Highlands News - New £40 voluntary campervan pass launched...

[gasgas]

I think I 'Give something back' as it is ....

Pretty much emptied the Kilchoan stores of alcohol and bread/bacon

Plus a full tank of fuel
And 2 weeks camping fees to Sanna campsite

Along with eating out several times at various places we stopped .

In the early 1970's the French Government didn't know if allowing motorhomes to stop overnight in towns was a benefit to, or a drag on the local community. They commissioned an independent survey to find out. The conclusion was that allowing campervans / motorhomes to stop in towns was a benefit so it became mandatory for local mayors to provide overnight parking for mh / cavans.
Thus said the introduction in the owner's manual of a Rapido I bought new a couple of years ago. Thus we have free overnights wherever we go in France. And most of Germany, I can't speak for the rest of Europe. Sometimes in Germany we have had to pay €1 for water and toilet dump, and on one memorable occasion 'had' to pay €3 for overnight parking, but that was in the centre of Wurtsburg.
Thus we choose to pay £200 for a return ferry fee in exchange for a month or more of 'free' camping sites.

 

[Fisherman]

Ok had 24 hours to digest this and it still rankles me.
So let’s get the first bit out of the way

I DID NOT AGREE TO SUPPORT LOCAL ECONOMIES WHEN I BOUGHT A MOTORHOME.
I have to date purchased three new vans in 7 years and my vat stands at £32,000.
Were has all of that money gone, I must have contributed enough to finance several elsan points alone by now. Then we have road fund licence currently I think it’s £325.
Fuel tax, and on and on.
So we have to help finance toilet facilities, will these toilets come with elsan points, and will we have sole access to them.
It’s targeted at the socially conscious, so the fact that I reckon they have a cheek YET AGAIN singling us out from the rest and would never give them this £40 means I have no social conscience. Also those with a social conscience, are not the idiots causing the problems, and there’s absolutely no chance these people without one will contribute, and guess who will be subsidising them.
On my recent trip round the NC500 in April, there were lots of vans, and I can honestly say I saw no issues involving them. But these vans were outnumbered at least 50 to one with cars, some high performance cars parked up in passing places, doing handbrake turns at the Kyleschu bridge, and driving about like it was a rally race.
Sorry but I reckon we pay up front when we spend tens of thousands on our vans, and a large part of this goes into government coffers, that’s were the money should come from. And instead of seeing us as a problem to be dealt with, or cash cows burdened with a social conscience, just treat us like everyone else who travels our roads, and visits the carparks, that we contribute towards more heavily than most.

 

[marchie]

Ok had 24 hours to digest this and it still rankles me.
So let’s get the first bit out of the way

I DID NOT AGREE TO SUPPORT LOCAL ECONOMIES WHEN I BOUGHT A MOTORHOME.
I have to date purchased three new vans in 7 years and my vat stands at £32,000.
Were has all of that money gone, I must have contributed enough to finance several elsan points alone by now. Then we have road fund licence currently I think it’s £325.
Fuel tax, and on and on.
So we have to help finance toilet facilities, will these toilets come with elsan points, and will we have sole access to them.
It’s targeted at the socially conscious, so the fact that I reckon they have a cheek YET AGAIN singling us out from the rest and would never give them this £40 means I have no social conscience. Also those with a social conscience, are not the idiots causing the problems, and there’s absolutely no chance these people without one will contribute, and guess who will be subsidising them.
On my recent trip round the NC500 in April, there were lots of vans, and I can honestly say I saw no issues involving them. But these vans were outnumbered at least 50 to one with cars, some high performance cars parked up in passing places, doing handbrake turns at the Kyleschu bridge, and driving about like it was a rally race.
Sorry but I reckon we pay up front when we spend tens of thousands on our vans, and a large part of this goes into government coffers, that’s were the money should come from. And instead of seeing us as a problem to be dealt with, or cash cows burdened with a social conscience, just treat us like everyone else who travels our roads, and visits the carparks, that we contribute towards more heavily than most.

The UK taxation system doesn't function like you describe. Starting with with the Social Security/Welfare Budget, your N.I. contributions are nowhere near enough to cover the cost of State Pension, Hospital Care, Unemployment payments, disability payments etc. These are funded, in the main, from general taxation, and that includes VAT on your private vehicles and motorhomes etc, and supplemented by Central Government borrowing, both short and long term. When we take the Motorhome away, we use local services, that create an additional demand on services funded mainly by local taxpayers, so contributing a relatively small sum to the local economy gives some return for the initial local authority who funded the Aire

There are many free Aires in France and Spain etc, but their tax systems are structured differently. We have just agreed to sell our French hovel [at a loss]; had we made a profit, there would have been a flat rate tax of some 17%, and 19.2% of the profit element ...

