Wild camping is legal

sak

Guest
I had to go to Keswick to do a job last weekend and it seems if you have a horse you can wildcamp anywhere you want along the A66 and in Kirkby Stephen but there isn't much space left so be quick.
Would a rocking horse do as i don't have a lot of space for a fully grown horse in my T5 ?
It seems one rule for us etc.
 
Been across the A66 twice in the last week or so, no holdups at all, unlike last year when they seemed to take delight trotting up and down that stretch of single carriageway just before Brough. Did you see them all camped in the field opposite the brick train?
 
I had to go to Keswick to do a job last weekend and it seems if you have a horse you can wildcamp anywhere you want along the A66 and in Kirkby Stephen but there isn't much space left so be quick.
Would a rocking horse do as i don't have a lot of space for a fully grown horse in my T5 ?
It seems one rule for us etc.
Appleby horse fair enjoys royal charter, Queen Liz probably doesnt know what a camper is but her ant hubsband have hosses.

TBH whether travel to and from the horse fair using horses falls under the charter I have no idea, on the premise I have no anti traveller motive it would be interesting out of curiosity to know

Channa
 
The whole of Barnard Castle ground to a halt on Tuesday night at 5pm. I was off up to Bowes which would have taken me 10 minutes from the garage in Barney. The whole town was gridlocked from top to bottom right down to the river. Reason? Horse Drawn Caravan. There were loads of them parked on the verges in Bowes and running about the place on horses. The A66 is not a safe place to drive a traditional horse and carriage and people have been killed in the past.

They have just moved from the fields next to the village near where we live. The council put up 3 porta loos for them (which I pay for I presume) yet they still manage to leave bags of rubbish all over the place for us to pick up rather than take them away. A few years ago it cost a fortune to put up a solid wooden fence to keep them off the actual village green.

We bang on about leaving the place tidier than we left it and not upsetting the locals and I dont want to have a go at the gypsies but it is one rule for them and one for us. I have very little sympathy for a group of people who rely on others to pay for their toilets and then leave their $hite all over for us to pick up. I think one of the reasons they now put up toilets is on several occasions in Staindrop they were seen to be emptying cassettes into the local river.

I also think they mistreat their animals. Horses are often drowned in the river at Appleby.

They dont do themselves any favours if you ask me.
 
They dont do themselves any favours if you ask me.

A bit like the Wild camping community then ( I use that term loosely ) that frequent here .? If some of the posts are a reflection of attitude.


Channa
 
A bit like the Wild camping community then ( I use that term loosely ) that frequent here .? If some of the posts are a reflection of attitude.


Channa

Well I hope not. I thought this site very much promoted the idea of looking after our wild camping spots and there are often threads about codes of contuct etc but yes your probably right. Equally we hear stories about people spending weeks in one place, blocking views, putting out all sorts of camping furniture etc. The thing is though, if I went next week in my motorhome and parked where some of these fellas have been parked the rozzers would be round to move me on straight away and I DO clean up after myself and dont expect to be provided with toilets at the locals expense.

Have a gypsy lifestyle if you want. I have no objection to them living like they do. I want to full time at some point so not much difference really but they are not self sufficient, they leave a mess and cause traffic chaos. They also park where they are clearly not supposed to or welcome. Sadly and this is a fact, the local crime rate soars just before and after the Appelby Horse fair. I am sure that most of them are fine but nobody can deny the facts as I have presented them. Like I said. They dont do themselves any favours and I consider myself pretty tollerant. You should hear what some of the Stalwart locals around here have to say about them. Mind you most of them are hipocritical miseries to be fair.
 
Your post displays a townie's arrogance in my view. Horses & pedestrians have been around for millennia longer than cars & will probably be around long after they have gone.

We get horses all the time around our lanes & villages (inc pony & even goat traps) we get ramblers, runners, cyclists, stray sheep, pigs & cattle, dog walkers & even the odd loose dogs. There are no pavements & they are a normal rural hazard.

