Benefit cuts proposed.

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But even there your private details are sold.
The D.V.L.A see fit to sell your details to third party cases,take a look at private carparks who send you their fines,all done via courtesy of the d.v.l.a

Its an outrage that this department can hand over your details to anyone other than the police.Shouldnt happen.But it does.
It kind of makes you wonder what information is being sold about you, and without your consent, at the passport office.
 
Education doesn't equal intelligence or understanding - it is therefore unwise to assume that someone a "good quality private education" automatically has more intelligence or understanding than a gardener. It was that implication in Northerner's post that I was objecting to.

Further, you don't have to go to Oxbridge to have good debating skills. Some of the most accomplished debaters in our history came out of the mines (and very intelligent men they were too) and some of the wettest thinkers in our history have come out of Oxbridge. No one group of people has a monopoly of political skills (as the current Oxbridge-dominated Cabinet ably demonstrates!).
 
Despite what the likes of Northener may say, there is NO substitute for EXPERIENCE in life. Those who do not know and understand the basic rudiments and practicalities of life - through a lack of experience in farming and fishing, mining, quarrying, and engineering and construction,
can either read or listen to what others who know tell them ( ie education)
or just guess or speculate about actual reality.
sean rua.

Quite right old chap. It really annoys me when I go to the doctor or dentist and find that it's some oik who's only been to medical school for five years! What do they know about life eh? I want a professional who's spent some time on a trawler or down a mine, now that's real experience for when you want to take out someone's spleen or work out the country's best way of dealing with the Euro crisis.

Experience in life, that's what all these professionals want. How can they understand the basic rudiments and practicalities of life unless they've done a stint in quarry or carried a hod up a few ladders eh? Real words of wisdom there folks. Sean Rua for parliament say I. But only if he'll do his stint down the pit first of course. That will really help him in framing complex legislation.
 
Just to correct a couple of points:
1. I did not say that a good education automatically shows a lack of intelligence but I said that such an education doesn't automatically show intelligence. Similar words but a very different meaning!
2. I have never mentioned my IQ so I think you are confusing me with someone else on that point.

What I was objecting to in Northerner's post was his assumption that a gardener automatically wouldn't have the intelligence of an "educated" person. What you say in this post is basically in agreement with that point (a high IQ certainly does not imply that you have learned enough). I know that sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't - on this I think we are agreeing!
 
Winston Churchill was a keen gardener.

He also loved to do his own bricklaying.

Easy enough to confirm.

You may wonder how someone from an overwhelmingly Labour area would know that after you stated that Labour voters never change political parties.


Either: You got that wrong - or - always know your enemy. :idea:
 
Sorry, maingate, I seem to have missed something. Who were you replying to in the above post?
 
It's not what you know its who you know....always has been


I jumped off the corporate ladder 2004....since then people commonly make the mistake because I do menial jobs including sweeping the streets I am some idiot incapable of rational thought and problem solving.

And yes I am vindictive I embarass them into re considering their bias.

I have sympathy with wvw, 1999 I too worked with disadvantaged young people ....line 9 wvw bet you haven't heard that in a while, but good indicator of the client group.

I am lucky I have done lots of things for work all which has taught me something.

I am from a humble ish background, and my parents wanted the best for me and my brother.....a lot of my peers didn't enjoy that support....so was it them at fault?.....of course not.

Advertising, religion, politicians will all suggest how you lead your life...my little gaggle I told them as I saw it , get up be ready you have a choice...a choice to better...for some naturally easier than others

Channa
 
Sorry, maingate, I seem to have missed something. Who were you replying to in the above post?

Sorry about that John.

It was a reply about the lowly gardener and intelligence.

BTW, a good gardener knows the Latin names of the plants. I think that is quite a feat as I only speak Portuguese and Arabic (or did a good few years ago). According to some on here I only speak English and Rubbish. :p
 
After uni, I spent the first few years of my career working on building sites, and found manual workers were just as likely to be as intelligent as people in the office environment or indeed students. They were very aware of the political process and could have taken part in this debate the same as the rest of us. Especially the more skilled finishing trades such as chippies, brickies, or plasterers.

George Bush famously had an IQ less than 100, as does the average BNP voter (academic studies available referenced on the internet concerning that!)

So it's pretty futile judging IQ by occupation. Not everyone has the chance to get an extended education.
 
After uni, I spent the first few years of my career working on building sites, and found manual workers were just as likely to be as intelligent as people in the office environment or indeed students. They were very aware of the political process and could have taken part in this debate the same as the rest of us. Especially the more skilled finishing trades such as chippies, brickies, or plasterers.

George Bush famously had an IQ less than 100, as does the average BNP voter (academic studies available referenced on the internet concerning that!)

So it's pretty futile judging IQ by occupation. Not everyone has the chance to get an extended education.

Not according to this website.

IQ of Famous People | Famous IQ Scores | Famous IQ's

Dezi :pc:
 
After uni, I spent the first few years of my career working on building sites, and found manual workers were just as likely to be as intelligent as people in the office environment or indeed students. They were very aware of the political process and could have taken part in this debate the same as the rest of us. Especially the more skilled finishing trades such as chippies, brickies, or plasterers.

George Bush famously had an IQ less than 100, as does the average BNP voter (academic studies available referenced on the internet concerning that!)

