Wild camping is legal

[whitevanwoman]

[No message]

 

[whitevanwoman]

Ha ha ha, of course it would be G&T not a beer, I should have known :raofl: actually G&T is my tipple too

"young lady" :heart::heart::heart: loving it, more of the same please

I shall go and be conformist and listen to the Levellers latest album "Static on the airwaves", also available on YouTube - give it a go, you might be enlightened I will if you will...

I do the same regarding downloading from YouTube although at the moment my stupid stupid Vista laptop won't run Windows Media Player properly so I can't play music on it (this has happened before and the "cure" is to reinstall Vista, but I've decided if I'm going to reinstall OS, I'd rather pay and load W7 and get the machine serviced at same time, but just not got round to it yet...)

If your wife has trained your son to treat his partner in the same way as she treats you, then I'd very much like to know if he is single and unattached... :lol-049:

 

[whitevanwoman]

[No message]

 

[Channa]

Jean michel jarre rules listen to vivaldi four seasons with patrrick rondat.

When you can open a concert at the eiffel tower with la patrouille doing their thing (btw worth a google on youtube) the lad might just be onto something
Channa

 

[barryd]

The last thing you would call me is a Townie or a Conformist and I definitely have a Live and let Live attitude as long as your not pi$$ing other people off and being inconsiderate. There are horses galore where I live. Often on the quiet country roads near our village. No problem.

However.

I doubt very much if many of you are as familier with the A66 as I am between Scotch Corner and Penrith and the fact that horses and tiny caravans plodding along at 4mph are allowed on there is completely bonkers.

It is the most dangerous road in Britain. Fact. Would you agree to them on the M25 or M1? They would be much safer.

There have been plenty of accidents and even deaths but nothing is ever done. If people had more respect then the problem would lessen but they havent.

 

[whitevanwoman]

The last thing you would call me is a Townie or a Conformist and I definitely have a Live and let Live attitude as long as your not pi$$ing other people off and being inconsiderate. There are horses galore where I live. Often on the quiet country roads near our village. No problem.

However.

I doubt very much if many of you are as familier with the A66 as I am between Scotch Corner and Penrith and the fact that horses and tiny caravans plodding along at 4mph are allowed on there is completely bonkers.

It is the most dangerous road in Britain. Fact. Would you agree to them on the M25 or M1? They would be much safer.

There have been plenty of accidents and even deaths but nothing is ever done. If people had more respect then the problem would lessen but they havent.

I know that stretch of A66 very well indeed, having lived within 15 miles of it for the past 12 years, and having an elderly mother in Teeside I use it regularly. I agree that it is most undoubtedly one of the most dangerous roads, I don't know for certain it is THE MOST dangerous, I haven't looked it up to check. But to say that nothing is ever done is not true - within the time I've lived here there have been considerable major improvements to various sections of the road, which may not have cured all the problems but which have gone a long way to reducing them, ie dual carriageway in some areas, improvements to joining minor road junctions etc. As sparsely inhabited counties in comparison to other parts of the country, we cannot expect to have the same level of govt spending on our roads as other places - I'm not saying that's how it should be, but how it is. And so we've presumably got to wait in turn for more money to upgrade that road even more.

But in my opinion, the main causes for accidents on that road are speeding, the weather, and slow moving vehicles, whether gypsies, horses, tractors - all of which are common on that stretch at certain times of year. And the motoring public are given fair warning in the form of temporary road signs and overhead electronic signs when approaching J40 of the M6 and when leaving Penrith on the A66 eastwards, whether it is bad weather warnings, or horse and wagons. As it is largely a rural area, one imagines that motorists should not be surprised they come round a bend and almost into the back of a tractor, such is life in this part of the world. If people choose to ignore these warnings, then accidents happen.

For the past 3 winters, Kirkby Stephen Mountain Rescue Team has had to rescue people out of cars stuck in snow at Stainmore. The bad weather was forecast. There were warnings on the electronic signs. But still people chose to ignore the warnings and took a risk. For some it paid off, for others it didn't and they ended up inconveniencing Rescue Team members and their families and employers, and costing the charity significant amounts in fuel.

My point is that in many cases motorists are aware of the possible hazards on that road, either through local knowledge or through police / Highways warnings, but choose to ignore them. Where then should the blame for the accident lie - with the slow moving vehicle / horse which was the victim or with the careless motorist who ignored the warnings?