The lanes are single track & twisty, with lots of cow parsley in the hedgerow at present obscuring the visibility, but no-one ever has any trouble and there are very few accidents, altho a lady was knocked off her bike on a steep hill by a frightened cat some 10 years back & died of head injuries despite wearing a helmet.

Pedestrians & animals actually have right of way on the roads IIRC, so go carefully, give way to those weaker than you & have a safe journey.
 
Been across the A66 twice in the last week or so, no holdups at all, unlike last year when they seemed to take delight trotting up and down that stretch of single carriageway just before Brough. Did you see them all camped in the field opposite the brick train?

The group in the field opposite the brick train at Morton Park, Darlington, were there for a religious meeting. They had nothing to do with those travelling to Appleby. You could pass the same comments about caravan rallies that spring up for a few days and then leave.

As for not being able to wild camp after or before the travellers with horse drawn vehicles descend on the area. I have wild park by the bridge a Church Brough without a problem. I have also used parking places right down to Sedbergh and beyond to Lancaster.

I drove over the A66 and down to Tebay last early this week and noticed the travellers, but they didn't cause any excessive holdup. We exchanged waves as we would with other. There were no travellers on the side of the A66 but some were along other roads and in fields.

As a full timer who wild parks, I am no different to any other traveller. However rubbish is not left by the roadside by ourselves. Remember the local authority have arranged to pick up the travellers rubbish from the roadside and provide toilets as part of the preparations for the horse fair. It is for a short period. Live and let live. Most of those travellers have houses just like the rest of you, but travel to Appleby as part of their tradition. There are very few nomadic travellers these days.

John
 
And I would be astonished if the local businesses didn't need the Fair to provide the bulk of their annual profits. Banning visitors would not go down well with the shops & pubs would it?
 
After leaving the Music Meet at Hardraw on Monday morning, I drove into Hawes and parked up in the big visitor centre car park, tucked away at the end a few bays away from a caravan and traditional wagon with what looked like one gypsy family. I sat and brewed up whilst having a look at Google Maps to decide where to go or whether to risk staying overnight in Hawes car park. I figured that a white transit van parked close to a gypsy caravan would not be disturbed by the ranger as it would be assumed to belong to the gypsies.

As I went for a walk round Hawes before deciding, I passed the gypsy van and the people sitting outside all nodded politely at me which I acknowledged, as I walked across the car park.

An hour or so later I returned to find my van surrounded by other horse drawn wagons, horses, pick ups and horse trailers. When I first saw this I felt a bit panicky but then thought, how would I react if they were cars instead of gypsy vehicles? As I walked across the car park I stopped to give a couple of horses which were being washed, a pat and chatted with some of the men around, who were all pretty busy sorting out the animals, taking them down to the river and to grass for grazing. They all stopped and made time to have a quick chat with me about where they'd come from etc, and although I was conscious of being watched, I felt no animosity from them and felt no anxiety.

It was a nice spot and I was really tempted to stay the rest of the day and overnight hoping that I'd get away with it as it would be assumed I was with the gypsies. But I did feel that I might be regarded with suspicion by the gypsies and that I could be in their way (my van was by now right in the middle of their vehicles etc). So after another brew and some internal debating, I decided to move on for the night, albeit somewhat reluctantly as I was very curious to see some of their culture first hand. As soon as I started reversting, the groups parted and a few of the men guided me backwards safely, and then sent me off with a cheery wave, same from the women sitting outside the caravan. I was really quite disappointed that I didn't have the bottle to stay and get talking to them - on reflection it was my own prejudices, which have arisen due to the local bad mouthing of gypsies that I've heard ever since I moved to within 10 miles of Appleby 10 years ago.

