Benefit cuts proposed.

[Deleted member 9237]

I think all benefits should be cut even pensions we dont need it now do we.:lol-049::lol-049::lol-049::lol-049:

 

[Firefox]

I think we have moved closer to the American model with two dominant centre right parties. Whether you support one or the other often depends on nothing more than tribal loyalty. Blair was a master of disguise and managed to dupe the unions and enough of the rest of the party to join him in privatising NHS suppliers, authoritarian policy like ID cards, and lying so he could join in other men's wars.

 

[John H]

I think we have moved closer to the American model with two dominant centre right parties. Whether you support one or the other often depends on nothing more than tribal loyalty. Blair was a master of disguise and managed to dupe the unions and enough of the rest of the party to join him in privatising NHS suppliers, authoritarian policy like ID cards, and lying so he could join in other men's wars.

The only thing I would take issue with in your post is the thing about identity cards. I know they are not popular but I can't help feeling that, along with a national DNA database, they would help to solve a lot of crimes. But before you come back at me, I know they could also be abused by an unscrupulous (ie take your pick of any of our parties) government. This is one of those issues on which I can see both sides of the coin.

 

[Northerner]

The worst thing about Britain isn't, to use another's very inelegant phraseology, that it's ****ed, which it isn't actually, the worst thing is having to listen to the moaners who continually bang on about how it's ****ed. It's so depressing to read about how they seem to think that we're living in a Third World country with people dying of starvation as in North Korea. We're actually living in a wealthy western democracy with the freedom and standard of living that most of the world would die for.

Yes, we're on a slightly downward part of the inevitable economic cycle, as has happened in the past but Britain isn't Pakistan or even Spain, Portugal or Greece and the reason that we haven't been affected by the global recession as much as these other countries is actually down to those politicians that so many of you seem, without any actual logic, to despise.

For God's sake people, start counting your blessings instead of this constant whinging and whining!

 

[veedubmatt]

I say yes take it away for under 25s the prob is once your on all the hand outs it's no point going back to work I have a wife and 1 young boy I was so shocked when I had to go on the doll we had an easy life every thing was paid for us rent / and some bills edf even cut are bill in half because I told them I don't work
but I could not sit and sponge for longer then 6 weeks that's just me also any one that says they can't find a job is chatting sh*t the job centre have sooo many jobs it un real
and single mum should not get nothing I know of at least 5 girls who wanted to move out of mums house so had a baby with one nights stand and wow you should see what the girls have got and life is good for them
I'm gonna shut up now because my blood is boiling

 

[Somelier]

There are many facets to this thread. I, as a 22 year old, struggled to raise a family, studied via a day release course and many hours at home for a vocational qualification. Living first in rented accommodation, I finally managed, with the help of my employer, to buy a house. Money was tight, we had no TV, no car. I've never smoked, but my then wife did, we didn't drink as a general rule - we couldn't afford to. Apart from help from my employer on the deposit for the house, and of course child benefit, we managed on what I earned. It was hard, but that was what was expected in those days - handouts were not available!

I have some sympathy for SOME of today's young people, despite what has been said elsewhere, there is very little work available, especially here in the midlands.

What bothers me is that the politicians make decisions about cuts without actually knowing who will be effected. There are many on benefits who don't deserve it, but it seems that it's never those who the cuts really effect. It's the old, infirm and unable to fight that seem always to suffer.

I know many examples of really deserving people who are totally ignored by Social Services, while the social workers bend over backwards for the undeserving. My wife is a healthcare professional and she despairs at the way some of her elderly, needy patients are refused help. Luckily for them, they have SWMBO on their side and Social Services get a real going over and are usually forced to give her patients what they are rightly deserving. As we have seen from some spectacular cases in the media, social workers really are pretty useless at their jobs and they have a great deal to answer for with this current situation - just ask my wife's step-mother!

It is no good blaming the current Government for everything. Nearly all those in politics now have come directly from upper class schools, are qualified in law or accountancy and have never lived in the real world. None of them know what it's like to have to count the pennies and they have no understanding of struggling to pay the electricity or gas bill.

I could go on, but then the keyboard would start to melt, so rant over.

 

[and123wills]

Yes there are a minority who abuse the system, and there are some who dont now any difference just through total ignorance and have been let down by the eduction system.

Then on the other hand you have fantastic minority who can make sweeping generalisations of scroungers and dead beats, in this group you have the total ignorant who have also been let down by the educational system.

There is a very small step between having and having not, I dont like using cliché but "There for the grace of god goes I" applies her.