Apart from these 2 weeks, it is very rare to see a horse and rider on the A66, nor rarely cyclists, as the road really is too dangerous for them.

 

[barryd]

I know that stretch of A66 very well indeed, having lived within 15 miles of it for the past 12 years, and having an elderly mother in Teeside I use it regularly. I agree that it is most undoubtedly one of the most dangerous roads, I don't know for certain it is THE MOST dangerous, I haven't looked it up to check. But to say that nothing is ever done is not true - within the time I've lived here there have been considerable major improvements to various sections of the road, which may not have cured all the problems but which have gone a long way to reducing them, ie dual carriageway in some areas, improvements to joining minor road junctions etc. As sparsely inhabited counties in comparison to other parts of the country, we cannot expect to have the same level of govt spending on our roads as other places - I'm not saying that's how it should be, but how it is. And so we've presumably got to wait in turn for more money to upgrade that road even more.

But in my opinion, the main causes for accidents on that road are speeding, the weather, and slow moving vehicles, whether gypsies, horses, tractors - all of which are common on that stretch at certain times of year. And the motoring public are given fair warning in the form of temporary road signs and overhead electronic signs when approaching J40 of the M6 and when leaving Penrith on the A66 eastwards, whether it is bad weather warnings, or horse and wagons. As it is largely a rural area, one imagines that motorists should not be surprised they come round a bend and almost into the back of a tractor, such is life in this part of the world. If people choose to ignore these warnings, then accidents happen.

For the past 3 winters, Kirkby Stephen Mountain Rescue Team has had to rescue people out of cars stuck in snow at Stainmore. The bad weather was forecast. There were warnings on the electronic signs. But still people chose to ignore the warnings and took a risk. For some it paid off, for others it didn't and they ended up inconveniencing Rescue Team members and their families and employers, and costing the charity significant amounts in fuel.

My point is that in many cases motorists are aware of the possible hazards on that road, either through local knowledge or through police / Highways warnings, but choose to ignore them. Where then should the blame for the accident lie - with the slow moving vehicle / horse which was the victim or with the careless motorist who ignored the warnings?

Apart from these 2 weeks, it is very rare to see a horse and rider on the A66, nor rarely cyclists, as the road really is too dangerous for them.

Oh dont get me wrong I agree the main problem is down to people who are not aware how dangerous a road it is driving too quickly or they simply havent woken up after leaving the A1!

Certainly at our end (Richmond / Barnard Castle) the improvements have made it worse. A lot of it has been dualled now but many of the little entrances and pull offs have not been improved. My wifes car was written off last March (with me driving) when rear ended by a coach when we were waiting to turn right. Every week there are major inccidents and whoever is responsible or iresponsible as the case may be, adding into the equation gypsies on horses and caravans for several weeks is not IMO a great idea.

 

[scampa]

Almost (but not quite!) off topic...

One animal that definitely should have been banned from our roads before now is the hedgehog! They have no road-sense whatsoever! As I was coming home tonight one of them had a very near-death experience. Luckily I managed to distinguish it from the lumps of mud and horse-dung on the lane and safely avoid it, but it just scuttled on nonchalantly.

Obviously it hasn't learned any lessons at all from what happened to it's flat-mate last week!

 

[kimbowbill]

Almost (but not quite!) off topic...

One animal that definitely should have been banned from our roads before now is the hedgehog! They have no road-sense whatsoever! As I was coming home tonight one of them had a very near-death experience. Luckily I managed to distinguish it from the lumps of mud and horse-dung on the lane and safely avoid it, but it just scuttled on nonchalantly.

Obviously it hasn't learned any lessons at all from what happened to it's flat-mate last week!

Don't forget the little fury rabbit, darn near killed me up in Scotland, running out in middle ov road, you know about those steep drops scamps :scared::scared:

 

[landyrubbertramp]

its prob best you stay in France wintorian il soon have to join you soon as even tho the laws is clear a good number of ppl think in the uk having an alternative no pc opion is illegal next possibly thought crime,

Article 10: Freedom of Expression

(1) Everyone has the right of freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without inference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.

so as long as you not inciting problems etc having an opion is fine but it seem the media and a good number of the religious lobby groups have a la carte approach to such laws

 

[Robmac]

................It is the most dangerous road in Britain. Fact. Would you agree to them on the M25 or M1? They would be much safer.

