Loch Lomond and Trossachs

2cv said:
I may be mistaken, but I understand that the new bylaws of February 24th included overnight parking in such areas after the initial legislation left this open as a loophole.
It may be difficult to enforce, but with the draconian fines and a criminal record at stake it will be a brave person who tries their luck.
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they don't have any say on roads or lay-bys unless they are owned by the national park. They have signs everywhere on any car parking areas they control.
 
These photographs were taken at Firkin Point, Loch Lomond on Thursday 2nd March, day after the new bylaws and permits came into play.

This is the view from the Campervan pitches;

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These are zone A and zone B for tents only;

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Here is a phot of the services your paying for;

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The LLTNPA assured The local authority and minister they were ready to go by Match 1st, doesn't look like it to me. Imagine the poor people who bought permits to camp at Firkin Point this weekend, it's outrageous!
 
Forgot to post this photo which shows the layout, the Motorhome pitches have no view of the loch;

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I think it was on this forum that there was a debate as to whether signs not including the actual bylaw were not legal, if so they have made yet another almighty bloomer!
 
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AuldTam said:
As for the LLTNPA statement concerning wildcampers leaving litter behind and damaging the woodland, etc...these are pictures from LLTNP and CNP this is how they treat the national parks.

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Some of the pictures are of works that were completed some time ago, they did not reinstate the land. 'Leave no trace' they're having a laugh!


It also appears that they are paving the way for another flamingo land type venture..

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Send the pictures to the media
Just saw runnach post yes send to your MSP too
 
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Or do as I do, avoid the area in the high season because of the midges and halfwits and go in the winter, no fines or midges or drunken twats, simple..happy days
 
Jimhunterj4 said:
Or do as I do, avoid the area in the high season because of the midges and halfwits and go in the winter, no fines or midges or drunken twats, simple..happy days
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Here here :wave: couldn`t have put it better myself :dance:
 
I'm a bit gutted about this, I fear this is the shape of things to come. I don't believe that it's going to be particularly helpful in tackling the anti social behaviour problem because the offenders don't give a **** anyway! It's the likes of us that will abide by the law. I have a friend who lives up by Rowerdennan and I know it was pretty awful for him and his neighbours, but surely existing laws should have been used? I wonder how this is going to be 'policed' and how much that is costing?
Does anyone know if there are any organisitions challenging this? E.g. Ramblers clubs? Should we get a petition going?
 
I am not a fan of the Scottish parliament, a very expensive home for failed politicians. Usually its the SNP who are screwing things up there, but this annoying individual is Scottish Conservative. The best thing would be to save a fortune and get rid of them all, accept it as a miserably failed experiment.
 
Jazzbow said:
I'm a bit gutted about this, I fear this is the shape of things to come. I don't believe that it's going to be particularly helpful in tackling the anti social behaviour problem because the offenders don't give a **** anyway! It's the likes of us that will abide by the law. I have a friend who lives up by Rowerdennan and I know it was pretty awful for him and his neighbours, but surely existing laws should have been used? I wonder how this is going to be 'policed' and how much that is costing?
Does anyone know if there are any organisitions challenging this? E.g. Ramblers clubs? Should we get a petition going?
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Too late now to be considering challenging the legislation. Objections were put in at the consultation stage pre legislation 3 or more years back. The provision for motorhome services came as a result. The initial proposal was £10 to dispose of waste but you had to book to do so. No provision for parking except on existing or new caravan sites. The provision of the motorhome only parking was a result of the consultation. We also pointed out that prebooking was not the way to go and suggested that a permit on the lines of those for boats on the loch with a sticker and number for authorised wild parking.

This does not affect the genuine wild camper much as not many of them want to spend a weekend along the loch shore. The existing wild camping law is still applicable and encouraged away from the shore area.

Laybys were included because of a certain group who towed caravans and left them for the season in laybys travelling back and forth in their cars at weekends. Suggestions were made on how to deal with this issue at the time.

There was little support at the time from the motorhome community at the consultation stage.
 
Other views are available

2cv said:
I am not a fan of the Scottish parliament, a very expensive home for failed politicians. Usually its the SNP who are screwing things up there, but this annoying individual is Scottish Conservative. The best thing would be to save a fortune and get rid of them all, accept it as a miserably failed experiment.
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Hi 2cv, as I got my erse skelped the last time for challenging a political viewpoint on a wild camping forum may I simply point out that other viewpoints are available. Anyway, IMHO, beautiful though it is, Loch Lomond-side is over-rated and over commercialised. Give me the Angus Glens any day!
 
I was aware of the consultation, and agreed with its aims, no matter what was proposed someone would be unhappy, but the fact remained things had to change. But can I point out this has little to do with the Scottish government, and even less with the SNP, and to use this as a SNP bad forum not only misses the point but destroys any actually sensible contribution you are trying to make and as for this new tactic of wishing the parliament closed, dream on that will never happen.

It is a sad fact of life that so many are quick to shout for their rights, but dammed quiet on their responsibilities.

Anyway I have kept away from wild camping next to the loch, and have used the campsites. Walking back from the pub can be a education. So I for one welcome the attempts to better manage the countryside so everyone can enjoy it.
 
Rita and Andrew said:
I was aware of the consultation, and agreed with its aims, no matter what was proposed someone would be unhappy, but the fact remained things had to change. But can I point out this has little to do with the Scottish government, and even less with the SNP, and to use this as a SNP bad forum not only misses the point but destroys any actually sensible contribution you are trying to make and as for this new tactic of wishing the parliament closed, dream on that will never happen.

It is a sad fact of life that so many are quick to shout for their rights, but dammed quiet on their responsibilities.

Anyway I have kept away from wild camping next to the loch, and have used the campsites. Walking back from the pub can be a education. So I for one welcome the attempts to better manage the countryside so everyone can enjoy it.
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Fine for those who prefer campsites, but camping away from sites is likely to be affected everywhere if as seems likely this spreads.
 
Just received a response from Mr. Munro having written to complain about his support for the extension of the Loch Lomond rules. He actually appears to have a far more sensible view than originally suspected.



Dear Mr ******

Thank you for your message in relation to motor homes.

I was rather confused to receive your message, as I cannot remember making any comment on motor homes in recent years.

The only thing that I can imagine that you are referring to was the decision by the Loch Lomonds and Trossachs National Parks some years ago to ban informal camping in certain sites around Loch Lomond. At that time I raised the concern that this would simply displace those informally camping around Loch Lomond to the lochs of Perthshire, including Loch Earn, Loch Tummel, and Loch Rannoch, where there already has been a serious problem with anti-social behaviour from informal campers at the loch sides. Fortunately, a combination of better policing, and poorer summer weather seem to have meant that this problem is not as serious as it was some years ago, and this is not therefore an issue that I have raised for some years.

I appreciate that in all these issues there is a balance to be struck between the rights of those who wish to enjoy the countryside, and the rights of local residents not to have their quality of life disturbed. I certainly would also agree with your statement that we need to see better enforcement of current regulations before new ones are introduced.

I hope that this is helpful.

With kind regards,
Murdo

Murdo Fraser MSP
Member for Mid Scotland & Fife (Scottish Conservatives)
Shadow Cabinet Secretary for Finance


Maybe there is still a hope that this will not spread, and the alternative action of persuing the wrong-doers may be followed.


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2cv said:
I am not a fan of the Scottish parliament, a very expensive home for failed politicians. Usually its the SNP who are screwing things up there, but this annoying individual is Scottish Conservative. The best thing would be to save a fortune and get rid of them all, accept it as a miserably failed experiment.
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Think , perhaps , you are on the wrong forum ?
 
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