Angles Morts

**** said:
Don’t have a V5 and the only country I’ve seen motorhomes displaying these stickers routinely is France, on vehicles obviously over the 3.5 ton limit, yet they are resting in places they could only have gained access to by nullifying their insurance. The growing number of roads in France prohibiting vehicles over 3.5 tons. No other country seems bothered in the slightest about angle morts stickers on Motorhomes.

As mentioned 20 EU borders crossed to date on this trip, two customs searches - no issues. Again as mentioned I only up plated for this trip because the majority of motorhomes in the 3.5 ton class prepared for a reasonably long trip (including ours) would be over weight - not insured should the unthinkable happen. Running the risk of a €135 fine for not displaying angles morts stickers on a vehicle that visually fits the criteria for a motorhome under 3,5 tons is fine with me, it’s only likely to happen in France if an overly zealous gendarme decides to check my weight plates and we’re only likely to be there on this trip for a short while.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that most motorhomes plated at 3.5 tons are over the limit once all extras are loaded up for a good spin. Hence my trips to our local friendly municipal tip with an accurate weigh bridge. It isn’t just the all up weight that matters either, overload front or rear axles and your friendly insurers are likely to fall out with you should the unimaginable happen.

This might not work for everyone, especially ardent Francophiles but it works for me 😉👍🇮🇲
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Your insurance will not be invalidated by ignoring the weight restriction on a section of road any more than it is not invalidated by exceeding the speed limit. In both instances the likely outcome is a fine and in the UK points on your licence for speeding.

The lack of interest in Angles Mort stickers in countries other than France is unsurprising. The stickers are a requirement under French law!
 
Canalsman said:
Your insurance will not be invalidated by ignoring the weight restriction on a section of road any more than it is not invalidated by exceeding the speed limit. In both instances the likely outcome is a fine and in the UK points on your licence for speeding.

The lack of interest in Angles Mort stickers in countries other than France is unsurprising. The stickers are a requirement under French law!
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So in France, a vehicle over 3.5 tons displaying angle morts stickers causing a RTC on roads prohibiting traffic over 3.5 tons will only receive the €135 fine and retain all insurance cover?
 
Really? I know that in English law overloaded vehicles involved in RTC’s nullify insurance. I’m simply guessing that French law is similar. What about vehicles over 3.5 tons displaying angles morts stickers becoming involved in RTC’s while on roads they are excluded from. Are they still insured?

I get your point about being fined for indiscretions like speeding or having angle morts markings on roads you shouldn’t be travelling on, but this only applies if no RTC has occurred and as mentioned I am prepared to run the risk of a fine for not displaying angle morts stickers but I’m not prepared to run the risk of becoming overweight through accumulation on such a long trip and have the misfortune of losing my insurance cover if someone runs into me just because we are slightly overloaded.

I’ll reiterate the point of my initial post as it does seem to have caused some confusion. 3.5 ton plated motorhomes in the most part come with optimistic payloads hence my decision to up plate. I’ll probably down plate after this trip but when travelling for extended periods the thought of losing insurance cover because of weight issues following a RTC is not something I wouldn’t gamble with.
 
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Canalsman said:
They are not stupid stickers, they are a legal requirement throughout France and not just in urban areas.
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They are stupid.
Simple to instruct simple people that drivers of vehicle can't see all around..
I was taught that nearly 70 years ago.... it's not hard is it...
The weight of a vehicle is irrelevant to vision...
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Exactly - because I’ve temporarily up plated our van from 3.5 tons to 4 tons, how can it suddenly develop ‘blind spots’?

“This obligation applies to commercial vehicles travelling in an urban environment” Thanks for this, I’ve screen shot it!

The €135 fine can be decreased or increased 🤣😂🤣

Loss of 1-6 points 🤣😂🤣 it’s pretty consistent then.
 
On a RHD the blind spot is at the rear left, not the rear right, where the sticker has to go. That's stupid.
 
Geek said:
On a RHD the blind spot is at the rear left, not the rear right, where the sticker has to go. That's stupid.
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That may be correct but a cyclist will under take you in slow moving traffic not over take you and in France the under take is on our drivers side, hence the warning is on their nearside (kerb side) which is our drivers side. If your going around a right hand turn your rear end will close up that gap to your side, and the stickers are not there for us but for a cyclist has fewer brain cells (otherwise he would have a driving licence) and cannot comprehend this.
 
