1970s bylaw used to ban camping in lake District.

[barryd]

Would you happen to have any affiliations at all with the police? Everybody knows the police prioritise crime. I dare bet that somewhere in Cumbria someone was broken into and the only response from the police was to receive a crime number. Well to me and no doubt whoever was broken into that night it would be higher priority than moving vans parked at the side of the road in the middle of nowhere that were bothering no one. These orders come from above so there is a agenda somewhere along the line.

I agree. that spot is a long way from the nearest police station thats for sure. Fair old wiggle down some very slow single track roads. Its a fairly well known stop over though. No doubt they carried on and did the full stretch from Honister to the end of Crummock water. Probably took them half a shift. What a waste of resources. I bet the Covidiots wont have even heard of these places. The main problems with rubbish and bad behaviour will be centred around the main popular lakes.

 

[Fazerloz]

I agree. that spot is a long way from the nearest police station thats for sure. Fair old wiggle down some very slow single track roads. Its a fairly well known stop over though. No doubt they carried on and did the full stretch from Honister to the end of Crummock water. Probably took them half a shift. What a waste of resources. I bet the Covidiots wont have even heard of these places. The main problems with rubbish and bad behaviour will be centred around the main popular lakes.

Now I think the Covidiots are a nice convenient excuse for the authorities unfortunately.

 

[colinm]

So in theory If in the lake District and one becomes tired one cannot pull over and sleep you have to keep driving until you fall asleep at the wheel and kill yourself and your passengers or you kill yourself passengers and another party passing you.Maybe this needs putting to the Cumbria Police to comment.Anyone care to contact the Police with this question and to see what their reply would be?

If you believe driving onwards would be dangerous then you can always explain that to the magistrate, I'm sure they will be understanding.

 

[Deleted member 77519]

The Lake District isn't that big, that you couldn't find an official layby or parking spot to take a short break.

 

[MadRssss]

2021 ferry booked

I’m already here. Was hoping to get back in September and everyone and everything had calmed . Doesn’t look like it

 

[mickymost]

If you believe driving onwards would be dangerous then you can always explain that to the magistrate, I'm sure they will be understanding.

These guys were told move or £500 fine,that was the choice

So as I said before If I was tired and drove on due to not feeling I could stop with the possibility of an Instant £500 fine and killed myself then I wouldnt be around to explain to a Magistrate.Neither would my wife.

Anyway we WONT BE visiting the Lake District anytime soon.

 

[mickymost]

The Lake District isn't that big, that you couldn't find an official layby or parking spot to take a short break.

How do we know these guys moved on werent on an Official layby?And if they were on an official parking spot they were still told to leave.Others posting on this thread here are saying laybys in the National Park come under the National park rules.So f off or a £500 instant fine.Wonder how many argued with the Police and didnt leave.Bet I could count em on one hand!

 

[colinm]

These guys were told move or £500 fine,that was the choice

So as I said before If I was tired and drove on due to not feeling I could stop with the possibility of an Instant £500 fine and killed myself then I wouldnt be around to explain to a Magistrate.Neither would my wife.

Anyway we WONT BE visiting the Lake District anytime soon.

The person filming knew he was breaking the law before being knocked up, there is no mention of £500 fine, but he already knew this, as with many fines AFAIK it's a 'up to', now if you break the law it's your responsibility, and you now know of this law so have nothing to complain about the same as the person who was filmed, and don't forget it applies to all national parks in england and wales. You could say the law is unfair, but remember the national parks are like they are because of laws like this, not in spite of them, and the police have been asked to apply the law, should they 'stake out' the van to see if he was a 'nice' camper so could be left to break the law?
Myself, the last time I stopped for any time in the lakes was decades ago, it was much to busy for me back then, I did try and find a campsite for one night in august about 10 years ago on the way back from Mull and it was heaving, so moved on, and I doubt I'll be going back anytime soon.