On the way home from the meet, I came along Swaledale and over the top of Tailbridge Hill into Cumbria and down through the village of Nateby just outside Kirkby Stephen. Sadly along this single track minor road, just outside of the small village of Nateby, I passed a flat spot on the common land which had very obiviously been recently used by a number of campers who had left the area strewn with rubbish (I can only presume it was gypsies, due to the time of year and the size of the area which had been used which was marked by tyre tracks, flattened patches, horse poo and rubbish). It wasn't just a few choc bar wrappers or cans, it was lots of carrier bags full of rubbish, loose rubbish and what would be considered household waste, ie broken items etc.

There are permanent rubbish bins in Nateby and this time of year, there are additional commercial wheelie bins put out by the council in the area. There is also a council tip in Kirkby Stephen with recycling facilities, approx 3 miles away.

2 examples of 2 very different experiences with gypsies - I'm glad I had the first experience as if I hadn't, I would have been angry about the second and could have ended up just like many of the other local people round here who don't have a good word for the gypsies, and just see the rubbish left in their village and surrounding areas. Tthe cost of clearing it up will be met either by their parish council or by the county council, out of the local people's council tax.

Add to that frustration, the sense of grievance that we have seen our village and town public toilets closed and sold off (in our village the public loos were used by the children at the junior school for games lessons, outdoor lessons etc as they were right next to the school field - the children now have to be escorted by adult volunteers back to school to go to the loo which is a 5 min walk away), because the council couldn't afford to maintain them (sometimes the cost savings being merely a few hundred pounds as many public toilets in villages are looked after by volunteers) but then for 2 weeks of the year, we see council provided portaloos in many local laybys and gypsy camp spots which are paid for out of our council tax. And so locals feel that we are losing a service in order for the council to be able to provide that same service, paid for by us, for the gypsies. And then on top of that, our council tax pays for the cleaning up of those camping spots and the fair field and also all the additional policing costs etc.

That said, by no means do the gypsies camp everywhere and anywhere. Having lived round here for 10 years, I have seen that they return to the same specific spots year after year, and not just willy nilly along any stretch of grass verge, so any mess is contained at specific locations.

I do think that much of the prejudice on both sides is down to ignorance, and I wish there was more communication between locals and gypsies, so that the gypsies have the opportunity to let local people know that, just like any group of people, there are good and bad, and that the locals don't need to fear having their dogs stolen, tools nicked, sheds broken into etc, and the locals can explain to gyspies just how big an impact these 2 weeks of the year have on them in terms of disruption, inconvenience, frustration and cost.

But to be very honest, despite the bad mouthing and prejudice, I do think that many many local businesses (especially the pubs, B&Bs, village shops, rural garages etc) do very well out of these 2 weeks, probably more lucrative than Christmas, and to have that income as a certainty every year gives their finances a real boost.

As for horses on the roads (and horse drawn carriages), just like cyclists, pedestrians and most annoyingly of all invalid scooters, the Road Traffic Acts do not apply to them so nothing can legally be done about them on the roads. And I would certainly not support any change in law to "control" them (although I would happily exclude invalid scooters from this - which are effectively a small low powered electric vehicle, and if they are going to drive on roads like cars, then they should obey the Highway Code like cars, and drivers should be tested in competency, and trained do things like signal when turning etc - grrrrr!!!).

I learned the hard way after my first year here to avoid the Appleby area and driving in this part of the world when possible during these 2 weeks, or to allow at least an extra half hour or hour to the driving time. Just one of those things, like trying to avoid the motorways on Bank Holidays, or avoiding the M25 at tea time. And despite the inconvenience, I really do love seeing the traditional wagons on the roads, they just seem so "right" - on some of the commons by a river to see the horses grazing or drinking and splashing in the river, and wagons parked, with a camp fire and kettle, just seems to be a natural part of the landscape and cultural heritage.
 
Is that a bad thing? Surely our emotions are what makes us human and differentiates us from animals. And certainly our emotions affect almost every aspect of our behaviour, for good and bad. If we did not take the emotional route, we wouldn't be wild campers, after all!

