All electric motorhomes.... Possible or not?

[colinm]

Hydrogen vehicles have electric motors, but a fuel cell powered by hydrogen. It looks like vehicles could be converted, but it wouldn't be cheap.
p.s. I should also mention, there are ICE hydrogen engines, they are not very good, there have been conversions of existing ICE, but they have not been able to run on 100% hydrogen, IIRC about 25% is max.

 

[Derekoak]

Hydrogen fuel cells are an option to power electric cars, but electrolysing water and reconverting to electric in a fuel cell is several times less efficient as a use of a kw than charging a lithium battery. Using electrolysed hydrogen to run an internal combustion engine is even less efficient.
Perhaps the ability to store hydrogen for long periods in gasometers or such and less use of resources , like lithium and cobalt, will mean that efficiency is not the main issue? If wind power becomes plentiful enough then hydrogen produced at peak wind periods might be very helpful. At the moment the grid switches off wind power sometimes as it does not have enough storage to use it. That is even less efficient.

 

[trevskoda]

That is not what I heard. Do you have reputable up to date evidence? Most mainstream renewables do not need electricity customer subsidy any longer as they are cheaper than fossil fuels. Possibly floating deep water windfarms may need a little, until they too become mainstream.
Windfarm operators say the problem now is reorganising the grid links to take all this new energy and storing for low wind times by: grid links to other geographical wind systems, battery and other energy storage and hydrogen production when the wind is strong

Yes I am only repeating what I have read, mind you its confusing who to believe these days

 

[trevskoda]

Must admit haven't followed all of this thread so apoligies if its already been dicussed, just wondering if hydrogen being a more realistic option to electric. Maybe even it might be possible to convert conventional engines to run partly or completly on hydrogen. This way the conventional engines can be phased out, also the range which is a big issue is overcome as they can have filling stations. After all they convert engines to run off LPG. Batteries & range will always be the big issue, although motorhomes usually have relativley low mileages many like us do a long trip then stay in one area. A trip down to Spain (hopefully we will still be able to do) can be done in 3 to 5 days would take a few weeks having to spend time re-charging.

20 mins will give a 80% on fast charge or so I have been told by my mate who has a VW golf, so tea break and away you go again, or do you take a day or two over tea.

 

[colinm]

This is an interesting read.
Energy Report — RethinkX

 

[Derekoak]

This is an interesting read.
Energy Report — RethinkX

They make it sound so easy! :I think california has more sun than us, "free energy will aid cryptocurrency mining" that is not something I thought was important!

 

[colinm]

The Electric Vehicle Revolution - BBC Click - YouTube

 

[Pierre leGrim]

The UK government is seemingly bringing forward to 2030 their ban of petrol or deisel engines in new vehicles.
As far as I'm aware there's been no reporting of how this new greener world will be achievable with the types of vehicles we drive and the distances we cover.
Or are only cars involved in this changeover with commercial vehicles continuing as now with, mainly, deisel engines.
Does anyone know?

For electric vehicles to be a success there need to be charging points outside every home and one at work for every employee using these vehicles for commuting. And one for every space on every car park in the land, whether rural or urban, otherwise drivers would be fighting duels for the last charging plug on the car park (see the Irish Code Duello, dated 1777, for details).
In terraced streets, there need to be as many charging points as there are available spaces, and these would need to be secure from casual vandalism and accidental damage. Plus any failure of a charging point you rely on would presumably be at your expense, or you could of course wait 6 months for it to be fixed by the Gov or council.
Huge laybys, or much bigger service stations, on long distance routes would be needed, with as many charging points as there are spaces so vehicles running out of power can stop and charge up again (although it would be worth opening a cafe or BnB at these)
The government won't be getting the massive tax income from petrol/diesel sales so the electricity used for charging vehicles will need to be really expensive to make up the tax losses. Either that, or road tax will need to be made hugely expensive.
If you charged your car straight from the mains supply at your house, would you be breaking the law in the same way as you would be if you were caught using red diesel?
If car charging from the house supply then, it would have to be via a separate, metered outlet with high-cost power otherwise you could expect your domestic bills to skyrocket in order that the Gov gets the taxation income it depends on. These separate, metered, charging circuits to avoid those costs would have to be installed at your expense of course.
You know, I don't think Boris has thought this through, or he wouldn't have said no more petrol or diesel cars in just 10 years time .

 

[fergie1061]

I think its cars at first but no one has said that as yet, as for a van, tests have been done and range will soon be 300+ with swappable battery packs for commercial vans.
Here is the big problem, you will not be allowed to take a diesel engine anywhere in built up places, plus the tax and insurance will price them out forcing electric only.

Totally agree, and have my own thought's below.

 

[fergie1061]

To me, this is just the start. I see ordinary fuel (petrol/gas and diesel) becoming costlier and more fuel tax being placed on it, until it is no longer viable for us older van drivers to keep them on the road.

Also making it almost impossible to replace an older van (something more can afford) and pricing those owners of the roads, out of the market. Making Motor-homing or wild camping or whatever it is you do at the moment, almost an elitist thing, where only those that can afford to buy new electric vehicles will be able to continue a hobby the many can afford at the moment. (It will take years before any 'older' electric vehicles appear. Even then you will still have to calculate in battery replacements, motor burn out etc etc.

