KSEnergy lithium batteries - are they genuine drop in replacements?

[Moped]

One question then.

Is a lead carbon battery a drop in replacement for a lead acid battery in that it has the same charging profile that a Sargent PX300 charger will accommodate?

 

[Nabsim]

Lead carbon is very heavy, that’s a massive drawback for some

 

[wildebus]

One question then.

Is a lead carbon battery a drop in replacement for a lead acid battery in that it has the same charging profile that a Sargent PX300 charger will accommodate?

Lead Carbon has a different set of preferred voltages (they are actually closer to Lithium than standard Lead Acid) but it is close enough.

 

[Moped]

Lead Carbon has a different set of preferred voltages (they are actually closer to Lithium than standard Lead Acid) but it is close enough.

Is that close enough to lead acid or close enough to lithium?

What I want to avoid is this absorption phase that AGM batteries have and can they handle the maintenance charging phase?

I have been looking at lead carbon and the batteries do look interesting. Weight is not an issue as we have plenty of spare payload.

 

[1 Cup]

If no to spending buget of £1500.00 3k then you can't solve your issue. This week maybe by 2024 fof £800
Battery 700
Controller 200
B2b 30amo 200
Wire plus lugs 100
Fitting 200
Replace inverter charger solar panel extra 1500

And its just the bike power that you need lipo for . Then buy extra battery's for the bikes and or peddle more..lol cheapes option.
A bigger fast charger 60 amp min for 36v 48v bikes would better £100 ,!,,,,,for a coffee at coffee 1 plug socket is only £7 a time for 2, So mite as well paid for electric on site lol option 2

Higher voltages 48v are cheaper products 12v is the most expensive
you could change your system without batteries for the price above
but I think you like what you have .? Change will come for ya I hope befor 2024.

 

[merl]

Lead carbon is very heavy, that’s a massive drawback for some

True, but no heavier than standard lead acid and arguably 1/2 their weight because they potentially have twice the useable energy density after you take into account the fact that Carbon batteries are far more tolerant of very deep (up to 100%) discharges.
The deeper you discharge any battery the more you reduce it's life, that is particularly true for standard lead acid and for that reason there is a rule of thumb which says you don't discharge standard lead acid more than 50%, this level of discharge will still harm the battery more than say a 30% discharge but not as much as say a 60% discharge. Bearing in mind that the charge profile of standard lead acid means that unless the battery has received it's absorption/trickle charge phase it will not be 100% fully charged to start with and hence the start level for a discharge cycle is reduced too.
As David said, Lead Carbon charge profile is closer to Lithium and a bulk charge only (no absorption or trickle stages) will take the charge quite close to 100%.
Considering all of the above it means a 100Ah lead carbon is equal/superior to a 200A standard lead acid. Thus a lead carbon battery has around half the weight of standard lead acid for a similar typical cyclic usage.
Merl

 

[merl]

Is that close enough to lead acid or close enough to lithium?

What I want to avoid is this absorption phase that AGM batteries have and can they handle the maintenance charging phase?

I have been looking at lead carbon and the batteries do look interesting. Weight is not an issue as we have plenty of spare payload.

Is that close enough to lead acid or close enough to lithium?

You can use either profile to charge carbon but you'll get slightly more into the battery if they receive an absorption phase too.
Why do you want to avoid the absorption phase?
Merl

 

[Wooie1958]

Is that close enough to lead acid or close enough to lithium?

You can use either profile to charge carbon but you'll get slightly more into the battery if they receive an absorption phase too.
Why do you want to avoid the absorption phase?
Merl

Does it matter, if the OP want to avoid it then it`s their decision and so be it.

 

[Alshymer]

KS Energy claim that their lithium batteries have built in charging management systems that make them a simple drop in replacement for a lead acid leisure battery.

We have a motorhome with a Sargent EC652 power box and built in transformer, a Fiat Ducato smart alternator, a 100w solar panel and a Sargent solar controller.

So can we simply disconnect and remove the lead acid leisure battery and reconnect and replace it with a KS lithium battery?

Without doing a single modification to any other component?

A simple yes or no please if possible together with any user experiences of KS Lithium batteries if possible.