Steve

 

[Fisherman]

The UK taxation system doesn't function like you describe. Starting with with the Social Security/Welfare Budget, your N.I. contributions are nowhere near enough to cover the cost of State Pension, Hospital Care, Unemployment payments, disability payments etc. These are funded, in the main, from general taxation, and that includes VAT on your private vehicles and motorhomes etc, and supplemented by Central Government borrowing, both short and long term. When we take the Motorhome away, we use local services, that create an additional demand on services funded mainly by local taxpayers, so contributing a relatively small sum to the local economy gives some return for the initial local authority who funded the Aire

There are many free Aires in France and Spain etc, but their tax systems are structured differently. We have just agreed to sell our French hovel [at a loss]; had we made a profit, there would have been a flat rate tax of some 17%, and 19.2% of the profit element ...

Steve

I was not attempting to explain the uk tax system, which is one of the most complicated on planet earth. Everyone travelling to these locations are a burden to some extent on local communities, but my point was we are singled out for special “attention”. Our vans are our hotels and out B&Bs. However I think if even 10% of what we pay in taxes were put into infrastructure projects which would benefit us and others that would cover what’s required. What is required is action from our national governments, similar to what was done in France.

 

[barryd]

It should be noted that this is £40 a week. Not like a one off or annual fee. I think it would be more successful if it was an annual fee perhaps. I won't be going up there so it doesnt effect me. I was surprised to see a lot of positive responses though both on here and on the usual FB groups. Not seen when that NC500 whingers group has said about it yet though.

 

[Robmac]

It should be noted that this is £40 a week. Not like a one off or annual fee. I think it would be more successful if it was an annual fee perhaps. I won't be going up there so it doesnt effect me. I was surprised to see a lot of positive responses though both on here and on the usual FB groups. Not seen when that NC500 whingers group has said about it yet though.

I've got mixed feelings about it Barry, but the more I think about it the less likely I am to pay it.

I wonder how long until it isn't voluntary?

 

[campervanannie]

I will not be paying it until the young locals that camp throughout the summer leaving all their camping gear @nd burnt out bbqs and £$%^ trails in the woods and at side of locks with the tons of empty beer bottles and cans discarded camping equipment are targeted by councils yet all the while these councils and goverment bodies are penalising tourists who travel with there own onboard facilities and leave very little signs that they have been there yes I know there are a few wrong ones amongst us so come on Scotland sort out your own feckless buckfast brigade.

 

[marchie]

I was not attempting to explain the uk tax system, which is one of the most complicated on planet earth. Everyone travelling to these locations are a burden to some extent on local communities, but my point was we are singled out for special “attention”. Our vans are our hotels and out B&Bs. However I think if even 10% of what we pay in taxes were put into infrastructure projects which would benefit us and others that would cover what’s required. What is required is action from our national governments, similar to what was done in France.

I don't think M/Homers are singled out for 'special attantion'; we use facilities that are funded by local authorities and local taxpayers, so should expect to pay for the consumption and contribute to the local economy, in the same way as people using local B&Bs and hotels do

You seem to confuse the national and the local effects of taxation. Since about 1973, UK taxation has just gone into one revenue 'pot' that meets every financial demand that public services create, supplemented by Central Government borrowing where necessary. That generality of funding means that there is not the proverbial 'snowball in hell' chance of 10% on infrastructure projects spend; and leading economists and Directors of Thinktanks, including Paul Johnson of IFS, arguably the senior expert on public finances, has said that public services will have to be cut and/or taxes raised to meet the manifesto commitments of the main political parties. And cutting Domiciliary Care Services whilst funding Motorhome Aires has not featured to date ...

Steve

 

[Fisherman]

I don't think M/Homers are singled out for 'special attantion'; we use facilities that are funded by local authorities and local taxpayers, so should expect to pay for the consumption and contribute to the local economy, in the same way as people using local B&Bs and hotels do

You seem to confuse the national and the local effects of taxation. Since about 1973, UK taxation has just gone into one revenue 'pot' that meets every financial demand that public services create, supplemented by Central Government borrowing where necessary. That generality of funding means that there is not the proverbial 'snowball in hell' chance of 10% on infrastructure projects spend; and leading economists and Directors of Thinktanks, including Paul Johnson of IFS, arguably the senior expert on public finances, has said that public services will have to be cut and/or taxes raised to meet the manifesto commitments of the main political parties. And cutting Domiciliary Care Services whilst funding Motorhome Aires has not featured to date ...

Steve

Steve we are singled out.

 

[reiverlad]

The claim is that money will be used to expand the infrastructure.
We all know the current availability of toilets, wastewater infrastructure and more council owned sites are never enough.
If we as motorhomers get to use these additional facilities that are so much in need, everyone wins as the pressure on the existing sites should ease.
I know what we all pay is all too easily forgotten / dismissed - but how else are we gonna get the improvements we want on the trips we make ?