**** said:
Exactly - because I’ve temporarily up plated our van from 3.5 tons to 4 tons, how can it suddenly develop ‘blind spots’?

“This obligation applies to commercial vehicles travelling in an urban environment” Thanks for this, I’ve screen shot it!

The €135 fine can be decreased or increased 🤣😂🤣

Loss of 1-6 points 🤣😂🤣 it’s pretty consistent then.
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Having up-plated your van, its authorised total weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes and is therefore subject to prohibitions of vehicles whose total authorised weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, irrespective of the actual weight at the time.
As for the question of urban areas, I doubt that many people driving in France would be able to completely avoid urban areas. I would venture to suggest that if within an area bounded by the commune name signs that automatically impose a 50km/h speed limit, you are considered to be in an urban environment.
 
Ultimately I think it's no hardship to display them and, if stopped for any other matter, gives an over zealous French copper less to pick you up on.
 
TJBi said:
Having up-plated your van, its authorised total weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes and is therefore subject to prohibitions of vehicles whose total authorised weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, irrespective of the actual weight at the time.
As for the question of urban areas, I doubt that many people driving in France would be able to completely avoid urban areas. I would venture to suggest that if within an area bounded by the commune name signs that automatically impose a 50km/h speed limit, you are considered to be in an urban environment.
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Quite true, but in smaller towns and villages you’re more likely to encounter roads which exclude vehicles over 3.5 tons. Given the profile of this van I’d sooner run the risk of a €135 fine which may be “decreased or increased” 🤣 (love to know the determining factors 🙄).

As I’ve mentioned previously, one example of this is the farm Aire at Tardinghen, it can only be accessed on roads excluding vehicles displaying the angle morts stickers. Saw plenty of them parked up there just after the rule was thought up. One was pulling a trailer.
 
GMJ said:
Ultimately I think it's no hardship to display them and, if stopped for any other matter, gives an over zealous French copper less to pick you up on.
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The hardship for me would be the reduced choice of Aires.
 
Herman said:
That may be correct but a cyclist will under take you in slow moving traffic not over take you and in France the under take is on our drivers side, hence the warning is on their nearside (kerb side) which is our drivers side. If your going around a right hand turn your rear end will close up that gap to your side, and the stickers are not there for us but for a cyclist has fewer brain cells (otherwise he would have a driving licence) and cannot comprehend this.
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That’s also true, but my experience of cyclists dangerously undertaking vehicles in slow moving traffic tells me that they aren’t interested in what a plastic stickers say, they are only interested in is getting down the line as quickly as possible.
 
**** said:
Quite true, but in smaller towns and villages you’re more likely to encounter roads which exclude vehicles over 3.5 tons. Given the profile of this van I’d sooner run the risk of a €135 fine which may be “decreased or increased” 🤣 (love to know the determining factors 🙄).

As I’ve mentioned previously, one example of this is the farm Aire at Tardinghen, it can only be accessed on roads excluding vehicles displaying the angle morts stickers. Saw plenty of them parked up there just after the rule was thought up. One was pulling a trailer.
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But that would appear to result in you infringing two legal requirements rather than one, with all the attendant consequences.
 
GMJ said:
Ultimately I think it's no hardship to display them and, if stopped for any other matter, gives an over zealous French copper less to pick you up on.
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Probably any French law enforcement officer, irrespective of degree of zeal.
 
As always, the law is a total bloody mess and,I suspect, cooked up by someone paying lip service to road safety. Is there no longer a requirement for folk to be responsible for their own safety and conduct on the road?

Interestingly I note that the the article from the fleet publication refers only to commercial vehicles. Our van is PHGV but is is not a commercial vehicle and the fixing of these stickers, it could be argued, mark it out such to French authorities. On the insurance front, to my mind, if I have been honest and open when I arranged the policy I'd expect to be treated in accordance with the terms of the policy. I'd still have to keep an eye on the 3.5t restrictions because we are plated at 4.5t, so the access to aires could be problematic.

As has been said, if you get pulled by a zealot it could be a problem ...

Cheers

H
 
My risk I guess, similar to the risk the many with stickers take when on prohibited roads. Wonder which carries the larger (or lower fine? 😂)
TJBi said:
But that would appear to result in you infringing two legal requirements rather than one, with all the attendant consequences.
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