Benefit cuts proposed.

[afl777]

Cuts to the sick are beyond belief with the instructions French firm ATOS has received from the gov. A man in a coma being found fit for work, a 20 something with cerebral palsy, fed through a tube, blind, deaf, dumb, nappy wearer being found fit for work. Cancer sufferers undergoing chemo unable to stop being sick being sent to clean floors in the Workfare program. A mental health sufferer being found fit for work, going home and hanging himself. Present figures are 32 disabled a week committing suicide as they are left with no benefits coming in, found fit for work by ATOS. The BMA has voted the the assessment is seriously flawed and should be stopped. 90% of the ones found fit for work appeal, a panel of doctors assess their case and the ATOS ruling is overturned, only for ATOS to call the person back in a few weeks later for another assessment. Each appeal is now taking 6 months to go through. By April next year, anyone appealing against the ATOS decision will get no benefits while the appeal is heard. Im sure many of you will have or know of a sick person.....what will they live on, pay bills with, buy food with?

Just in case even more take the suicide route the gov is stopping Legal Aid. So in effect, if a family want to sue the gov or ATOS for the loss of a family member they wont be able to.

25yr old housing benefit. ...making them go back home to live. Fine unless they are an abuse victim, or no parents, or a dozen other hood reasons.

Tax credit, again another minefield. Payable now on 24hrs work a week instead of 16. No-one i know in all the support groups etc has yet been able to persuade their employer to give them more hours. They are distraught.

Lets not forget the NHS of course, as it will soon be something that we explain to grandchildren that used to exist. Quite a few NHS in the south have already been sold off to Virgin. This is the same Virgin that the gov don't mind them not paying tax.

And then we have Lansley. Looking so very sincere while he sets up a company with himself at the head of it owning a big chunk of it which is busy buying up spare NHS land, which will then be sold off at inflated rates for housing etc. It is known that land is being bought, it has been hidden that Lansley is profiting from it.

Don't whatever you do just see what is on the news and think that is it. The BBC is very selective on its reports, and is the brunt of many an ongoing campaign to get them to be truthful.

Loads more but you're all maybe getting fed up now and losing the will.....plus my one finger typing is taking its toll lol.

Ange

 

[Channa]

Cuts to the sick are beyond belief with the instructions French firm ATOS has received from the gov. A man in a coma being found fit for work, a 20 something with cerebral palsy, fed through a tube, blind, deaf, dumb, nappy wearer being found fit for work. Cancer sufferers undergoing chemo unable to stop being sick being sent to clean floors in the Workfare program. A mental health sufferer being found fit for work, going home and hanging himself. Present figures are 32 disabled a week committing suicide as they are left with no benefits coming in, found fit for work by ATOS. The BMA has voted the the assessment is seriously flawed and should be stopped. 90% of the ones found fit for work appeal, a panel of doctors assess their case and the ATOS ruling is overturned, only for ATOS to call the person back in a few weeks later for another assessment. Each appeal is now taking 6 months to go through. By April next year, anyone appealing against the ATOS decision will get no benefits while the appeal is heard. Im sure many of you will have or know of a sick person.....what will they live on, pay bills with, buy food with?

Just in case even more take the suicide route the gov is stopping Legal Aid. So in effect, if a family want to sue the gov or ATOS for the loss of a family member they wont be able to.

25yr old housing benefit. ...making them go back home to live. Fine unless they are an abuse victim, or no parents, or a dozen other hood reasons.

Tax credit, again another minefield. Payable now on 24hrs work a week instead of 16. No-one i know in all the support groups etc has yet been able to persuade their employer to give them more hours. They are distraught.

Lets not forget the NHS of course, as it will soon be something that we explain to grandchildren that used to exist. Quite a few NHS in the south have already been sold off to Virgin. This is the same Virgin that the gov don't mind them not paying tax.

And then we have Lansley. Looking so very sincere while he sets up a company with himself at the head of it owning a big chunk of it which is busy buying up spare NHS land, which will then be sold off at inflated rates for housing etc. It is known that land is being bought, it has been hidden that Lansley is profiting from it.

Don't whatever you do just see what is on the news and think that is it. The BBC is very selective on its reports, and is the brunt of many an ongoing campaign to get them to be truthful.