 

[elainekirk]

Society has to wake up and hand children back to their parents, what the hell are we doing having the state take responsibility for their learning from toddlerhood to adulthood? There is no wonder they become dysfunctional adults self determination is essential to independence and yet we the taxpayers employ a whole swathe of others to raise children.
Some of the worlds most successful education systems have a starting age of seven.
Why are we determining their lives to the point that they become adults who are unaware of vast swathed of history having only been taught pre determined areas of it?
Why do we no longer have teenagers who can create from wood, fabric etc?
We have got it wrong , the future cannot be predicted to the point where a five year old can be trained in the skills needed to become a productive member of the workforce 13-15 yrs hence.
We have the technology to run an education system that enables children to reach their full potential , that ensures computer whizzed kids attain their goals, that ensures the fashion designers have the necessary skills, that ensure the shop workers have great customer skills , that ensure the people keeping our streets cleaners have pride in their jobs due to them knowing all the local history and the local community and are able to leaise with others to keep the area safe.
If we want our children to become responsible adults they have to be allowed to learn and to have that learning facilitated , teaching doesn't work in it's present form and I suspect many teachers would gain much more job satisfaction from having their chains removed because they know the children and are able to recognise their areas of skill not some overpaid whitehall mandarin.
Todays parents have never had to make decisions we need to let kids learn for themselves only then will we have responsible adults.
Of course reducing state interference in education will save lotsa dosh and leave many educationalists job hunting but ....

 

[Bigpeetee]

Society has to wake up and hand children back to their parents, what the hell are we doing having the state take responsibility for their learning from toddlerhood to adulthood? There is no wonder they become dysfunctional adults self determination is essential to independence and yet we the taxpayers employ a whole swathe of others to raise children.
Some of the worlds most successful education systems have a starting age of seven.
Why are we determining their lives to the point that they become adults who are unaware of vast swathed of history having only been taught pre determined areas of it?
Why do we no longer have teenagers who can create from wood, fabric etc?
We have got it wrong , the future cannot be predicted to the point where a five year old can be trained in the skills needed to become a productive member of the workforce 13-15 yrs hence.
We have the technology to run an education system that enables children to reach their full potential , that ensures computer whizzed kids attain their goals, that ensures the fashion designers have the necessary skills, that ensure the shop workers have great customer skills , that ensure the people keeping our streets cleaners have pride in their jobs due to them knowing all the local history and the local community and are able to leaise with others to keep the area safe.
If we want our children to become responsible adults they have to be allowed to learn and to have that learning facilitated , teaching doesn't work in it's present form and I suspect many teachers would gain much more job satisfaction from having their chains removed because they know the children and are able to recognise their areas of skill not some overpaid whitehall mandarin.
Todays parents have never had to make decisions we need to let kids learn for themselves only then will we have responsible adults.
Of course reducing state interference in education will save lotsa dosh and leave many educationalists job hunting but ....

Well put!!

The trouble is that many teachers themselves did not have a diverse education and as a consequence don't have the ability to pass on their knowledge, if they were allowed.

Unfortunately, we have developed a system that is almost wholly reliant on academic qualifications, the enthusiasm for young people to get a degree (at great cost to them), did however massage the youth unemployment figures.

We are seeing the entrance levels rise for even the most mundane of jobs, yes the top few, get really good jobs as they always did, the rest are left to be absorbed into the remainder of the jobs. But the standards have dropped over the years (endorsed by a good friend who used to set both GCE O & A level)

We have lied to our children and are now suffering the consequences.

Greed is at the bottom of much of this, how cheap can it be made and how much can I sell it for, as a consequence the majority of our manufacturing has been sent overseas. I blame the so called clever accountants, who like governments only think of short term gain.

I love this country and as some others have said, we are relatively well off, but if nothing is done soon to stop the decline and return to being more self sufficient and therefore less reliant on the vagaries of the world economy, we too can slide down the slippery slope that some our other European brethren are. Germany & France still have quite a good manufacturing industry compared to us, but they also feel pride in their country and will more often buy products from their own country, keeping it in the family.

This may sound dreadful, but in some ways, another great war would reduce the inflated expectations of the general populace, and get us working together again, looking after us as a nation. It would also reduce the population and provide jobs for those left.

Or are we already at war, with the international economy being a major weapon?

With that, I'll take cover before the incoming bullets and missiles find me!!

 

[Northerner]

Nearly all those in politics now have come directly from upper class schools, are qualified in law or accountancy and have never lived in the real world. None of them know what it's like to have to count the pennies and they have no understanding of struggling to pay the electricity or gas bill.