If its down purely to the inconvience factor alone, there are many many other things on our roads that I'd rather ban than horses - to start off with as previously mentioned, electric invalid scooters :mad2:

Also - tractors, flocks of sheep or herds of cows being moved from one field to another, sunday afternoon drivers, tourists, delivery vans who have a tight schedule to meet, chelsea tractors which tail gate you on single track roads, buses which assume priority to pull out suddenly in front of you indicating only for a second before doing so, learner drivers, low powered vehicles (dare I say it, like 2CVs and heavy motorhomes!), HGVs, etc etc. For me there are so many different types of vehicle on our roads which cause me some inconvience in some way that I've just had to force myself to learn how to become more tolerant. And my grenade launcher and front machine gun switches help when I have to vent my frustration in some way :lol-053:
 
Your right WVW, my mate Tony (Billy ) Peel has been to Appleby, and probably enroute to Seamer now. Yes probably lost £60 turnover, that the publicans in Appleby have recieved.

Whether the benefits outweigh the disadvantages I dont live in the area so I cant really comment.

Perception is an interesting concept, we pass places and see mess ? before it is cleaned up, then folk bleat about their council taxes etc and paying for it, I suspect over a year more money is spent accomodating and clearing after the settled community on day trips etc.

Of course some of the travelling lot dont promote their cause, but as wildcampers do we ?

Whilst we understand grey water dumped under a bush ( in some locations encoraged) The non motorhome community reasonably if you think about it logically assume we are dumping shyte and moving on.

How many folk on here "brag" they have visited a place and spent bugger all because they stopped on LIDL etc before their destination ...Is this use and abuse ? Enjoying a spot and not contributing a penny to the locality ?

It is a shame you didnt stop the night they sounded a friendly bunch, I hope next time you feel confident enough to do so..

Last year outside Ullapool, I stopped in a secluded laybye behind some Irish travellers, Another motorhome seeing mine I suspect decided to pull up behind safety in numbers and all that .....woman gets out walks up the laybye sees their vans and her face was a picture... get me out of here look.......Sadly my window was open, and I said " Dont worry love, they only eat children " .......I hope she got a puncture bigots

Channa
 
Surely we could use the same argument for banning motorhomes and campervans (unless you're "full-timing")?

And for anyone who isn't sure of the difference between a Motorhome and a campervan, I saw this definition on here recently......

"A camper van is generally a converted van. But camper van owners may like to think of their vans as motor homes (they wish! )."

I can't remember who said it now, but he certainly wasn't being "arrogant"!! :):)
 
What I find scary about horses ridden on the road is that a lot of youngsters who have probably never even seen a highway code are their charge.

More to the point unlike a motor vehicle of whatever description a horse has a mind of its own, and can bolt if spooked.

I consider myself as most of us do a competent driver and make allowances to expect the unexpected, If I come across a couple of young lasses taking their neddies for a trot, The onus is on me to prepare and ensure our mutual safety.

I can live with that, part and parcel of having the privilidge of a driving licence.

Slightly OT and Im still scarred, my dad had me chasing local horse riders as a kid , He muttered something about their shyte being good for his roses.

He never had me chase a Chelsea tractor though ?

Anyone care to explain ?

Channa
 
What I find scary about horses ridden on the road is that a lot of youngsters who have probably never even seen a highway code are their charge.

More to the point unlike a motor vehicle of whatever description a horse has a mind of its own, and can bolt if spooked.


Channa

I agree completely Channa, and it worries me to see some of the riders on public roads without the correct training or experience. That doesn't mean that all horses should be banned from roads though, and forced to be transported in horseboxes several times each day to be exercised.

And for anyone who isn't aware, I believe it's illegal to ride a horse on the pavement at the side of a road where you may think they'd be safer.
 
Surely we could use the same argument for banning motorhomes and campervans (unless you're "full-timing")?

And for anyone who isn't sure of the difference between a Motorhome and a campervan, I saw this definition on here recently......