Loads more but you're all maybe getting fed up now and losing the will.....plus my one finger typing is taking its toll lol.

Ange

Butter inglish thanmime so don't worry.

I may sound frivolous, as I said there will be pain...

I don't for a moment question your comments, all believable, the mechanism we adopt to protect the vulnerable is what I am interested in.....

I am pessimistic of a successful outcome sorry to say.


Channa

 

[afl777]

And for saying we are 'all in it together'.....I would be interested to know just when it will be deemed appropriate for MPs not only to stop getting their second homes paid for by the taxpayer while so many folks are being made homeless, but also when it will be that the MPs subsidised 3course meals in the Commons restaurant will be stopped...seeing as food banks are in operation in poorer parts of some cities and its been made illegal to feed the homeless in Westminster..

Ange

 

[Northerner]

I do have a gardener and we grew up together and have remained friends ever since. We went to different schools and had totally different career paths. He retired some years ago from his job as some kind of electrician in a factory and I was looking for a new gardener and I asked him if he'd fancy doing a few hours a week in my garden, which is quite large and, as we go away a lot, it's nice to have someone to look after it. My wife loves gardening and is the brains behind the operation. He's basically the labourer and odd job man and does it well. As a consequence of him working for me he has actually built up a little business doing the gardens of many friends and neighbours. He's hard working, trustworthy and a thoroughly decent man who has worked hard all of his life and brought up two children who are, just like him, a credit to society.

But he's not very bright! And if I asked his opinion on the Euro catastrophe he'd be unable to come up with a coherent opinion. Which is one reason why I find it incredible that people think that to be a teacher or a politician you cannot do your job properly unless you've been a welder and learned 'what life is all about'. What is life all about that you have to work in a factory, or a quarry to fathom this great mystery?

Do you have to have worked in industry to be a good dentist, or a good architect or a good businessman? Some people are actually bright enough to know that poverty is horrible, that starvation is even worse and that struggling to make ends meet isn't pleasant. Why do we believe that unless people have actually experienced these things themselves that they can't understand what the consequences of them are?

It is utter tosh to think that only people who have worked in factories or at the coal face can know 'what life is all about'. All they learn is what their life is all about!

 

[Channa]

While as a country in the grip of austerity cuts, I really can't get my head around the fact, a good portion of ££'s from public purse go towards keeping the Royals in the splender they are accustomed too.

I'm not a royalist and, I certainly would not like to see, or hear any harm coming to any of the Royal family, it just beggars belief how one of the most richest families in the world, are allowed have their snouts in the public purse trough too????

Are the Royals funding being cut back?

Peripheral hanger on's IMO, should be sent packing from being funded from public purse!

Waiting to be sent to the tower :scared:

For a few years apparently lizzie has paid tax....and she doesn't have to
I am of the opinion the queen has generated a lot of. Business for Britain so she can stay.....the hangers on a different story.

I will finish with this ....my little old lady in harehills rough part of Leeds and really should be cared for better than she is takes comfort from the queen.

You see. If she indeed remembers Christmas day, she rustles up her lunch believing a tin of corned beef is a tinned turkey.

She puts on an extra couple of carrdies because the queen is talking to her at 3.00 pm...the fact she can't remeber the last time the fire was lit is immaterial. , indeed the fact Alzheimer's has rendered her unable to even work the fire out is immaterial.....Elizabeth was a land girl you know.

Sadly...and I am telling the truth this is a true situation....and to be Frank welling up typing...the royals are not the problem.

How we allow vulnerable old people to fend for themselves is an indictment of what we have become as a society...

Wvw said something so true ........there by the grace of god go I

Channa

 

[Bushtrekker]

Interesting

Cuts to the sick are beyond belief with the instructions French firm ATOS has received from the gov. A man in a coma being found fit for work.....

which member of the House of Lords was that?

Joking apart, why are the Government using a French firm? I had to fill in one of their forms recently for my wife, who has Retinitis Pigmentosa and she is on Disability Allowance and Incapacity Benefit, after working as a nurse all her life until she was forced to retire four years ago. She is scared stiff that she will lose out and we won't have enough to live on, despite my pointing out that there are people a lot worse off than she is. The only good thing in all of this is that the coalition seems to have a faulty gearbox which jumps into reverse every time someone puts pressure on them.