Er, no they haven't! Parliament is stuffed with people from many different professions, from authors, through soldiers and teachers. But perhaps you can explain to us how being a plumber or a factory worker prior to entering parliament will make you a better lawmaker because remember, that's the primary function of parliament, to govern and enact laws so that hopefully our lives continue to improve?

We get this same total nonsense about teachers: 'They've never been in the real world..blah, blah, blah' What's the real world? Is it a factory or a hospital or on the streets with a brush? How does working in any of these jobs make you more aware of anything?

I want my law makers to be educated and intelligent. Running a country isn't like running a small business for God's sake! Do we have to experience starvation to be able to understand it? Do we have to experience dire poverty to know what it must be like for those who suffer it? It's the more intelligent people who will actually be able to understand the plight of others, because they're intelligent!

I know, let's ban the following people from standing for Parliament:

Rich and successful people because they can never understand what it's like to be poor and struggle to make ends meet.

Poor people who will never understand the problems of the middle classes, the great bulwark of British society.

The middle classes who cannot understand the problems of the rich or the poor, never having experienced them.

School teachers who've never lived in the 'real world'.

Factory workers who've only ever worked in a factory and have no idea what goes on anywhere else.

No one with an IQ above average as that means that they're elitist and can never understand Sun readers.

That'll do for a start! I'm sure that those trades and professions remaining will provide enough suitable people for the very complex task of running a country and will propel the U.K into a new age of enlightenment and prosperity.

 

[Bigpeetee]

Er, no they haven't! Parliament is stuffed with people from many different professions, from authors, through soldiers and teachers. But perhaps you can explain to us how being a plumber or a factory worker prior to entering parliament will make you a better lawmaker because remember, that's the primary function of parliament, to govern and enact laws so that hopefully our lives continue to improve?

We get this same total nonsense about teachers: 'They've never been in the real world..blah, blah, blah' What's the real world? Is it a factory or a hospital or on the streets with a brush? How does working in any of these jobs make you more aware of anything?

I want my law makers to be educated and intelligent. Running a country isn't like running a small business for God's sake! Do we have to experience starvation to be able to understand it? Do we have to experience dire poverty to know what it must be like for those who suffer it? It's the more intelligent people who will actually be able to understand the plight of others, because they're intelligent!

I know, let's ban the following people from standing for Parliament:

Rich and successful people because they can never understand what it's like to be poor and struggle to make ends meet.

Poor people who will never understand the problems of the middle classes, the great bulwark of British society.

The middle classes who cannot understand the problems of the rich or the poor, never having experienced them.

School teachers who've never lived in the 'real world'.

Factory workers who've only ever worked in a factory and have no idea what goes on anywhere else.

No one with an IQ above average as that means that they're elitist and can never understand Sun readers.

That'll do for a start! I'm sure that those trades and professions remaining will provide enough suitable people for the very complex task of running a country and will propel the U.K into a new age of enlightenment and prosperity.

Hence my claim that there won't be the need for politicians when I become a benevolent dictator!!

 

[Somelier]

Er, no they haven't! Parliament is stuffed with people from many different professions, from authors, through soldiers and teachers.

Yes, but none of those are in positions that allow them to make decisions. It is the well-healed, privately educated types who make the decisions and there's more to ruling a country than just making laws, there's also the need to understand what the people require and what the country requires to become successful.

Because of the narrow experience of those in the cabinet over the last couple of decades, the majority of our manufacturing capabilities have disappeared and so has the education needed to train young people for such jobs. All that is considered by Government these days is service and financial industries, which is why we're now in the current situation as a nation!

Incidentally, the best teachers I have known have come into teaching from other professions!

 

[Northerner]

Yes, but none of those are in positions that allow them to make decisions. It is the well-healed, privately educated types who make the decisions and there's more to ruling a country than just making laws, there's also the need to understand what the people require and what the country requires to become successful.

Because of the narrow experience of those in the cabinet over the last couple of decades, the majority of our manufacturing capabilities have disappeared and so has the education needed to train young people for such jobs. All that is considered by Government these days is service and financial industries, which is why we're now in the current situation as a nation!

Incidentally, the best teachers I have known have come into teaching from other professions!

You really ought to do some research and see the number of different people from all walks of life who have made up the last few cabinets. And decisions are made by parliament, not by a few individuals. But once again I come back to the same argument. What is it about someone who has worked in factory, that makes him more understanding of the unemployed, if he's never been unemployed himself. Must MPs have experienced starvation to understand how unpleasant it is?

And do you really think that successive governments don't understand the importance of manufacturing and it's impact on our balance of payments? Do you really believe that they have deliberately reduced manufacturing in this country for some unfathomable reason? Or could it be competition from developing countries such as Japan was a few decades ago, or Korea or China? What about the impact of the unions on our car manufacturing, Red Robbo and his ilk?