"A camper van is generally a converted van. But camper van owners may like to think of their vans as motor homes (they wish! )."

I can't remember who said it now, but he certainly wasn't being "arrogant"!! :):)

Thank you for that definition - I don't consider my van to be a motorhome (apart from anything, it doesn't meet the legal criteria) - and have always thought of it as a camper van but I thought that the term camper van had no legal standing - that a vehicle was either a van or a motorhome, with nothing in between.
edit : that was a genuine thanks btw, I was going to ask where you got it from, but it seems it might a Wints quote - lol, serendipity or karma or coincidence ? :)

Channa, I see your point about local people bleating about council tax etc but we do have one of the highest rates of council tax here, and although tourism is vital for the local economy, we don't see the same influx of tourists here (thankfully!) that other places like the Lake District or Yorks Dales National Parks see, so the costs of tourism to the locals isn't great. And also the type of tourists here are different - they tend to be walkers doing the Coast to Coast, cyclists, photographers etc, Motorhomers and Caravanners or people in S/C cottages, rather than the mass day tripper tourists, and whilst this may be a generalisation, the walkers, motorhomers, self-caterers etc do tend to be the type of people who visit to appreciate and respect the natural environment, rather than simply to use (and abuse) local services and demand services to suit their needs eg fast food, pubs, nightlife etc. So a slightly different tourist impact in this area. edit - this is why the impact of the gypsies is so dramatic, it is just so different to what we experience here the rest of the year.

Many of the gypsies see Appleby as their annual holiday and so, just like any of us on holiday, they have a disposable holiday spending money budget to spend, and there is quite definitely a lot of additional cash floating round in the local economy during Fair week. Friends who run B&Bs locally are fully booked for at least 2 weeks, and order in additional food supplies, the local garage orders in extra diesel, milk, bread, cigarettes, in fact extra stock for all perishables (I used to work there and although it meant additional staff costs as staffing was doubled, it was a massive income boost at a time which is not normally peak season), the pubs are busier than they are at Christmas, night after night - village pubs which normally only see that kind of trade on Bank Holidays. And as often next years bookings for accomodation etc are made whilst staying, the B&Bs and pubs, get to know them as they are the same family year after year and so that helps break down some barriers. But even so, I've been surprised and shocked when friends who run a B&B described them as dirty - I've helped them out over Fair week changeover and to be honest, the rooms didn't seem any worse than for any other visitor. So I think alot of prejudice is ingrained, long standing, and probably, like with most other forms of racism, simply because people find it hard to accept anyone who is "different" or who behaves differently to what they consider to be normal.

And I do wish I'd stayed at Hawes, am kicking myself, as I could have learned so much, but to be honest, I think I would have felt just as uncomfortable as a stranger in any group of people, and unsure as to whether to be sociable or not.
 
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Me, conformist???!!! :lol-049: Never been described as that before ;)

But Wints, ever since your PM, I've got you sussed, you're actually a pretty decent person, and so I don't rise to your comments any more (although sometimes I pretend to, just for amusement :p ) - I just accept that there are some pretty decent people who just have some very strange views - that's diversity :cheers:
 
But Wints, ever since your PM, I've got you sussed, you're actually a pretty decent person, and so I don't rise to your comments any more (although sometimes I pretend to, just for amusement :p ) - I just accept that there are some pretty decent people who just have some very strange views - that's diversity :cheers:

As I said on here yesterday WVW, we all suspect that Winty is really a cuddly and lovable person in real life, with heaps of respect and empathy for his fellow men (and women), but he does disguise it very well!! :):):)
 
Have you met / crossed swords with the lovely Derek, aka Derekfaeberwick, Flip Flap and Screevin? I think the two of you would get on well, you have much in common. When I say you would get on well, I actually mean the opposite, which paradoxically is exactly what you both want and hence you'd get on well.
:have fun: ;) :lol-053: :raofl: :lol-049: :danger: :fun:
 

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