Benefit cuts proposed.

[Channa]

I'm quoting myself to remind myself to wait and see next time.

When I read online forums I often feel it's a shame that debaters don't seem to understand that everyone's experience and views are different - completely different in many cases - that viewpoints are often not a matter of absolute rights and wrongs. It makes things less painful and destructive to stop and ask oneself, before posting:

• have I tried to understand where the other person is coming from, what they're trying to communicate, why they might think as they do?
• am I nit-picking or being antagonistic to try and win an argument rather than engage in a discussion?
• is there a constructive and exploratory way of phrasing what I want to say so we can all learn something without hurting each other?
• what can I learn from the the people willing to discuss this topic... about how other people live, about their experiences, which may be very different from mine?

Of course, if triumph is what you're after, if it makes you feel better, you can dismiss my views right now!

bollooocs some would rather have a scrap.....go.go.go
My dads bigger than your dad....egos anyway

Sorry what were you sharing?


Channa

 

[n brown]

..........and the daft looking pussycat avatar maybe a clue too

'daft looking pussycat'? christ don't set her off again,took ages to settle her down last time

 

[maingate]

Yes I find it is the quality of the participants !
You can certainly tell that they did not learn their debating skills at oxbridge ?
For some that like to push their standing in educated society I am afraid their roots show through rather too often !

Hey, you cheeky monkey.

I have just had my roots done.

They are NOT showing through !!!

 

[Jojo]

You can certainly tell that they did not learn their debating skills at oxbridge ?

That'll be where the tone of debate in the House of Commons comes from then.. most of them went there. They always sound to me like they're huffing and puffing, trying to blow the house down!

My reading of this whole thread is that people agree that those who need support should get it, those who can work usually want to and are willing, those who can work but won't, should. It's the detail of what 'unable to work' means. and how it's being assessed. that causes outrage. I hope I don't have the misfortune to have to find out the hard way.

 

[Jojo]

Actually only around 15 percent of MP`s attended Oxbridge !
Really makes you wonder what sort they now have to admit to their gentlemans clubs ?
I bet old Winston would be turning in his grave

I wasn't specific enough, sorry... I meant the ones that take up the time and airspace, the ones I hear. This from the Telegraph

Half of the Cabinet and a third of all MPs went to private school; there are 20 Old Etonians in the Commons, eight of them in the Government. Of the 119 ministers in the Coalition, two thirds were privately educated. [...]
It's not that different on the Opposition benches. A third of Labour's front bench went to Oxford or Cambridge; all the contenders for last year's leadership race went to one of the two universities.​

Pretty sure Winston would be spinning at the silliness of it all. (He wasn't Oxbridge... but Harrow and Sandhurst must have been useful.

I don't mind the clever folks doing all the hard work and late nights (I'm happy to flatter them into it and pay them for it - politics really isn't how I want to spend my own precious time) but I do mind the aggressive, unhelpful rowdiness. I'm sure they'd get further with careful listening and reasoned discussion. But maybe shouting and posturing is more fun.

 

[John H]

I'm quoting myself to remind myself to wait and see next time.

When I read online forums I often feel it's a shame that debaters don't seem to understand that everyone's experience and views are different - completely different in many cases - that viewpoints are often not a matter of absolute rights and wrongs. It makes things less painful and destructive to stop and ask oneself, before posting:

• have I tried to understand where the other person is coming from, what they're trying to communicate, why they might think as they do?
• am I nit-picking or being antagonistic to try and win an argument rather than engage in a discussion?
• is there a constructive and exploratory way of phrasing what I want to say so we can all learn something without hurting each other?
• what can I learn from the the people willing to discuss this topic... about how other people live, about their experiences, which may be very different from mine?

Of course, if triumph is what you're after, if it makes you feel better, you can dismiss my views right now!