I'm playing devils advocate here, but that's how I see things going. Also can you see these 'electric charging points' being readily available in the highlands and islands even in another ten years? FGS we haven't even got full broadband up there yet and some places (SOUTH of Watford Gap! - only joking but north of Manchester / Liverpool not so much) are on 5G whereas your lucky to get terrestrial internet with one bar in some places beyond Gretna ( I Kid you not!! - try it passing Kirkpatrick Fleming the whole lot vanishes!!) so whats the plan for helping those who will be unable to move over to electric? ....alas the silence and information being offered on this concerning and downright worthwhile point is as usual when any problem like this arises... deafening.

Unless anyone has a conversion solution, with every spare inch of roofspace / van? is covered in solar panels and we invent our own replacement electric engines?? ..... got anything up your sleeve campers? Phil?

 

[Chasn]

For motorhomes to go EV the government might be persuaded raise the 3.5T weight limit to 4.0T.
Hydrogen/fuel cell vehicles for the private vehicles is a dead end because the rare metals used in fuel cells are so rare that the price will never come down enough to enable scaling. Fuel cells could work with public vehicles where reduced numbers and higher investment in vehicle costs are economic.
The recent developments announced by Elon Musk during battery day indicate that we could be shortly getting quantum jumps in the performance and range in lithium batteries with reduced costs and weight. This is due to the new 4680 cell which is planned to be first used in the Giga Berlin factory which should be producing cars in about a year.

 

[Winterskp]

Hydrogen fuel cells will be the way ahead for heavy transport. No weight penalty for batteries, refuelling almost as rapid as diesel, range only limited by filling station availability. Trains, buses, ambulances, even aircraft already use the technology which is still in its infancy. Ridiculously, there are already mains-independent EV charging stations that use hydrogen fuel cells to provide the electricity.
As fuel cells become mainstream, I reckon motorhomes powered in this way will become the norm, either all-electric, or with heaters and jobs burning the stuff.

 

[trevskoda]

One thing for sure is that personal cars etc will sone be banned from cities and electric monorail will be the only transport, same as japan etc.

 

[mry716]

Or perhaps there will be cars running on metal dust in 10 years time.........

World first: Dutch brewery burns iron as a clean, recyclable fuel

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Metal fuels, as recyclable carriers of clean energy, are promising alternatives to fossil fuels in a future low-carbon economy. Fossil fuels are a con…

www.sciencedirect.com

Metal makes for a promising alternative to fossil fuels

Clean fuels come in many forms, but burning iron or aluminum seems to be stretching the definition – unless you ask a team of scientists led by McGill University, who see a low-carbon future that runs on metal. The team is studying the combustion characteristics of metal powders to determine…

newatlas.com

 

[Deleted member 53037]

The UK government is seemingly bringing forward to 2030 their ban of petrol or deisel engines in new vehicles.
As far as I'm aware there's been no reporting of how this new greener world will be achievable with the types of vehicles we drive and the distances we cover.
Or are only cars involved in this changeover with commercial vehicles continuing as now with, mainly, deisel engines.
Does anyone know?

Well the next ten years will bring forth amazing inventions when necessity needs. We will have electric campers with 500 mile distance between charges, charging will be part of your hook up and fast charges in separate bays before you leave. Many areas will have fast chargers for those wild camping in car parks and services. Existing campers will be able to get conversions from diesel to EV. Hope your all feeling rich!!

 

[trevskoda]

Well the next ten years will bring forth amazing inventions when necessity needs. We will have electric campers with 500 mile distance between charges, charging will be part of your hook up and fast charges in separate bays before you leave. Many areas will have fast chargers for those wild camping in car parks and services. Existing campers will be able to get conversions from diesel to EV. Hope your all feeling rich!!

By that time I will be ball axed and in care.

 

[Eric Eke]

Electric motorhome will be useless if stuck in a traffic jam on a motorway no heater lights and batteries dead car'nt be towed

 

[trevskoda]

Electric motorhome will be useless if stuck in a traffic jam on a motorway no heater lights and batteries dead car'nt be towed

The heater will work for ages and van will switch to parking lights which are led and use little.
AA and ruc will have trucks with standby charge sets for problems like that, same as folk who run out of fuel, at least in the van you will be able to use the loo
but think of those stuck in cars.

 

[Eric Eke]

The heater will work for ages and van will switch to parking lights which are led and use little.
AA and ruc will have trucks with standby charge sets for problems like that, same as folk who run out of fuel, at least in the van you will be able to use the loo
but think of those stuck in cars.

OK if you have a full charge or the emergency service can sit for 30mins with a 45kw generator

 

[colinm]

OK if you have a full charge or the emergency service can sit for 30mins with a 45kw generator

The heater works for hours even on part charge, breakdown services already carry chargers and they only have to work for a few minutes to get enough charge in to get you to a charging point. There are already nearly 200,000 BEV's in UK, you won't find many who regret buying them.