 

[mickymost]

The person filming knew he was breaking the law before being knocked up, there is no mention of £500 fine, but he already knew this, as with many fines AFAIK it's a 'up to', now if you break the law it's your responsibility, and you now know of this law so have nothing to complain about the same as the person who was filmed, and don't forget it applies to all national parks in england and wales. You could say the law is unfair, but remember the national parks are like they are because of laws like this, not in spite of them, and the police have been asked to apply the law, should they 'stake out' the van to see if he was a 'nice' camper so could be left to break the law?
Myself, the last time I stopped for any time in the lakes was decades ago, it was much to busy for me back then, I did try and find a campsite for one night in august about 10 years ago on the way back from Mull and it was heaving, so moved on, and I doubt I'll be going back anytime soon.

Oy slow down Im not complaining.Where did you get that idea.I Havent been out in my Campervan with her indoors since last October 2019 And what law are you going on about?
Her indoors thanks to covid19 is too frightened to leave home.Im just observing this thread and what has been posted and I am voicing my opinion i/e its a forum.

 

[mickymost]

Oy slow down Im not complaining.Where did you get that idea.I Havent been out in my Campervan with her indoors since last October 2019 And what law are you going on about?
Her indoors thanks to covid19 is too frightened to leave home.Im just observing this thread and what has been posted and I am voicing my opinion i/e its a forum.

And if you are going on about this so called bylaw from 1970 (1980 on the website) I doubt its enforceable on a Public Road.

Quoted from the tinternet

"The short answer is no, you’re not breaking the law if you sleep in your car. When it comes to taking a break, and even having a nap, the Highway Code is very clear on this.

Rule 91 of the Highway Code recommends taking a “minimum break of fifteen minutes after every two hours of driving”. And if you’re tired, it suggests a “short nap” for at least fifteen minutes.

But before you pull up and catch 40 winks, there are some circumstances that you need to be aware of.

“It’s not an offence to sleep in your car, but it’s the location that’s important”, says Alex Garner, a Road Traffic Specialist from Stephensons Solicitors. “For example, you can’t expect to pull up and park on double yellow lines.”

When it comes to motorway driving, don’t stop on the hard shoulder for a snooze, as this is for emergencies only. Ideally, find a motorway service area where you can park up for a short sleep and get a coffee.

And if you are planning to sleep in your car, stay safe. That means locking your doors, opening the window enough to allow some fresh air in, and setting the alarm on your phone so you don’t oversleep.

If you oversleep in a service station car park, you may face a fine. Some services have strict limits on how long you can stay.

So no I DONT NOW KNOW of this law!

 

[mickymost]

Also see 2cv comment post 6 on this thread where the Loch Lomond authority came unstuck trying to lay down a law regarding to laybys. in National Parks.They had to backtrack on that one.

 

[mickymost]

The person filming knew he was breaking the law before being knocked up, there is no mention of £500 fine, but he already knew this, as with many fines AFAIK it's a 'up to', now if you break the law it's your responsibility, and you now know of this law so have nothing to complain about the same as the person who was filmed, and don't forget it applies to all national parks in england and wales. You could say the law is unfair, but remember the national parks are like they are because of laws like this, not in spite of them, and the police have been asked to apply the law, should they 'stake out' the van to see if he was a 'nice' camper so could be left to break the law?
Myself, the last time I stopped for any time in the lakes was decades ago, it was much to busy for me back then, I did try and find a campsite for one night in august about 10 years ago on the way back from Mull and it was heaving, so moved on, and I doubt I'll be going back anytime soon.

and ColinMD
Mobilvetta on the first post of this thread HIS thread mentioned the £500 fine.The guy also mentions the fine on the video.Have you watched it?Please feel to scroll back and check.

 

[mickymost]

The person filming knew he was breaking the law before being knocked up, there is no mention of £500 fine, but he already knew this, as with many fines AFAIK it's a 'up to', now if you break the law it's your responsibility, and you now know of this law so have nothing to complain about the same as the person who was filmed, and don't forget it applies to all national parks in england and wales. You could say the law is unfair, but remember the national parks are like they are because of laws like this, not in spite of them, and the police have been asked to apply the law, should they 'stake out' the van to see if he was a 'nice' camper so could be left to break the law?
Myself, the last time I stopped for any time in the lakes was decades ago, it was much to busy for me back then, I did try and find a campsite for one night in august about 10 years ago on the way back from Mull and it was heaving, so moved on, and I doubt I'll be going back anytime soon.