Hi.
Whether there is such a thing as a drop in lithium officially I don’t know, but I substituted the 2 original batteries on my Rapido 4 years ago for 1 Relion 100ah battery without making any changes at all, apart from altering the Victron BM settings.
I am absolutely delighted with the result and had no problems.
I have lived in the van permanently as well for the past 18 months totally off grid!!
Best thing I ever did.

 

[Moped]

Is that close enough to lead acid or close enough to lithium?

You can use either profile to charge carbon but you'll get slightly more into the battery if they receive an absorption phase too.
Why do you want to avoid the absorption phase?
Merl

The Sargent PX300 original equipment charger in the EC651, whilst it has 3 phase charging, it does not have an absorption phase. I simply want to substitute a lead acid battery with something better without having to replace any of the charging equipment.

If It means the battery is charged to 95% and not fully but it has a deeper discharge then that’s good enough for me. Unless of course the battery is killed off in no time as a result. 500-700 cycles with Lead Carbon seems a reasonable expectation and if I loose 100 of these then again it’s not a show stopper.

 

[merl]

Does it matter, if the OP want to avoid it then it`s their decision and so be it.

Of course
I guess it's a help issue.
If the OP is under a false impression about avoiding the absorption phase then I'm sure they'd like that info, I know I would.
Moped is completely free to tell me to butt out at any time and I will do so without issue or hard feelings.
Too long in the tooth for any anger issue with anyone mate.
  Merl

 

[merl]

The Sargent PX300 original equipment charger in the EC651, whilst it has 3 phase charging, it does not have an absorption phase. I simply want to substitute a lead acid battery with something better without having to replace any of the charging equipment.

If It means the battery is charged to 95% and not fully but it has a deeper discharge then that’s good enough for me. Unless of course the battery is killed off in no time as a result. 500-700 cycles with Lead Carbon seems a reasonable expectation and if I loose 100 of these then again it’s not a show stopper.

The Sargent WIll have an absorption phase mate (on any non lithium setting) it may be called something else by Sargent though, probably the 'constant voltage' stage, same difference
Merl

 

[wildebus]

I think what I will do is run my Motorhome on the Lead Carbon batteries for a day with no charging and the usual loads; then switch to run it on the Lithium, again with no charging and the same usual loads, then recharge each one in turn and see what happens as a like-for-like comparison of the Ahs taken out* and the time to recharge.
This will give a real-life picture of how the two technologies compare on an indentical setup.


*you might think the Ahs out will be the same but they won't in fact due to the voltage differences. The WATT-Hours may be the same, but the AMP-Hours will be different.

(I thought I posted this message this morning . Anyway, at 11:00 I stopped all charging and prevented the Lithium from reconnecting, so running solely on Lead Carbon now until maybe 11:00 tomorrow (might go for longer, might not).

 

[mistericeman]

The Sargent WIll have an absorption phase mate (on any non lithium setting) it may be called something else by Sargent though.
Merl

 

[merl]

yep, constant voltage stage.

 

[merl]

I think what I will do is run my Motorhome on the Lead Carbon batteries for a day with no charging and the usual loads; then switch to run it on the Lithium, again with no charging and the same usual loads, then recharge each one in turn and see what happens as a like-for-like comparison of the Ahs taken out* and the time to recharge.
This will give a real-life picture of how the two technologies compare on an indentical setup.


*you might think the Ahs out will be the same but they won't in fact due to the voltage differences. The WATT-Hours may be the same, but the AMP-Hours will be different.

(I thought I posted this message this morning . Anyway, at 11:00 I stopped all charging and prevented the Lithium from reconnecting, so running solely on Lead Carbon now until maybe 11:00 tomorrow (might go for longer, might not).

Super!
Will certainly be interesting to see the results, look forward to seeing them.
Merl

 

[merl]

Hi.
Whether there is such a thing as a drop in lithium officially I don’t know, but I substituted the 2 original batteries on my Rapido 4 years ago for 1 Relion 100ah battery without making any changes at all, apart from altering the Victron BM settings.
I am absolutely delighted with the result and had no problems.
I have lived in the van permanently as well for the past 18 months totally off grid!!
Best thing I ever did.

You really should be whispering this sort of post mate, David will be along in a while and he'll give you a right ticking off!