Hank the Tanks Dodgy battery and solar system

[Tonybvi]

Whatever you choose to do the only guidance I can give is that Nick at VanBitz really knows his stuff and he won’t try to bulls**t you. I even went there recently for them to correct an issue created by a different installer.

 

[Robmac]

I would be interested in opinions as to which option to go for. I really wanted enough power to never have to worry again which to be fair we kind of had on the old van with just a single 120agm and a single 100w panel between April and September but on dull days I would be stingy on power usage.

Outside those times I go looking for hookup anyway.

I just can't get my head round a single 100ah lead carbon being enough. 2 x 85s will of course weigh more which hopefully won't be a concern but it was one advantage of lithium.

I'm definitely going Lithium Barry. One battery which will probably outlast me Long lifespan too and large DOD.

I know that involves other kit as well but I reckon do it right, do it once.

 

[barryd]

Whatever you choose to do the only guidance I can give is that Nick at VanBitz really knows his stuff and he won’t try to bulls**t you. I even went there recently for them to correct an issue created by a different installer.

Yep. I'm not looking anywhere else. It became pretty apparent very quickly I was speaking with a company that is professional and efficient. That's important to me. Not cheap but I feel like I am in good hands. We speak the same language.

My head's done in though (again). I got pissed last night so have a hangover and for the last two hours we have had the slowest knackered old tractor in the world circling the van cutting the grass.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

until you know more I'd just change the battery to a 120ah if it's low enough or the two 85ah, the panel is up to it I think but without a meter telling the output you don't know, then when you get home fit a decent MPPT controller or get VB to do it while you're there, maybe increase the solar, too many variables .

 

[Nabsim]

If you really want an opinion, get a 100Ah lifepo4 delivered to either you or VanBitz and ask them to fit that when you have solar and mppt done. Much smaller and lighter than the lead carbon option and it may even be cheaper because of their markup on the battery

 

[wildebus]

If you really want an opinion, get a 100Ah lifepo4 delivered to either you or VanBitz and ask them to fit that when you have solar and mppt done. Much smaller and lighter than the lead carbon option and it may even be cheaper because of their markup on the battery

I wonder if they would fit a battery they didn't supply? or up their installation cost to make up the margin they lost on selling it?

 

[barryd]

If you really want an opinion, get a 100Ah lifepo4 delivered to either you or VanBitz and ask them to fit that when you have solar and mppt done. Much smaller and lighter than the lead carbon option and it may even be cheaper because of their markup on the battery

I think their issue was time. They have time to fit us in for lead carbon and solar but not Lithium. I'll see what happens on Wednesday.

If I have this correct though a 100ah lead carbon is about the equivalent of a 160 ah normal lead acid because 90% of the capacity is usable. However does that mean usable at a much lower voltage or does it maintain 12v for longer? If it's the former I bet the swift control panel and other stuff will start complaining once it gets down below 12v.

My head hurts

 

[barryd]

It just gets worse today. The one 12v socket we have to rely on charging phones etc and the tv Has packed up. Fuse has blown. I found the right one on the ec400. It's number 6 and used my last ten amp fuse and it fixed it. I tested it with a little 12v charger. Plugged the Bestek inverter in and it blew again and made a sparking noise in the socket. The inverter was flashing up a fault on the leisure battery this morning so I switched to the engine battery for a bit and it was ok. I wonder if it's been damaged with the low voltage. Now I have no 10amp fuses left. I think I read somewhere that swift recommended upgrading this fuse to 15 amps or something. Can't remember. Does anyone know?

 

[wildebus]

I think their issue was time. They have time to fit us in for lead carbon and solar but not Lithium. I'll see what happens on Wednesday.

If I have this correct though a 100ah lead carbon is about the equivalent of a 160 ah normal lead acid because 90% of the capacity is usable. However does that mean usable at a much lower voltage or does it maintain 12v for longer? If it's the former I bet the swift control panel and other stuff will start complaining once it gets down below 12v.

