Loch Lomond and Trossachs

[maingate]

Read it all now . As far as lay bys go the answer appears to be yes and no

This is what puzzles me. A National Park Authority seems to have the power over the Highways Authority and dictate which laybys cannot be used for overnight stops. They also seem to have the power to get around the 1960 Caravan Act by supplying around 30 motorhome/camper Bays for overnighting (at a small fee).

Is this the thin end of the wedge? Which group will be targeted next?

Our Civil Liberties are being eroded a bit at a time. There are already hundreds of miles of coastline in the Uk which have limitations due to being classed as places of Special Scientific Interest. That is all a con trick. It is much cheaper and easier to do it that way than going through legal means and employing expensive Lawyers to draft new bylaws which could be challenged.

Let us see how this pans out around Loch Lomond. If motorhomes are singled out for special attention from Park Rangers and tenters or weekend drunks are not, then we have a problem.

I can remember Terry (runnach) talking to Park Rangers some time ago and they were not blaming motorhomes for the mess in the Park. That might mean nothing as they will have their instructions from above on carrying out the new policy.

 

[2cv]

Yes agreed, but you aren't camping you are parking? And someone pays for that car park, in Scotland the taxpayer pays, so it is not unreasonable to take £3 for the privilege of parking is some amazing areas? And at the same time protect the environment for future generations, to be honest I disagree with the changes but cannot think of a better way to stop the abuse, can anyone?

I can only suggest a way to stop the abuse. The route taken in introducing regimented areas and affecting those who would overnight responsibly with no trace of their stop left means that my suggestion will never become reality.
What I think should have been done is to introduce bylaws to limit the time of stops, prohibit the lighting of fires or running generators and introduce heavy penalties for littering and leaving human waste. Strict enforcement of such laws would mean that those doing no harm could continue their enjoyment whilst the damagers would be removed. Instead we now have both "good" and "bad" campers (or parkers if you prefer) being banned.

 

[mitch7880]

The only problem with your suggestion is who would pay for the bailiffs to enforce this you don't see lomand trust after five o'clock and the police have enough to do without going into every lay by to check if there is a van without a permit

 

[delicagirl]

I can only suggest a way to stop the abuse. The route taken in introducing regimented areas and affecting those who would overnight responsibly with no trace of their stop left means that my suggestion will never become reality.
What I think should have been done is to introduce bylaws to limit the time of stops, prohibit the lighting of fires or running generators and introduce heavy penalties for littering and leaving human waste. Strict enforcement of such laws would mean that those doing no harm could continue their enjoyment whilst the damagers would be removed. Instead we now have both "good" and "bad" campers (or parkers if you prefer) being banned.

The threats of £5000 fines for littering in England are fairly pointless in my view - an offence is not committed until after the perpetrator has left the scene of the crime... and unless there is paperwork with a name and address no one will ever know who did it - and without an eye witness to the actual dumping it will never get to court.

 

[mitch7880]

The local businesses will be affected the forestry car park above the lade inn got 2 signs on Friday put in by 6 schoolgirls from Stirling 1 teacher mini bus 2 men from lomand trust flat bed lorry with all the Tool's how much permit money payd for that

 

[2cv]

The only problem with your suggestion is who would pay for the bailiffs to enforce this you don't see lomand trust after five o'clock and the police have enough to do without going into every lay by to check if there is a van without a permit

j

You're probably right. My suggestion was just a different way to approach things, it probably would only require the same resources as what effectively is a complete ban has.
It seems to be the standard way of dealing with the few causing problems is to ban everyone.

 

[petermotorhome]

Hi just booked for the coming week-end at loch earn only 4 motorhome spaces on the whole loch.Postion D north shore out of 6 locations on loch.

 

[Obanboy666]

BBC 1 morning news are broadcasting live from Loch Lomand discussing the issue with park rangers and wild campers.

 

[Luckheart]

Just heard the BBC news article.

Note to self: remember not to leave my burnt out plasma television on the bank of the Loch without the correct permit.

 

[Deleted member 9849]

BBC 1 morning news are broadcasting live from Loch Lomand discussing the issue with park rangers and wild campers.

It's on BBC1 at 7.55.

Here's the story from their website............................Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park camping by-laws come into force - BBC News

 

[Wooie1958]

It's on BBC1 at 7.55.

Here's the story from their website............................Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park camping by-laws come into force - BBC News

Just seen that, i`ve set it to record.

 

[Deleted member 9849]

Just watched this feature on the news and I'm not at all surprised the authorities are trying to crack down on tent camping in the area.Some of the rubbish left and also damage to trees was disgraceful.Unfortunately it will just drive the campers elsewhere in my opinion and trying to witness and prosecute these scrotes will prove to be difficult.I would like to think that more education on respecting the countryside and environment would help but sadly some people have no respect for anything.