 

[Northerner]

And for saying we are 'all in it together'.....I would be interested to know just when it will be deemed appropriate for MPs not only to stop getting their second homes paid for by the taxpayer while so many folks are being made homeless, but also when it will be that the MPs subsidised 3course meals in the Commons restaurant will be stopped...seeing as food banks are in operation in poorer parts of some cities and its been made illegal to feed the homeless in Westminster..

Ange

MPs have to work away from home and need accommodation when in their constituency. What is your solution? Let them stay in hotels, which would cost even more than a second-home allowance? Other workers whose jobs take them away from home get expenses and rightly so. If your employer asked you to spend three days a week at a branch 200 miles away would you think it fair that you pay all your travel costs and your hotel bills? I can assure you, that you'd have no money left from your salary. So come on, what would you do so that an MP can attend the House of Commons in London and also spend many weeks in his constituency which may be hundreds of miles away.

As for the pathetic argument about subsidised meals, what's so wrong about that? Lots of huge companies have canteens that offer meals for their workers at low prices. MPs have to eat during their working day so what do you think they should do, walk to the nearest London restaurant and pay thirty quid for a meal?

And quite frankly, your comments about people being made homeless are appalling and have no bearing on the subject. Who's being made homeless? Who is being evicted from their homes for no reason? And what has that got to do with a fair deal for MPs or anyone else for that matter? You should stop reading the Socialist Worker and learn to think for yourself.

 

[John H]

I do have a gardener ........But he's not very bright!

It is utter tosh to think that only people who have worked in factories or at the coal face can know 'what life is all about'. All they learn is what their life is all about!

I don't know anybody who thinks that you have to work in factories or at the coal face to know what life is all about. But I do know somebody who seems to think that the reverse is true - and it is you. You use the example of your "not very bright" gardener to illustrate a wider point that cannot be justified (and I wonder what your gardener's view of all this might be) . The fact is that there are very bright people who are gardeners and there are very bright people who run businesses. By the same token, there are stupid gardeners and stupid people who run businesses. Nobody disputes that. What I am disputing is that you constantly think that all the brains are on the side you believe in and that nobody who has spent his life in menial occupations can have anything meaningful to say. If I am wrong in my assessment of you then please reply.

 

[Northerner]

Cuts to the sick are beyond belief with the instructions French firm ATOS has received from the gov. A man in a coma being found fit for work, a 20 something with cerebral palsy, fed through a tube, blind, deaf, dumb, nappy wearer being found fit for work. Cancer sufferers undergoing chemo unable to stop being sick being sent to clean floors in the Workfare program. A mental health sufferer being found fit for work, going home and hanging himself. Present figures are 32 disabled a week committing suicide as they are left with no benefits coming in, found fit for work by ATOS. The BMA has voted the the assessment is seriously flawed and should be stopped. 90% of the ones found fit for work appeal, a panel of doctors assess their case and the ATOS ruling is overturned, only for ATOS to call the person back in a few weeks later for another assessment. Each appeal is now taking 6 months to go through. By April next year, anyone appealing against the ATOS decision will get no benefits while the appeal is heard. Im sure many of you will have or know of a sick person.....what will they live on, pay bills with, buy food with?

Ange

I simply don't believe you. A man in a coma being found to be fit for work? A man who is blind, deaf and dumb and being fed through a tube fit for work? Where do you get this nonsense from? Please provide some proof for these ludicrous accusations or stop making them.

 

[John H]

For a few years apparently lizzie has paid tax....and she doesn't have to

I usually agree with your contributions, Channa, but I have to point out the nonsense of the situation you describe here. Why should any family (royal or otherwise) have the choice whether or not to pay tax? We should ALL be subject to the same rules, whether we are Queen or Northerner's gardener.

 

[Bushtrekker]

It's just occurred to me...

Whilst Atos is screwing up the benefit system, what jobs has the government given to Porthos, Aramis and D'artagnan?

 

[Channa]

I have worked in Scotland merely 8 weeks....let me share the one I have spoken with want independance, indeed not met a Scot yet that doesn't..

Channa

 

[afl777]

I simply don't believe you. A man in a coma being found to be fit for work? A man who is blind, deaf and dumb and being fed through a tube fit for work? Where do you get this nonsense from? Please provide some proof for these ludicrous accusations or stop making them.