Speaking as one of those who clearly has strong views on a lot of subjects I totally agree with you. I hope that I am able to understand, debate and communicate in a constructive way with the majority of people, whether they are of similar views to mine or not. I may fail from time to time and I apologise if I have done so. However, I have an in-built radar for bullies (probably from a career in teaching) and I have to admit that when I see bullies operating it is a case of no holds barred with me. There aren't many of them on here but they say a lot - and I am well-known for not letting things go! Consequently, I may upset the observer with what I agree is basically childish behaviour. My only excuse is that I can't stand bigots or bullies.

 

[n brown]

i've been reading about spads,hope you know what they are and what they do cos you're paying for them,quite handsomely

 

[n brown]

how absolutely bloody nice for them,its enough to make me choke on my tin spoon,no wonder they think they're golden

 

[n brown]

a london term for roast potatoes

 

[maingate]

Churchill was a very good speaker and deserves the credit for it.

Many of the best had very little formal education and one of my favourites was Manny Shinwell. He grew up in the Glasgow slums in the early 20th Century, was a bare knuckle boxer (probably to put food on the table).

If it is possible to see any of his speeches then they are worth watching. None of his counterparts on the other side of the house wanted take him on in debate. Aneurin Bevin was another passionate speaker. Back in the day, Shinwell and Bevin were idolised by Labour voters (as Churchill was by Conservatives). How times have changed. :lol-049:

 

[n brown]

no problem with it,just there's a commons commitee looking at them ,as dave promised to have less of them and theres more,about 85.there's excerpts from an interview with one of them,a young lady who was head of ethics and propriety ,in private eye.that i foumd amusing

 

[and123wills]

LOL do you actually read the posts before commenting i will try and make it more simple for you.

The disable person has already been assessed not just by their own GP's but by government paid independent doctors over and over again, the problem you have is you dont now the facts, you just conditiond to think somone is having somthing for nothing.

I could go on and on trying to educate you but i feel it would be a futile exercise.

PS I'm feeling generous tonight so here is a little fact for you only 1% of dla claims are fraudulent.

 

[scampa]

a london term for roast potatoes

Shouldn't that be "Landan" ??

 

[and123wills]

The only problem is really that there are some who are registered as disabled who really are not !
We all know at least one aia think in our lives but most of us probably know more than one !
I think maybe the term disabled is used in the wrong way these days as some are really only ill or slightly impaired not disabled as most think of the term ?????
The thing noone is picking up on is who is going to pay for all these people and all the pensions not for today but in 20 to 30 years time and beyond ?
It really annoys me to hear todays pensioners moaning as they are some of the most affluent members of society and will be some of the last to receive such generous pensions and short working lives compared to the kids of today !
The old statement of I have worked all my life and paid in makes me laugh too as most have never paid in enough to cover their own costs if you did the sums ?????

WHO do you now?????? how are you qualified to now??????????? your views are so sweeping and generalising its laughable, I now a lot of people who suffer from MS for example, they are fine one day and are severely disabled the next!!!!!!!!!!!!! for us lesser mortals perhaps we should have them tattoo MS on their forhead so us less impirial beings can identifi them from scroungers as you can.

In regards to today's pensioners can you tell me if they new that the government would not be able pay them when they started paying into their pension pot??

 

[daisymini]

LOL do you actually read the posts before commenting i will try and make it more simple for you.

The disable person has already been assessed not just by their own GP's but by government paid independent doctors over and over again, the problem you have is you dont now the facts, you just conditiond to think somone is having somthing for nothing.

I could go on and on trying to educate you but i feel it would be a futile exercise.

PS I'm feeling generous tonight so here is a little fact for you only 1% of dla claims are fraudulent.

Im an honest DlA Claimer who has had it since birth..im sure if i got myself re-assessed i would be entitled to more...but i had to fight for what i have got now, at a young age my mum would never accept charity for me of which she was entitled when i was a child and as and adult myself i didnt and dont want to claim Ive been brought up to be very independent but i do claim !..My only profession in my life that i could have got , was a professional patient...Coz everytime i went to college to study wether it was art or more acedemic subjects I always ended up in hospital..It taught me to be a quitter...I think the only thing in life i will ever complete....will be death..?