 

[AuldTam]

It's absolutely outrageous! I've been wild camping at Trossachs lochs for 50 yrs, nothing new here there has always been a minority of antisocial camping. The park wardens and police already have the powers to prosecute or move people on but they have turned a blind eye in the past. This is just another money spinner and tourists in particular will suffer most.

I see people litter pavements everyday, do we ban people from walking on pavements?

 

[Dowel]

What is this about?
Copied from: Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park camping by-laws come into force - BBC News



Was this antisocial behaviour, an unfortunate accident or extreme enforcement by Rangers?
No explanation of the relevance or otherwise of the photo to the BBC News item.


According to table on page 26 of the Camping Development Strategy linked to earlier the total number of motorhome pitches in the camping management zone is 20
http://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org...8-Appendix-1-Camping-Development-Strategy.pdf

Not many spaces but I think most forum members do prefer to avoid large groups of vans. Has anyone seen how these "Motor-home provisions" are set out? 9 at West Loch Lomond and 11 at Trossachs North. Dispersed sensitively in the landscape or crammed together?

Seems short sighted to plan for less than the 800 pitches (mainly for tents) requirement referred to by the "Ramblers".

But text accompanying the same table says:
"By continuing to invest and bring forward camping opportunities over 2017-2019 the aspiration is to achieve the levels of camping opportunities shown below:"
Which is shown in the table as 787 total in the four locations.

I assume that the "30 pitches at Sallochy Campsite in East Loch Lomond and 9 Pitches at Loch Lubnaig in Trossachs North" will become part of the "Proposed Your Park campsite pitches 2017"

 

[mitch7880]

Where have the wardens been the last few years when all the damage was being done and how many season tickets for the fishing are they going to lose as last season was terrible are they trying to destroy the lively hoods of all the local shops there doing a good job of it

 

[AuldTam]

When you view the mess these morons leave, attempts to chop down indigenous mature trees (green wood, that's how bright they are) No wonder step have been taken to eliminate/reduce these issues.

Unfortunately, decent country loving folks have to suffer, too!!!

That's the way it's been for as far back as I can remember, there's always been a minority of zoomers. There are already laws in place, have been for many years, to deal with this type behaviour but the Rangers or Police don't enforce it. Now, all of a sudden, we are to believe Rangers will be checking permits and enforcing the new bylaws. If the Rangers have time to patrol the Trossachs and check permits why the hell didn't they do that in the past and deal with the zoomers.

They are showing a few pictures of extreme antisocial behaviour, isolated incidents which have taken place over many years.

Thousands of wild campers visit the Trossachs every year to walk the West Highland Way, they don't behave this way and they post thousands of pictures and videos on social media showing how they have enjoyed themselves.

Please don't believe everything they say, many foi requests have already been sent to the people behind this, it is alleged that they held closed meetings with local land owners and inadequate public consultations.

It was also stated on TV this morning that the new bylaws will be reviewed n 3 years, utter tosh, bylaws can be revoked at any time, they have become so arrogant they think they are the law.

 

[AuldTam]

I have visited Loch Chon on only two occasions. On each occasion we were confronted by park rangers, 2nd time they wanted us to move, we had a chat, we stayed, never been back since, as they made the rules clearer to me, but overall, they are decent guys. Just prior to us leaving on 2nd occasion (approx 010.30hrs, a couple transit vans with beer swilling east Europeans pulled in, then proceeded to set up tents. I have to say, if I were a park warden, I wouldn't fancy taking them on if things got wild and, we all know Police Jokeland are as much good as a chocolate fireguard.

I doubt any of us would expect the Park Rangers to confront beer swilling zoomers but I do expect them to report it to the police, nothing wrong with keeping a safe distance until the police arrive then give witness statements, if required. I also expect them to report littering and fly tipping, in my experience they don't.

I can't see how new bylaws and permits will solve the problem. Taking your example, I just can't see them approaching zoomers to check permits, however I can envisage them approaching people who already respect the outdoors, the law abiding people, so how does this stop antisocial behaviour?

 

[AuldTam]

When we were up there in august we overnighted at duck bay which is south of Luss and does'nt look to be included in the camping management zone. There were quite a few other vans overnighting there including a big american RV with his side slide out over the pavement.

Do you mean on the roads beside duck bay? If so, that's the roads network the LLTNPA have no authority there or most of the lay-bys

 

[AuldTam]

As for the LLTNPA statement concerning wildcampers leaving litter behind and damaging the woodland, etc...these are pictures from LLTNP and CNP this is how they treat the national parks.



















Some of the pictures are of works that were completed some time ago, they did not reinstate the land. 'Leave no trace' they're having a laugh!


It also appears that they are paving the way for another flamingo land type venture..

 

[2cv]

Do you mean on the roads beside duck bay? If so, that's the roads network the LLTNPA have no authority there or most of the lay-bys

I may be mistaken, but I understand that the new bylaws of February 24th included overnight parking in such areas after the initial legislation left this open as a loophole.
It may be difficult to enforce, but with the draconian fines and a criminal record at stake it will be a brave person who tries their luck.