I'm sorry, but all this bleating about 'They don't understand, they've never been in the real world' (whatever that is) is a load of unsubstantiated tosh.

Anyway, what would you do, stuff parliament with a load of factory workers and plumbers? Do you really think that would help? I can just see my gardener coming up with a policy to help see Britain through the Euro crisis. "Eh, what are you on about guv?"

 

[maingate]

The only thing I would take issue with in your post is the thing about identity cards. I know they are not popular but I can't help feeling that, along with a national DNA database, they would help to solve a lot of crimes. But before you come back at me, I know they could also be abused by an unscrupulous (ie take your pick of any of our parties) government. This is one of those issues on which I can see both sides of the coin.

My wife and I actually have an identity card as we took part in the pilot scheme.

The card has eye recognition, fingerprints etc but none of the information (like banking and NHS details) that changed my mind about them. I am still all for the system as long as it is not used for underhand purposes, it should only be for confirmation of identity.

 

[John H]

decisions are made by parliament, not by a few individuals.

I can just see my gardener coming up with a policy to help see Britain through the Euro crisis. "Eh, what are you on about guv?"

Both Naive AND Patronising - not a good look! :lol-053:

 

[John H]

.....and only a few Eton-educated, Oxbridge graduates are likely to be sufficiently well educated to understand the issues, so why not include them too?

 

[Coolasluck]

Benefits were supposedly designed for a helping hand and not a career option and that is the bottom line.
We need to be pro-active here in making claimants earn their handouts.In whatever they are doing they need to have some sence of selfworth and i see no reason why they cannot be made to work x amount of hours in the community or wherever else in that aim.
As it is now they are allowed to redundantly laze around without a care in the world whilst the rest of us have to fund them.
I also cannot fathom how it is that some of these people seem to be able to spend the majority of their time in the pub,which is what is happening where i live, it is an injustice and an insult to those that pay their taxes and alarm clock britain.
It is the do-gooders and nanny state that we have lived in over the last few decades that have got us into this position.
The goverment needs to be taking more action and faster,lets at the very least get them out of bed with the alarm clock like the rest of us who have had to do so to earn a living.
What we do need in the u.k is commonsense and a goverment with some conviction .

May i also make a suggestion that we start with the doctors who also contribute to the problem by handing out sick notes that prevent healthy individuals from working by handing out excuses.

 

[John H]

Benefits were supposedly designed for a helping hand and not a career option and that is the bottom line.
We need to be pro-active here in making claimants earn their handouts.In whatever they are doing they need to have some sence of selfworth and i see no reason why they cannot be made to work x amount of hours in the community or wherever else in that aim.
As it is now they are allowed to redundantly laze around without a care in the world whilst the rest of us have to fund them.
I also cannot fathom how it is that some of these people seem to be able to spend the majority of their time in the pub,which is what is happening where i live, it is an injustice and an insult to those that pay their taxes and alarm clock britain.
It is the do-gooders and nanny state that we have lived in over the last few decades that have got us into this position.
The goverment needs to be taking more action and faster,lets at the very least get them out of bed with the alarm clock like the rest of us who have had to do so to earn a living.
What we do need in the u.k is commonsense and a goverment with some conviction .

May i also make a suggestion that we start with the doctors who also contribute to the problem by handing out sick notes that prevent healthy individuals from working by handing out excuses.

Not sure about the blanket dismissal of "do-gooders" and doctors but, apart from that I totally agree. There are jobs that need doing, there are people available to do them and we are paying them anyway. It has always been a mystery to me why any developed country needs to have unemployment at all - give them jobs that need doing and pay them wages. Those who refuse to get off their backsides (without a serious medical or other reason) should be cut off from the system. There are, of course, potential complications such as "should the innocent children of a work-shy person be made to suffer too?" but it is not beyond the wit of a civilised society to overcome that one.

 

[kenjones]

An across the board cut in benefits is very high risk and will harm genuine needy people. Whenever benefits are mentoined there is a flood of anecdotal evedence about people abusing the system, no doubt they do exist and should be stopped. What about the genuine people who hate being put in this position, they should be helped not persecuted.
I'm fortunate in having worked all my life and never needed the benefit system but I don't hate all of those who have. Next month I become a retirement pensioner and as a "baby boomer" will be on the government hit list.
The real villains are in Westminster.
David Cameron is trying to score political point against disabled, elderly, unemployed and now young while giving away billions in overseas aid. He is so out of touch with real people.

 

[Northerner]

Just do what I do and ignore him! He just loves stirring things!