on the EC652 it is 14.4V for Absorption going down to 13.6V for Float and those settings can be used for Lithium.

My main concern is the Lithium Batteries can take a full rate charge puts a potentially undesigned for stress on the 300W Charger in the Sargent Unit, which would not usually run at full power for hours. I'd always advocate a better & separate charger for improved performance, quieter running and avoid the increased likelyhood of a failed Sargent PDU.
 
Moped said:
KS Energy claim that their lithium batteries have built in charging management systems that make them a simple drop in replacement for a lead acid leisure battery.

We have a motorhome with a Sargent EC652 power box and built in transformer, a Fiat Ducato smart alternator, a 100w solar panel and a Sargent solar controller.

So can we simply disconnect and remove the lead acid leisure battery and reconnect and replace it with a KS lithium battery?

Without doing a single modification to any other component?

A simple yes or no please if possible together with any user experiences of KS Lithium batteries if possible.
Click to expand...
Yes - Just bought one and replaced two lead acid batteries - I contacted them first with details of my solar and built in charger - all I had to do was slide a switch inside my charger to a GEL battery setting - so far my 100 watts of solar and an old PWN solar regulator are keeping it charged up.
 
torwood said:
Yes - Just bought one and replaced two lead acid batteries - I contacted them first with details of my solar and built in charger - all I had to do was slide a switch inside my charger to a GEL battery setting - so far my 100 watts of solar and an old PWN solar regulator are keeping it charged up.
Click to expand...
Change the regulator to a mppt votronic, make one hell of a difference. 😂
 
Moped said:
KS Energy claim that their lithium batteries have built in charging management systems that make them a simple drop in replacement for a lead acid leisure battery.

We have a motorhome with a Sargent EC652 power box and built in transformer, a Fiat Ducato smart alternator, a 100w solar panel and a Sargent solar controller.

So can we simply disconnect and remove the lead acid leisure battery and reconnect and replace it with a KS lithium battery?

Without doing a single modification to any other component?

A simple yes or no please if possible together with any user experiences of KS Lithium batteries if possible.
Click to expand...
Yes I have had a KS Lithium for 4 years and it has been excellent. I put an mppt controller on my solar with Lithium settings and have wild camped for 5 days without moving and the battery was still at 100% it was in summer.
 
Moped said:
KS Energy claim that their lithium batteries have built in charging management systems that make them a simple drop in replacement for a lead acid leisure battery.

We have a motorhome with a Sargent EC652 power box and built in transformer, a Fiat Ducato smart alternator, a 100w solar panel and a Sargent solar controller.

So can we simply disconnect and remove the lead acid leisure battery and reconnect and replace it with a KS lithium battery?

Without doing a single modification to any other component?

A simple yes or no please if possible together with any user experiences of KS Lithium batteries if possible.
Click to expand...
Hi Moped, I know you'd like a simple yes/no answer but if I may I'll throw in my two penneth worth.
There is one big disadvantage with lithuim and that's their cost.
Apart from weight and size their big advantage over a lead carbon battery is speed of charging and in order to charge quickly they need to accept a high charge current from your mains battery charger or alternator and as wildbus alluded to this increased current could cause problems with the wiring and associated system as a whole.
KS energy could well have made their lithiums a true drop in replacement for lead acid types by using a built in charging management but that sounds like they've possibly introduced current limiting to the charging rate. This now means you've lost one of the big advantages of lithium and your left with outweighing the extra cost with them being smaller and lighter.
Personally I couldn't justify paying £700 for a KS lithium when I could get similar performance from a lead carbon costing £165.
What's right for you will depend on your personal situation and needs but genuinely please consider lead carbon before spending mega bucks on lithium.
Lithium batteries arn't 'magical' and just like ANY battery you cant get more power out than you've put in so anecdotes such as the one above from mikebike should be viewed in context (sorry mikebike) and lead carbon batteries would have performed just as well.
Merl
 
merl said:
Hi Moped, I know you'd like a simple yes/no answer but if I may I'll throw in my two penneth worth.
There is one big disadvantage with lithuim and that's their cost.
Apart from weight and size their big advantage over a lead carbon battery is speed of charging and in order to charge quickly they need to accept a high charge current from your mains battery charger or alternator and as wildbus alluded to this increased current could cause problems with the wiring and associated system as a whole.
KS energy could well have made their lithiums a true drop in replacement for lead acid types by using a built in charging management but that sounds like they've possibly introduced current limiting to the charging rate. This now means you've lost one of the big advantages of lithium and your left with outweighing the extra cost with them being smaller and lighter.
Personally I couldn't justify paying £700 for a KS lithium when I could get similar performance from a lead carbon costing £165.
What's right for you will depend on your personal situation and needs but genuinely please consider lead carbon before spending mega bucks on lithium.
Lithium batteries arn't 'magical' and just like ANY battery you cant get more power out than you've put in so anecdotes such as the one above from mikebike should be viewed in context (sorry mikebike) and lead carbon batteries would have performed just as well.
Merl
Click to expand...

On your last point, it is quite frustrating when somone says "... since I fitted a Lithium Battery from [insert vendor], I never need to charge it",or "it never drops below 90%", or essentially words to those effects.
This comment is not aimed at any particular person but you see those posts on so many forums :(
I guess you could argue that as so many people say it it must be true, but this is the Internet of course :) What is true is 1000Wh is 1000Wh whether that be stored in a Lithium Battery or a Lead Battery.