I'll put the PC on tomorrow and post the links. One is from the 20yr old's parents. In fact, I'll bring quite a few over so you can see my ludicrous ramblings are, if fact, truth.

When you've read them you can apologize

Ang

 

[maingate]

If we turn the argument around. Someone who starts their working career in politics (and there are quite a few who have done nothing else), what do they know about industry, health matters, unemployment etc.?

I have not yet seen a decent argument as to the sort of person who should become a politician. Although the protagonists seem to think they have.

 

[n brown]

I'll put the PC on tomorrow and post the links. One is from the 20yr old's parents. In fact, I'll bring quite a few over so you can see my ludicrous ramblings are, if fact, truth.

When you've read them you can apologize

Ang

private eye is trying to make people aware of this awful situation so there's hope

 

[afl777]

Scottish Law Reporter: Hundreds of Scots DEAD as FOI reveals thousands die in UK as a result of Tory-Libdem benefits ‘tests’ by ATOS Healthcare


Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: My ill wife had to fight for benefits up until she died

Rightsnet discussion forum | Coma patient fit for work

THE FULL FACTS • View topic - He's blind, deaf and can't say a word. But fit for work

There's loads more, but to be quite honest i just can't be bothered a couple of days after having my sinuses drilled out to have to hold up my specs cos i can't stand them being on my nose just to look for and post links to prove that I'm not some troll or baffoon making up tales.

This is the second time I've been pulled up on a post Ive done.....I would hope there isn't a third cos I find it kinda rude..!!

 

[canalwheeler]

Those who draw attention to the truth always get abuse. Stick with it.

Regarding MP's second homes. The system of election is corrupt anyway. An MP should only be allowed to stand for an area where s/he has lived for 10 years. Simple as that. No more moving rich blokes around to constituencies which are easy wins just because they have the same funny handshake as the rest of the boys.

If that was the case, then the temporary accommodation should be provided at Westminster, not out in the sticks somewhere. They'd already have a house in their constituency.

Sometimes I think we should consider who is really running our country..... and it ain't MPs.

Tone

 

[runnach]

Scottish Law Reporter: Hundreds of Scots DEAD as FOI reveals thousands die in UK as a result of Tory-Libdem benefits ‘tests’ by ATOS Healthcare


Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: My ill wife had to fight for benefits up until she died

Rightsnet discussion forum | Coma patient fit for work

THE FULL FACTS • View topic - He's blind, deaf and can't say a word. But fit for work

There's loads more, but to be quite honest i just can't be bothered a couple of days after having my sinuses drilled out to have to hold up my specs cos i can't stand them being on my nose just to look for and post links to prove that I'm not some troll or baffoon making up tales.

This is the second time I've been pulled up on a post Ive done.....I would hope there isn't a third cos I find it kinda rude..!!

I suspect people are questioning source and truth not you....don't worry..it happens...it isn't necessarily a sleight on the poster more interrogation of the facts...or establishing of facts to make an informed decision.


I haven't questioned you but if I should you now know why
Channs

 

[afl777]

I get the info from my Twitter account where i have MPs, doctors, lawyers, campaigners etc. Many links are from well known newspapers. The parents of the cerebral palsy lad put their own story on.

Think what you will.

 

[Jojo]

congratulations to the debaters - I'll vote for you!

I did a spot of googling to see what Atos had been up to and found another link to a Citizens Advice Bureau report which has more examples of appallingly bad decisions about capacity to work.

Good to see reasoned debate in a web forum - must admit that my initial reason for reading through was to see how nasty it would get... and (as a newbie to the forum/community) I'm more than pleasantly surprised. Great to see WVW presenting acase for people in need, which I mostly agree with - having worked in mental health myself I'm well aware there are loads of people who can't help themselves. From the other angle it would be great if the few who get away with doing nothing were given work (and self respect) but, in my experience, most people on benefits aren't getting away with anything. It's a miserable existence for most and absolutely not what they'd choose. We might wish other people had different lives, think they 'should do this or that' but those other people have to deal with how their lives actually are, which can be truly horrible. There but for fortune...

For a bit of heart warming I recommend watching this on BBC iPlayer: Project Hackney, about a group of teenagers in east London (available until 3:59AM Sun, 1 Jul 2012).

G'night all!