So it's pretty futile judging IQ by occupation. Not everyone has the chance to get an extended education.

As rt will testify, only let loose with a paintbrush, saddled with schoolboys who's best efforts I had to put right.

Interestingly Dave the weegie set them on so that they realised Some folk get dirty making a living in a pretty monotonous environment.

Whilst I understood his methodology, I wasn't in awe having to rectify work that should have been satisfactory first time around.

There was selling soul to the devil, I did things that are patently wrong ......eg painting wood without knotting solution or aluminium oxide primer.

My father 80 years old and a true timed served decorator told me to walk off the job I was being coerced into bodging.

Sadly my conscience prevented me yet my poverty permitted me....should I know that saying grammar school reject product of englands largest comprehensive?..


The only time ever and almost 50 my dad told me to pick up tools.

You see some of the so called educated and informed here, believe painting a door wall is straightforward....in fact there is a right way and wrong way.


Paper hanging even moreso....

I totally agree judging a persons intelligence.purely on how theyet put bread on the table is patronising, and actually it is those patronising that have the issues
Channa
 
I think it's pretty clear which forum members have a disabling inferiority complex that causes them to constantly give themselves a pat on the back to try bolster their confidence.

When there isn't much substance to them, sarcastic snobbery - so beloved by the English middle-class - seems to get trotted out at every opportunity, regardless of the topic under discussion.

'Tis classic "little man trying to act big" and has been seen in many of the tyrants of history throughout the ages.
The irony is that these folk usually make themselves look like absolute bellends while all the time accusing all and sundry of being total pillocks and ignorami when, in all probability, it is they who are the ignoramuses.

I no longer waste my time on politics and the Law, as the harsh reality is that we are at a critical cross-roads on the path of socio-economic development.
Basically, in effect that means that both Ireland and the UK are falling to pieces economically and socially. That is the crux of the matter; survival is the name of the game.

In the survival stakes, the pratt with a thousand paper qualifications is not the man we look to for help. Indeed, the person we need in this scenario is the humbled, much-maligned GARDENER.
For, thoughsome may protest with wails and screams, 'tis the man who can put food on the table that we want, not the twerps and twits dribbling over reams of print-outs of ridiculous upper-class menus and recipes, written not in the language of their upbringing.

The two salient points to remember here are

a) "the fly off the dung-heap flies the highest"

b) food, clothing and shelter are essential.
The basic drives of sex and hunger have to be satisfied first, and then it is time for the comforts and niceties that distinguish humans from other animals.
I will go into those distinctive characteristics on another occasion.


Suffice it to say for the time being that, in my experience all over this planet, the percentage of so-called doctors who can actually do anything constructive and helpful is no more than 5% of the grand total of pretentious, under-achieving, quacks out there.
That is one important reason why there is so much alcohol and drug abuse among the medical profession. This, of course, is accompanied by the inevitable poor mental health and high suicide rates that are so prevalent in practices across Britain and Ireland.

Good luck to all who actually get out there and do something!
I have stated on another motorhome forum, that, in my opinion, the Pareto principle has almost been turned on its head nowadays: I contend that 20% of the population of Western Europe and North America are actually trying to support the other 80%!

Obviously, this ratio is NOT sustainable, and is a major factor in the collapse of modern society and its economy.
Personally, I do not automatically despise or hate this 80% of non-producers that have to be carried by those who can and do produce, but, if ever I encounter any of them trying to put me or mine down, I will and do resist.



There is no perfection in reality, but live and let live is my watchword.


sean rua.
 
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I take it one won't have difficulty in deciphering this.

If northerner capital required I know but predictive text and all that, doesn't have a gardener, that makes it worse.

Basing opinion on an occupational group rather than an informed opinion is a greater sin.

Of course basing an opinion on a sample of one is equally not that scientific either and equally as sinful
Channa.
 
yes you was, in my previous post which you may not have read, i said let the members on here run the country and gave an example of what they could be called, just trying to lighten the thread a little, i have lost faith in all parties, this is what i meant, it was no way a means of support for labour
 
RT for President, Firefox for Chancellor and Jenny for Speaker of the House. I'll make the tea and be minister of race relations and immigration.:lol-049::lol-049::lol-049:
 
Joking apart, its is refreshing to see our intellectuals of this site having a debate without personal insults, well done you guys, really enjoying the thread, its enlightening me please don't spoil it by personal attacks.
 
That took some reading!!!!

Interesting though, seeing different people's opinions. I think I'll keep mine to myself as I've been accused of being somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun...
 
I think the reality irrespective of who is residing in downing street....is as a country the welfare system as we know it has become unsustainable.

Ageing population, putting pressure on pensions, a large part of the community the young mainly disenfranchised by previous policies........irrespective of the colour of government have left us in a mess...and the wheels of industry to dig us out of it are flat.....recessions. foreign competition etc.

Any government I think has to radically overhaul so many things to keep us in the running.

The problem with change is it ultimately effects folk and puts them often in a situation of loss.
Or at least perceived loss.

For those who haven't , visit harehills in Leeds, the manor Sheffield as examples,the desperation and sense of hope as all but vanished.

There will be some pain before we dig ourselves out of this One

Channa
 
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