There have been plenty of accidents and even deaths but nothing is ever done. If people had more respect then the problem would lessen but they havent.

I have never had a problem on the A66. I think it is quite a good road. There is no such thing as a dangerous road really. Just dangerous drivers!

 

[Deleted member 26362]

I have given you a like Winty, but I prefer it when your being beastly to everyone, don't go soft on us just cos WVW has been nice to you.

Daiboy

 

[sak]

I think a few people have taken my point the wrong way, i have nothing at all against travellers gypsies etc. my point was when we leave home to go off in our vehicles we are travelling therefore " travellers ". Wild camping in England is illegal so why are the people travelling to Appleby allowed to camp illegally when the members of this forum are not ? we could all scream human rights but would anybody listen.

 

[barryd]

I think this is part of the problem. Travellers do "appear" to get away with doing as they wish. I think many people resent them because they like to appear to have this nomadic lifestyle but at the expense of none travellers.

It's "said" that they don't pay tax, people talk about them ripping people off by doing dodgy tarmacing and the like. The crime rate appears to increase when they are in the area. Some of them have little regard for their animals or indeed much consideration for road safety (racing carriages on the public highway is well documented)

These are not necessarily my views although some of these point cannot be denied but fr experience year in year out they do cause problems that the rest of us just wouldn't get away with.

I'm not really fussed either way but its easy to see why some of the stuffy old duffers around our way get all worked up about them.

The difference is though that most of us wild campers do care how we are perceived and thought of. I don't think most travellers give a toss what we "country" people think about them. They neither respect or care about us unless they can make a few quid out of us.

 

[Deleted member 967]

I think a few people have taken my point the wrong way, i have nothing at all against travellers gypsies etc. my point was when we leave home to go off in our vehicles we are travelling therefore " travellers ". Wild camping in England is illegal so why are the people travelling to Appleby allowed to camp illegally when the members of this forum are not ? we could all scream human rights but would anybody listen.

Wild Camping as such is not illegal. It is permitting someone in a Caravan (Motorised, trailer or Horse drawn) to take up habitation on your land without an exemption or site licence that is illegal.

The local authority police this, and if they find it expedient to permit it, they are allowed to do so under the same act.

John

 

[yorkieowl]

" Dont worry love, they only eat children " .......I hope she got a puncture bigots

Channa

You call her a bigot for not understanding/accepting the travelling community, yet you are bigoted towards her without even knowing her reasons, just as bad imho.

 

[Channa]

" Dont worry love, they only eat children " .......I hope she got a puncture bigots

Channa

You call her a bigot for not understanding/accepting the travelling community, yet you are bigoted towards her without even knowing her reasons, just as bad imho.

Well I didnt ask her reasons for sure, but if I were a bigot, then I would have a blanket dislike,hatred of a group ethnic racial etc.

On the basis it was one motorhome and I am part of a motorhoming community, hardly a bigot.

However to make it apparent she wasnt stopping as soon as she saw the travellers would suggest perhaps a bigoted attitude?

Channa

 

[yorkieowl]

Well I didnt ask her reasons for sure, but if I were a bigot, then I would have a blanket dislike,hatred of a group ethnic racial etc.

On the basis it was one motorhome and I am part of a motorhoming community, hardly a bigot.

However to make it apparent she wasnt stopping as soon as she saw the travellers would suggest perhaps a bigoted attitude?

Channa

Yes, correct on all points, but she may still have good reason, so shouldn't be judged so harshly, two sides to every story.

 

[sean rua]

Yes, a very interesting thread, and I'd like to thank all contributors.
However, as often the case, anybody just reading through with an open mind would be hard-pressed to know what was actually the case.

We seem to have several conflicting and contradictory reports together with the usual array of viewpoints and opinions.
I suppose everybody sees things with his own eyes and makes his own interpretation of events in his own way to suit his own feelings.

The first thing I'll say is that the question of "legality" has been raised over and over, through the centuries. The fundamental law that we follow is

" the hoof before the wheel".

In other words, the horse has precedence over the cart or anything else that came later. Of course, non-conformists and haters of tradition and custom will wish to scrap rather than conserve; they will be hell-bent on reforming and introducing even more legislation to hog-tie those they consider old-fashioned or beneath them.
So, out go the pianos ( grand or otherwise) and in come the music synthesisers, because this, we are told, is "modern" and the way forward for the 21st Century. That's some attitude!

