Gas explosion??

[Robmac]

Are you sure it was this site Rob, not some other site .

You don't work for the BBC by any chance Rob

Not sure now you mention it Bill.

But I am sure that you posted in the thread.

 

[Fisherman]

Not sure now you mention it Bill.

But I am sure that you posted in the thread.

I don't go to sites like that Rob

 

[Robmac]

I I don't go to sites like that Rob

Only coz you're banned!

 

[Greengrass]

This garage is not shown as selling LPG on any of my Apps.
There must be another cause for the fire I think.

Try myLPG.eu or Autugas. App on there

 

[Fragle]

I won’t add to the miss information on Facebook but you only have to look at the miss information on here.
A little bit of information in the wrong hands is what causes the problem.
Most people don’t have a clue about the characteristics of lpg. Or what happens when you over fill a bottle and a quick google to get information only adds to the miss information Leave it to the experts.

 

[Rumour]

This garage is not shown as selling LPG on any of my Apps.
There must be another cause for the fire I think.

Just because it doesn't show on an app, doesn't mean it is not selling LPG. This is our local Morrisons and it does (did?) sell LPG. It is (was) where we fill up. If you look at the picture, you can see the price for LPG at 0.799p. The fire was supposedly caused by filling an ordinary Calor type cylinder. I do find that strange, because until they "know" you, they won't switch the pump on until they have been and checked.

It was the driver of the van that was injured, he was filling whatever cylinder it was and something went wrong. I was parked in the carpark at the time and in town, I came back about five minutes after the bang. The fire brigade were just arriving. and we were stuck there until the job was over, although they were letting nothing in or out, Morrisons do have a lovely café.

The fear now is that this will accelerate their plans to ditch LPG, not just here, but at all Morrisons sites. Filling gas refillables is no more dangerous than filling with petrol, but this sort of event will shine a bad light on anyone who fills at a fuel station.

 

[mikejay]

The fear now is that this will accelerate their plans to ditch LPG, not just here, but at all Morrisons sites. Filling gas refillables is no more dangerous than filling with petrol, but this sort of event will shine a bad light on anyone who fills at a fuel station.

This is my worry we use morrisons for our refills as all our local garages have removed the pumps

Mike

 

[Fragle]

When propane stored in liquid form is suddenly released to normal air pressure it expands explosively to 270 times its original volume. It will be hurled in every direction and not have a chance to settle at ground level. Any loose metal parts such as the dangerous filling device are likely to be thrown out too, or at the very least dropped, the smallest spark will set it off. This is known as a BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion) and you really do not want to be in the same post code if that happens.

A Bleve is not just an escape of gas. You are correct in saying that you don’t want to be around andI know it’s not great to be around.
But it’s a result of certain circumstances. A release of gas is not a bleve

 

[Okta]

A Bleve is not just an escape of gas. You are correct in saying that you don’t want to be around andI know it’s not great to be around.
But it’s a result of certain circumstances. A release of gas is not a bleve

I know, I thought I had covered that.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate: I buy a DIY device (never seen one) and connect it to my Calor bottle (I assume that's what they're for). I go to the garage, connect the LPG pump and press the trigger. The bottle overfills and LPG pours out so I switch off the pump (perhaps I don't switch off my bottle before disconnecting). What happens?

Unless there is a naked flame or a very hot exhaust, I would think the LPG would quickly turn to gas but I accept that it would then fall to the floor and spread along the ground. I don't see how there could be an explosion/fire JUST as a result of a DIY set-up.

Very very happy to be corrected - Gordon

Gas cylinders are only filled to 80% to account for expansion and remove the possibility of the liquid gas being vented into the system when the valve opens, so you have to have a way of filling to that level. Easiest way is by weight. If a cylinder overfills its way too likely that it will vent liquid gas past the seals until it vapourises and becomes a gas.
Calor (others are available) cylinders are not meant to be DIY filled, the cylinder is always the property of Calor (or whoever) we only buy and own the gas within. Any interference could lead to legal issues (if they were to ever find out - unlikely). LPG expands to well over 300 times its liquid volume so covers quite a large area.
Unfortunately there ard those out there who just don't understand the implications and don't handle it correctly.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

And the ones who do argue that it is safe to do.