 

[Debroos]

It's just so annoying that, once again, it is assumed we spend little or no money.

 

[runnach]

Oor wee village in France, population, dunno, very small. Yet the village has basic facilities my town does not have, the main one being, basic toilet facility. I asked our council after they closed the only public facility if we could use council toilets, no way, yet we, the CT payer fund the building. There are no facilities similar to France, for example for us folks to park etc.

Why is Scotland and the UK so far behind?

If our small village can provide a free aire, public toilet next to the Maire, why can’t the UK, without trying suck us dry of our hard earned and taxed ££?

 

[Tonybvi]

P & J is reporting today that campsite owners are up in arms about this as the “scheme provides everything a Motorhomer needs and undercuts the campsite prices” so the car parks will become destinations. I recognise a certain level of ignorance in these comments as well as self interest. Interestingly enough it is the Dornoch campsite owners who are leading the protest!

 

[barryd]

I've got mixed feelings about it Barry, but the more I think about it the less likely I am to pay it.

I wonder how long until it isn't voluntary?

They would never get away with enforcing it I don't think Rob and it would require loads of legislation. Can't see how it would work. Its a good idea if it helps set up the infrastructure I guess and you get something for that money but the idea of charging just one sector of travellers only to visit somewhere is discriminatory I reckon.

 

[Robmac]

They would never get away with enforcing it I don't think Rob and it would require loads of legislation. Can't see how it would work. Its a good idea if it helps set up the infrastructure I guess and you get something for that money but the idea of charging just one sector of travellers only to visit somewhere is discriminatory I reckon.

Haven't hotels already started doing it Barry?

I vaguely remember something about a tourist tax per night on hotel rooms but could be wrong?

Not that we need hotels!

 

[barryd]

Haven't hotels already started doing it Barry?

I vaguely remember something about a tourist tax per night on hotel rooms but could be wrong?

Not that we need hotels!

I think tourist taxes in certain areas have been around for a while. I know some campsites in Europe have them. Just not sure how you could apply that to motorhomes. All they could do is tax the facilities they use like campsites and the problem is, they are not the ones they want to cough up.

 

[wildebus]

In reality, and has been pointed out - not that it really needs pointing out as it is bleeding obvious except perhaps to those those are entrusted to make these kind of decisions - the people most likely to abuse facilities and local goodwill will NEVER be those people who will ever pay any voluntary charges.
So it becomes a half-hearted attempt to just raise funds from people who already contribute to the area and will do nothing to fix any kind of anti-social behaviour experienced.
What is more likely is it will put off those people who would otherwise visit and respect the area as they feel they are getting fleeced further and treated as pariahs no matter what they do.

 

[marchie]

Steve we are singled out.

Being 'singled out' for being asked to pay for the services that you, I and other M/Homers use? Don't see how that argument has any logic

Our last trip to Spain cost us precisely zero in Aire Fees [other than £10 in Staffordshire for an overnight on the outward leg] for some 58 nights, including a couple of Aires that offered free EHU. We were delighted to shop locally and to visit local bakers, cafes and bars for the convenience of not having to cycle miles with food shopping etc, and to acknowledge the provision of the Aire by the local Community

Probably best that we agree to differ

Steve

 

[Fisherman]

Being 'singled out' for being asked to pay for the services that you, I and other M/Homers use? Don't see how that argument has any logic

Our last trip to Spain cost us precisely zero in Aire Fees [other than £10 in Staffordshire for an overnight on the outward leg] for some 58 nights, including a couple of Aires that offered free EHU. We were delighted to shop locally and to visit local bakers, cafes and bars for the convenience of not having to cycle miles with food shopping etc, and to acknowledge the provision of the Aire by the local Community

Probably best that we agree to differ

Steve

Really Steve, what about others who use these facilities, folks who drive their with tents, facilities such as toilets and car parks used by car owners, cycle paths for cyclists, hill walkers, and on an on. We alone are being asked to pay for facilities, whilst no one else is. I reckon if we are the only ones using local facilities who are being asked to pay £40 a week, whilst everyone else pays nothing, I reckon that is being singled out. Sorry Steve the proposals don’t mention anyone else apart from us, so by definition we are being singled out. Yes Steve let’s agree to differ, but respect from me for your points.

 

[Scotia]

I will not be paying it until the young locals that camp throughout the summer leaving all their camping gear @nd burnt out bbqs and £$%^ trails in the woods and at side of locks with the tons of empty beer bottles and cans discarded camping equipment are targeted by councils yet all the while these councils and goverment bodies are penalising tourists who travel with there own onboard facilities and leave very little signs that they have been there yes I know there are a few wrong ones amongst us so come on Scotland sort out your own feckless buckfast brigade.

We have LOCHS in Scotland hen!