Never mind, the same attitude afflicts our culture as much as yours. After all, as Bernard Manning used to point out, Travellers were among the first to ditch the old ass and cart and replace with motorisation. " Fk the culture and tradition; give us a new motor!"
And forget the scarves and long dresses; give us the fake tans and hotpants!

Personally, I think the main problem may be largely generational than cultural. 'Tis no good my hankering for the good old days ( ended really by the Sixties legisation): the days of proper travelling the roads are gone. The right way to do it was/is at the speed of a horse and cart.
And, whereas we went round on a well-established circuit, stopping at the same old places every year, now we can find hardly any of the favoured spots left available. Those days nobody **** in the nest, for we knew we'd be back.

Basically, besides the Law taking a heavier anti-traveller stance with the increase in fenced private property, where once was common land, and, almost as bad, the huge increase in overwhelming motor traffic to every nook and cranny in formerly marginal areas, has ruined the game.

Maybe the way back is to return to the horse and the bike, but how likely is that?

All I know is that despite the welter of health, safety, do this, don't do that, laws for every little thing, it is almost impossible to walk the roads we did as kids. If that's progress, you can stick it.

OK, back to the mundane: the same old, same ol':

Garbage.

We've discussed this old chestnut a thousand times. If you're an optimist, you 'll know there is a way to deal with it. Mainstream society in major cities ( try London, for example) have managed it for years ( just about).
Events like Wembley, the Olympics; the Royal whatever it was; Thatcher's funeral; all the Festivals ( inc Glastonbury) all generate huge amounts of crap. It ain't the end of the world, imo.

Horses on the Highway

Newmarket, Lambourne, Manton, a thousand and one other places with riding stables, studfarms, brewers drays and milkmen, cavalry, you name it, you blame it, but you can't fkn ban them without considering the implications. In fact, 'twould make more sense to ban those big icecreamvans which some folk use to cart their sh ite about the land.
Think, before ye ban.
In any case, we probably won't take a blind bit of notice of your laws.

Right, this links nicely with the next bit of bollix. The old "Do likey" one.
The actual facts show that there is a higher proportion of Traveller men in prison than there are other sections of the community. How the Daily mail readers square this with their eternal message that travellers can get get away with things that they cannot, I don't know.
Perhaps, the truth is that we are more prepared to take a chance and flout certain laws. There is not enough time in the real world for debating whether camping here is legal or illegal. Even on this thread, folk, who reckon they do the right thing, are in conflict about what's legal and what isn't. Just read the bits about "wild-camping" and you'll see.

I deliberately didn't go to Appleby this year and the reason was that they've clamped down so hard on us that much of the enjoyment has gone. So much has been outlawed and the publicans have been issued with threats by the authorities that are so punitive, some are too scared to open. Barefist fighting is classed as illegal; road racing is illegal. I'd guess that despite the Royal Charter just about everything to do with the Fair is classed as illegal!

All this, despite the fact that many folk are actually staying on private land, including on that farm up the top and on that field over the river down the bottom where the trots are held.


sean rua.

 

[sean rua]

Thank you for your reply, Sir David.

Talking about folk moving from " rich to poor" I suppose 'twill not be many moons till we are once again graced with your presence back in this old country, on a rather more permanent basis than just camping at the motor-cycle racing, which seems to have been your wont over the last years.

I shall look forward to seeing how your attempts to outlaw the horse as a means of transport fare. My view is that legislation to ban the motor-bike would be far more likely to succeed.
:goodluck:.":rulez:

Over the centuries, many powerful rulers, including Hitler and franco, have tried to destroy us and our horses, but we have managed to survive against the odds.
Only a complete philistine would think that nothing from the past has any value. Nowhere can this be more clearly seen than in the case of music. By definition, most would say that the great classics of music have developed over years long gone. In fact, without going back to that mini-discussion about music above, I would suggest that most of that name-dropping spiel that you came out with was deeply-rooted in the past.

I could be wrong, of course, so beam me up, Scotty, and send a text to Major Tom instructing him to forget all about Ground Control. Far too old-fashioned a notion for young spring colts like yourself to bother your head about!

See you at Appleby fair next year, if God spares me.
:welcome::goodluck::boat::scooter:lane::drive::angel:

all the best when you return to Blighty!

sean rua.

ps

What has become of that Fip Flap character? From what WVW said, it seems the dude had more than a few alter egos. I suppose I've missed a few chapters while I was away.