Also a local Byelaw applies locally not nationally.So the Lake District byelaw cant be enforced in Dartmoor or Wales or the Peak District etc.Its possible all other national parks have Byelaws in place BUT they are local set by the local Councils then they have to gain Government approval

 

[Val54]

I've got deja vu, last time ...........
A National Park Authority does not have the powers of a local highway authority (Cumbria County Council in this case) so its bylaws (for various legal reasons) cannot apply to a publicly maintained and adopted highway. However not all laybys are maintained as public highway and car parks are certainly not. It follows that the bylaw may well legitimately apply to a layby or car park, but it will depend on the individual circumstances. It is also important to remember that the local highway authority may well have their own Traffic Regulation Orders in force regarding parking on the public highway although it wasn't relied on in this case.

 

[Fisherman]

No, they weren't. They were being jobsworths, imho.

Path of least resistance and lazy policing. I think pressure needs to be applied to local authorities and the police to start addressing the actual problematic behaviour that has caused this type of OTT response in the first place.

Or we can just sit back and let the economy suffer even more and not bother going anywhere.

Absolutely Marie, the vast majority of those approached would have been doing nothing wrong, and that’s the real crime.

 

[Deleted member 77519]

Just one important thing to remember. If you stay in a Layby at night WITH A VEHICLE 2.5 TON AND OVER, and the speed limit is over 30mph, you must display parking lights.
Our Fleet safety and Compliance Officers, who work alongside the Police, DVLA and the Traffic commissioner, won't comment on the subject of Motorhomes etc. However their interpretation of Layby use is for emergencies and short stay, not parking. Which of course means anyone who parks up and goes off walking is technically misusing them. I mentioned HGV use. The answer was they are working so have a legal responsibility to take the required breaks. Another evasive answer then.
The really important bit though is the use of parking lights where required. Iff someone ran into your vehicle at night and was killed, you would be arrested on a charge of causing death by dangerous driving and it has happened.
Now I'm not saying don't stop in laybys, just be aware you need to display lights. It's amazing how forum discussions throw up all sorts you wouldn't normally consider.

 

[Deleted member 77519]

That applies to parking on verges and any unlit road as well.

 

[Nabsim]

That applies to parking on verges and any unlit road as well.

The lights are only needed if there is no barrier between the road and the lay by. The barrier can be physical or painted as you find on a lot of A roads. Obviously a lay by with a physical barrier and hopefully trees between you and the road is preferable as they are quieter.

You sure it is 30mph @Hallmut? Parking on any roads with 40mph and above requires parking lights (a red bike lamp at back and white at front is sufficient). I had a house that fronted the road on a country land for 20 odd years, the only parking was on street. Every now and then police would come round to advise we either had to move them or display lights, hasn’t occurred for over 10 years now but the law still stands. That’s why I question the 30mph as you don’t, or didn’t, require parking lights in a 30 or below according to the officers who used to come round.

 

[mickymost]

Absolutely Marie, the vast majority of those approached would have been doing nothing wrong, and that’s the real crime.

Exactly Fisherman it hasnt been established if they were breaking any law.The heavy handed Police moving them on at midnight and beyond was completely unnecessary .They should have been given the chance to depart the following morning.

 

[Deleted member 77519]

The lights are only needed if there is no barrier between the road and the lay by. The barrier can be physical or painted as you find on a lot of A roads. Obviously a lay by with a physical barrier and hopefully trees between you and the road is preferable as they are quieter.

You sure it is 30mph @Hallmut? Parking on any roads with 40mph and above requires parking lights (a red bike lamp at back and white at front is sufficient). I had a house that fronted the road on a country land for 20 odd years, the only parking was on street. Every now and then police would come round to advise we either had to move them or display lights, hasn’t occurred for over 10 years now but the law still stands. That’s why I question the 30mph as you don’t, or didn’t, require parking lights in a 30 or below according to the officers who used to come round.

It's 30mph iff the vehicle weighs over 2.5 ton, sorry. I'll ask again about the barrier but most laybys on main roads at least have lines seperating them from the highway. It still stands with unlit roads though, because I got a rollocking a few years back for that one. I'm sure cycle lights would be okay and a good idea.