My head hurts

same as any battery (including lithium), the deeper you take it, the more service life you take out the battery. So if you did go down to 90% DoD (= 10% SOC), you would not get the quoted cycle count.
You can take any battery down to 90% or even 100% if you want. What Lead Carbon is better at then Wet Cell batteries is how they get affected at higher discharge levels - they are much less impacted. But I would not base chosing the battery based on using 90% of the quoted capacity every time. Where it comes in useful is as an emergency reserve. Think of it as going into the red on a fuel guage .... you don't do it every time you go for a drive but if you are stuck you could do. Personally, I have a target on my Lead Carbon of not under 40% SOC (60% DOD) but don't overly worry if it goes to 30% SOC.

Now as far as the voltage is concerned, no the voltage is not maintained at 12V for notably longer and although you *CAN* take the battery down to 90% or even 100% discharge without permanent damage, in reality the voltage will be too low to do anything useful with by that time.

 

[barryd]

same as any battery (including lithium), the deeper you take it, the more service life you take out the battery. So if you did go down to 90% DoD (= 10% SOC), you would not get the quoted cycle count.
You can take any battery down to 90% or even 100% if you want. What Lead Carbon is better at then Wet Cell batteries is how they get affected at higher discharge levels - they are much less impacted. But I would not base chosing the battery based on using 90% of the quoted capacity every time. Where it comes in useful is as an emergency reserve. Think of it as going into the red on a fuel guage .... you don't do it every time you go for a drive but if you are stuck you could do. Personally, I have a target on my Lead Carbon of not under 40% SOC (60% DOD) but don't overly worry if it goes to 30% SOC.

Now as far as the voltage is concerned, no the voltage is not maintained at 12V for notably longer and although you *CAN* take the battery down to 90% or even 100% discharge without permanent damage, in reality the voltage will be too low to do anything useful with by that time.

Thanks. That's very useful. That makes me more tempted to go for 2 x 85s then. However with an extra panel it should charge quite quickly every day on the single 100ah. The guy at VanBitz reckons they charge much quicker and also their Victron panels (again according to him) charge well on dull days. That sounded a bit like sales patter to me though.

 

[Nabsim]

Thanks. That's very useful. That makes me more tempted to go for 2 x 85s then. However with an extra panel it should charge quite quickly every day on the single 100ah. The guy at VanBitz reckons they charge much quicker and also their Victron panels (again according to him) charge well on dull days. That sounded a bit like sales patter to me though.

You have just discovered how well solar works on dull days Barry. Does it matter if one brand gives 40w yield on a cloudy day and another gives 41W lol

 

[wildebus]

Thanks. That's very useful. That makes me more tempted to go for 2 x 85s then. However with an extra panel it should charge quite quickly every day on the single 100ah. The guy at VanBitz reckons they charge much quicker and also their Victron panels (again according to him) charge well on dull days. That sounded a bit like sales patter to me though.

Barry, do not base ANYTHING on how "well" you are currently charging the battery. Your current results are skewed by a crap battery

not sure what is meant by "they charge much quicker"? Is this in reference to Lead Carbons? If so, the difference compared to standard Lead Acid is that the charge rate doesn't drop as quickly as it starts to fill up, but it is still not as good as Lithium in that respect (Lithium charges at full rate until 99% full).

ref the Victron Panels, now I have found they work well. Panels tend to be much of a muchness in truth, but they seem to harvest more than their quoted power by a couple of percent and are well made. I go for those when looking at glass panels as they are also well priced, especially currently, IMO
Watch out for the prices quoted generally. someone asked me for an opinion on a quote they had for a supply and fit from a dealer (name withheld) and one of the items was over £1,000 more than I think it should have been! (or at least over £1,000 more than I would have charged him. Maybe I am the silly one?)