 

[Fisherman]

A Bleve is not just an escape of gas. You are correct in saying that you don’t want to be around andI know it’s not great to be around.
But it’s a result of certain circumstances. A release of gas is not a bleve

Correct.
The ignition and expansion happens simultaneously, not after the gas has escaped and expanded. A BLEVE happens when the cylinder or container ruptures causing a rapid and mass escape of gas and simultaneous ignition.
Its more common in gas tankers and occurs when the intact container is heated from outside causing the gas to expand within the container and eventually rupturing it. I attended such an incident in 1977 at BOC in Polmadie in Glasgow.
Cylinders very rarely rupture even when engulfed in a fire, I have seen them red hot and remaining intact.
But they have been empty.
But twice in my time I witnessed them going off, on one occasion destroying a commercial garage.

 

[Fragle]

Correct.
The ignition and expansion happens simultaneously, not after the gas has escaped and expanded. A BLEVE happens when the cylinder or container ruptures causing a rapid and mass escape of gas and simultaneous ignition.
Its more common in gas tankers and occurs when the intact container is heated from outside causing the gas to expand within the container and eventually rupturing it. I attended such an incident in 1977 at BOC in Polmadie in Glasgow.
Cylinders very rarely rupture even when engulfed in a fire, I have seen them red hot and remaining intact.
But they have been empty.
But twice in my time I witnessed them going off, on one occasion destroying a commercial garage.

A man who knows his stuff

I do mini bulk deliveries. During winter. Dangerous work but fulfilling.
I meet so many people that apparently know a lot about gas. Not.

 

[trevskoda]

At the moment im making my own, i do hope it does not burst into flames as it leaves my concelled chamber.

 

[rugbyken]

the problem with refilling a standard bottle is that there is no non return valve ie before disconnecting the pump you must turn off the bottle , i had various gas qualifications under corgi during my working life but before i got them i worked for the major gas company at their leicester depot my training refilling bottles consisted of a quick demo & now you do it ! , all gas qualifications are based on ‘ competent person’ the wording on regulations , the adapters are readily available and at an exchange rate of about £35 can pay for themselves very quickly , the adapters all come with disclaimers and detailed instructions but you can’t fix stupid , you still see people filling cars smoking ! when i challenged one he said it’s alright it’s deisel !!!

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Are they actually legal to buy or use?

 

[Thistle]

The van looks like a self build, it will be interesting to see if the details of the subsequent fire investigation establishes a route cause.

I hope the vehicles owner has valid insurance, we all know how dishonest some in the community are when it comes to insurance declarations and keeping their vehicles road legal and under the plated weight.

All of which can give insurers loss adjusters wriggle room to void policies post accident which is obviously what they are employed to do, either way this is going to be a very expensive claim!

 

[trevskoda]

Are they actually legal to buy or use?

Legal to buy but the gas bottles belong to the maker and they say no to refilling, so doing so you may be doing what you are not allowed to do.

 

[artb]

I use composit bottles with 80 % fillstop. works fine.

gasflasche füllstop | eBay

 

[Fisherman]

It really astounds me how stupid some people are.
LPG is potentially one of the most dangerous substances most of us will ever handle. If handled correctly it poses little risk, but looking at what’s being sold online really needs sorting out. It’s time to make the sale of such stuff illegal, and the use of this “equipment” should carry heavy fines, and driving bans.

The problem here is LPG will harm others who have done nothing wrong, this incident left a member of Morrisons staff with burns. IF anything was done here which does not comply with gas regs, this person should be made to pay damages to Morrisons, and the injured person. IF they have breached gas regs they have destroyed their van, injured a member of staff, damaged the forecourt, and forced the closure of the forecourt for a period of time. This will lead to loss of business, and an inconvenience for all those who wished to use this garage. And most importantly, this could have been a whole lot worse.

Gas in its many forms (not just LPG) is dangerous stuff, I have seen homes destroyed by it, and people being killed and injured, don’t mess with this stuff, because if things go wrong, the consequences can and have been devastating.