What IS true to say to slightly contradict myself and disagree with Merl a tad is that apart from the speed of charging advantage Lithium has, it IS more efficient on converting charging energy into stored energy, so 100Wh worth of solar could result in an extra 98Wh into the battery, whereas with Lead it might be just 90Wh, so Lithium makes more use of limited Solar so could take a Lithium back up to full more efficiently, but it is not an overwhelming benefit by any means.
 
wildebus said:
On your last point, it is quite frustrating when somone says "... since I fitted a Lithium Battery from [insert vendor], I never need to charge it",or "it never drops below 90%", or essentially words to those effects.
This comment is not aimed at any particular person but you see those posts on so many forums :(
I guess you could argue that as so many people say it it must be true, but this is the Internet of course :) What is true is 1000Wh is 1000Wh whether that be stored in a Lithium Battery or a Lead Battery.

What IS true to say to slightly contradict myself and disagree with Merl a tad is that apart from the speed of charging advantage Lithium has, it IS more efficient on converting charging energy into stored energy, so 100Wh worth of solar could result in an extra 98Wh into the battery, whereas with Lead it might be just 90Wh, so Lithium makes more use of limited Solar so could take a Lithium back up to full more efficiently, but it is not an overwhelming benefit by any means.
Click to expand...
Hi David,
Lead carbon is considerably more efficient than standard lead acid mate, 95% for lead carbon and 97% for lithium so not a great deal between them tbh.
Merl
 
Thinking of starting a new thread " since I installed my lead carbon battery".........
I'll start it off, Ahem.
Since I installed my lead carbon battery women cant keep their hands off of me :):unsure::oops:
Your turn David, gotta fight back!
 
merl said:
Hi David,
Lead carbon is considerably more efficient than standard lead acid mate, 95% for lead carbon and 97% for lithium so not a great deal between them tbh.
Merl
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I think there is a bigger difference.
Anyway, as far as the difference and benefits of Lithium and Lead Carbon are concerned, I am fairly well placed to compare as I have both Lead Carbon (3 off) and Lithium (2 off) in my Motorhome :)
 
merl said:
Hi Moped, I know you'd like a simple yes/no answer but if I may I'll throw in my two penneth worth.
There is one big disadvantage with lithuim and that's their cost.
Apart from weight and size their big advantage over a lead carbon battery is speed of charging and in order to charge quickly they need to accept a high charge current from your mains battery charger or alternator and as wildbus alluded to this increased current could cause problems with the wiring and associated system as a whole.
KS energy could well have made their lithiums a true drop in replacement for lead acid types by using a built in charging management but that sounds like they've possibly introduced current limiting to the charging rate. This now means you've lost one of the big advantages of lithium and your left with outweighing the extra cost with them being smaller and lighter.
Personally I couldn't justify paying £700 for a KS lithium when I could get similar performance from a lead carbon costing £165.
What's right for you will depend on your personal situation and needs but genuinely please consider lead carbon before spending mega bucks on lithium.
Lithium batteries arn't 'magical' and just like ANY battery you cant get more power out than you've put in so anecdotes such as the one above from mikebike should be viewed in context (sorry mikebike) and lead carbon batteries would have performed just as well.
Merl
Click to expand...
Visited RoadPro at the Motorhome Show today and they did say that with the standard Swift setup of Sargent box, Fiat alternator and 100w solar panel they would need to fit a battery charger to speed up the charging rate, and they would need to check the wiring to make sure it could handle the power passing through them. But that is with the fitting of one of their batteries.

They could also boost the solar charging with additional panels but they might need to bypass the Sargent box.

For us it is about charging ebike batteries, toaster, microwave, kettle, expresso coffee maker and even an electric oven as well as extending the life off grid of the 12v systems although existing solar panel arrangements are sufficient for the current lead acid 12v use top ups.

So we would be relatively heavy users of lithium if off grid.

Other than wild camping in France and Spain, money would be saved by not requiring site hook up at say £5 a night with many sites in Spain metering the electric anyway.

And in the U.K. grass only pitches can be had for £7 to £10 a night but as soon as you go for upmarket hard standing and hook up it seems to be £20 minimum these days.

Given that we live in the motorhome 8 months of the year or 220 to 240 days annually, there are potentially big savings to be made with payback in 2 years or even less for any system installed.

Yes I accept the high upfront cost which, for a light user who might only use the van or caravan during school holidays, does not make economic sense, but for us as heavy users has a relatively quick payback after which we have free electric and regular lower cost camping if we stop on sites.

It really depends on how much we change our usage with the power freedoms and opportunities to save money as we move forward if we proceed with this type of investment.
 
Hi Moped,
One size fit's all is something that's never true in the world of m/home ownership and like I said "What's right for you will depend on your personal situation and needs".It seems that your not 100% certain of your future requirements at the moment and Like so many threads on tinterweb we've wandered a little away from the original post topic but my advice re lead carbon batteries and their 'bang for buck' stays sound.
Your total battery capacity needs will depend largely on the load and your list suggests quite a demand I must say! Basically it seems you intend to live a 'normal' lifestyle with lots of thirsty electrical items 'off grid' and that's not easy at all. You're going to need many hundreds of Ah of batteries and those batteries are going to need charging pretty regularly and even a van roof full of solar panels aren't going to cut it. Depending on the amount of sunshine available you'll need to supplement with charging from the alternator either when driving or just running the engine so you'll have wear and tear on the engine and additional fuel costs to factor in, sometimes it's just best to pay a fiver for hookup!
Merl
 
One thing I will say, with your proposed use off grid if it is in the U.K. then for 5 months of the year you will need EHU or a generator unless you are doing a good few hours travelling each day. Lifepo4 are very good if they fit your use I am very pleased with mine but I changed everything to get the best of them. The problem is getting enough charge to replace your usage. If your current system isn’t doing it on lead acid then nothing will change except you initially get longer before running low on power.
I did note you mention France and Spain though so if your 5 months poor U.K. solar is spent there you could be okay but uorating your solar. You need to be able to replace what you use though 👍
 
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