 

[barryd]

Barry, do not base ANYTHING on how "well" you are currently charging the battery. Your current results are skewed by a crap battery

not sure what is meant by "they charge much quicker"? Is this in reference to Lead Carbons? If so, the difference compared to standard Lead Acid is that the charge rate doesn't drop as quickly as it starts to fill up, but it is still not as good as Lithium in that respect (Lithium charges at full rate until 99% full).

ref the Victron Panels, now I have found they work well. Panels tend to be much of a muchness in truth, but they seem to harvest more than their quoted power by a couple of percent and are well made. I go for those when looking at glass panels as they are also well priced, especially currently, IMO
Watch out for the prices quoted generally. someone asked me for an opinion on a quote they had for a supply and fit from a dealer (name withheld) and one of the items was over £1,000 more than I think it should have been! (or at least over £1,000 more than I would have charged him. Maybe I am the silly one?)

Thanks again. I should have some quotes after our visit on Wednesday to VanBitz so they can assess what's needed for the following weeks install. I need to make up my mind what to go for once I see the quote. My head's telling me to go for 2x85 carbons and whatever additional panel(s) they can add. It's going to be the sort of money I was expecting to pay for lithium though!

Another train of thought was just to wing it with the current panel, a new Victron controller, battery master and a single 100ah Carbon. If it's not enough I could get them to add another panel back end of September as we will still be down here. Dunno.

 

[rugbyken]

saw these on e bay & thought of you 2 x brand new fogstar drift 460 A £875 each

 

[Robmac]

saw these on e bay & thought of you 2 x brand new fogstar drift 460 A £875 each View attachment 133393

I'll go halves with you Barry.

 

[Robmac]

I'll go halves with you Barry.

...well I would but me and Merl are working on a cunning plan.

I can't reveal it as the consequences are so outreaching that they could blow the very fabric of this forum apart!

 

[merl]

I'm sort of with Kev (Pudsey) on this one to be honest Barry because if you go for the 2X lead carbons you're effectively paying out several hundred quid for a pair of batteries that will need replacing again further down the line.
If you weren't time constrained by your current situation would you install lead carbon? No I dont think so, you'd go for lithium right because once you've got them installed you aint ever buying another leisure battery again? So to my way of thinking, instead of forking out for lead carbons that you dont really want you simply buy a cheap £90 car battery from Halfords (they'll fit it for you too) and run that for the next few weeks. When you get home you can take your time, sort out exactly what you'd like and where you're going to get that fitted.
It's going to cost you an extra £90, peanuts compared to 2 lead carbons from vanbitz

 

[merl]

...well I would but me and Merl are working on a cunning plan.

I can't reveal it as the consequences are so outreaching that they could blow the very fabric of this forum apart!

Twat

 

[wildebus]

I'm sort of with Kev (Pudsey) on this one to be honest Barry because if you go for the 2X lead carbons you're effectively paying out several hundred quid for a pair of batteries that will need replacing again further down the line.
If you weren't time constrained by your current situation would you install lead carbon? No I dont think so, you'd go for lithium right because once you've got them installed you aint ever buying another leisure battery again? So to my way of thinking, instead of forking out for lead carbons that you dont really want you simply buy a cheap £90 car battery from Halfords (they'll fit it for you too) and run that for the next few weeks. When you get home you can take your time, sort out exactly what you'd like and where you're going to get that fitted.
It's going to cost you an extra £90, peanuts compared to 2 lead carbons from vanbitz

I would suggest getting a decent van battery and then relocate that in place of the existing starter battery when the new Leisure Battery setup is in place.
The existing vehicle battery is likely knackered and will start to fail in a few months anyway.

 

[Canalsman]

I agree with @merl and @wildebus - replace the knackered battery with another lead acid as an interim measure.

It will tide you over till you can get booked at an installer for a full lithium installation.

Don't rush. Take your time and do it right.

And don't forget if you change the 'van in the future you can move the lithium battery to your new purchase.