All electric motorhomes.... Possible or not?

I remember the first time gf had to use the Renault Zoe EV pool car, she wasn't happy and had argued against using it. After first trip she was hooked and would always request it from that day forward.
 
Fisherman said:
Martin, I got my first mobile phone in 1995. At the time all I got were negative comments from just about everyone. It was so basic it could only make calls nothing else. And it was so large it used to stick out of my jacket when placed in my inside pocket, I got it for business reasons. To make a call cost 50p a minute, and the phone cost around £300 to buy. Now all those that said why would anyone want a mobile phone have one. Right now I am posting this on an iPhone, which can do things we could only have dreamt of back in 1995.
Technology will improve, the cars will get cheaper, the infra structure will develop and when we are all history hardly anyone will be driving fossil fuelled vehicles of any sort. You actually won’t even be driving anymore, steering wheels and pedals being things you go to see in museums by then. And people will marvel how we managed to navigate large vehicles in tight roads full of other road users, with so few accidents.
Try reading the response from the end oh the 19th century when the horseless carriage was ridiculed, and we were told that it would never replace the horse and cart, and no one wanted them then either.
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All those things you mention, we have wanted, or at least have been led to believe we have wanted. Virtually no one wants an electric motor, we are constantly being hectored into it. Thus much of the reluctance, rightfully so.

"The futures bright, the future's orange." haha, got mobile in 94, still got the same number and my voicemail is the one I recorded in 94 too. Hows that for not moving on. 😛 😂
 
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There seems to be 2 major problems for the uptake of EVs.
Firstly is pollution and degradation of the environment in producing the elements necessary - the lithium and cobalt for the batteries, and the rare earth metals for the motors. The extent of this is staggering, but its not happening in the West so currently considered acceptable. The same rare earth metals are used in wind turbines, so they are hardly green. See "The Planet of the Humans" by Michael Mann to see how bad this is.
The second is electric supply - the UK doesn't have the vast surplus capacity that would be needed for the switch to EVs, and isn't planning the necessary increase. Instead it is rolling out smart meters so demand can be controlled by variable pricing according to demand. That and the lack of charging points will price out most people from being able to use EVs. That I think is the government plan - to drastically reduce the number of cars on the road, and the miles they travel.
 
Salt/silicate batteries are on their way to which there are loads of, by the time it all gets sorted most of us will not be driving or be here. :(
 
davef said:
There seems to be 2 major problems for the uptake of EVs.
Firstly is pollution and degradation of the environment in producing the elements necessary - the lithium and cobalt for the batteries, and the rare earth metals for the motors. The extent of this is staggering, but its not happening in the West so currently considered acceptable. The same rare earth metals are used in wind turbines, so they are hardly green. See "The Planet of the Humans" by Michael Mann to see how bad this is.
The second is electric supply - the UK doesn't have the vast surplus capacity that would be needed for the switch to EVs, and isn't planning the necessary increase. Instead it is rolling out smart meters so demand can be controlled by variable pricing according to demand. That and the lack of charging points will price out most people from being able to use EVs. That I think is the government plan - to drastically reduce the number of cars on the road, and the miles they travel.
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Lithium is a fairly common element, the UK has large reserves, if it continues to be used in batteries then in time it will be recycled.
Cobalt is fast disappearing from batteries, but is continued to be used for petroleum production.
Now compare that to oil extraction, it's a joke to try and say this is somehow better for the environment, but as you say most of it is somewhere else in the world, 'out of sight, out of mind'.
The electric supply is an interesting one, did you know that some EV owners are already helping the grid cope with peaks in demand?
 
mark61 said:
All those things you mention, we have wanted, or at least have been led to believe we have wanted. Virtually no one wants an electric motor, we are constantly being hectored into it. Thus much of the reluctance, rightfully so.

"The futures bright, the future's orange." haha, got mobile in 94, still got the same number and my voicemail is the one I recorded in 94 too. Hows that for not moving on. 😛 😂
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Mark, in 1995 hardly anyone wanted a mobile phone. Why, well they were expensive, the infra structure was poor with poor coverage, they were large bulky items with large batteries, they only lasted 8rs before needing to be recharged. Many kept them switched off due to this, only turning them on as required. Ring any bells mark. People only wanted them when they got cheaper, had better infra structure, when technology improved and when they could have them turned on all day without having to charge them or carry a spare battery.

Look at the example I gave with the first horseless carriages, nobody wanted them either. Comments such as, what happens if you run out of petrol, how will they manage to get stations were can get petrol everywhere, what happens if they break down, how will we get them moved, who will repair them. These were all obstacles that had to be overcome and they were.

I decided not to replace my diesel C220 this year. It’s 3 years old. I have decided to wait 4-5 years then I will go electric. Why. Well by then it’s reckoned they will be 10-15% cheaper than a diesel, their range will have increased by 50-75%, charging times will be reduced significantly, the infra structure will have improved enormously , they will be cheaper to fuel, maintain, and already are better to drive than diesels.

We can go on discussing this infinitum Mark, (which I won’t) but I guarantee you that by 2050 when we are pushing up daiseys, hardly anyone will be driving anything, you will be a passenger telling your non fossil fuelled mode of transport were you wish to travel and enjoying the view. I don’t want to sound arrogant, but that’s what will happen, no matter what you or I or anyone else thinks. Technology is advancing incredibly, who knows were we will be by then, but two things are certain non fossil fuelled cars will be the norm, and there will still be Luddites like your good self Mark telling us that man cannot inhabit Mars.
 
Fisherman said:
Mark, in 1995 hardly anyone wanted a mobile phone. Why, well they were expensive, the infra structure was poor with poor coverage, they were large bulky items with large batteries, they only lasted 8rs before needing to be recharged. Many kept them switched off due to this, only turning them on as required. Ring any bells mark. People only wanted them when they got cheaper, had better infra structure, when technology improved and when they could have them turned on all day without having to charge them or carry a spare battery.

Look at the example I gave with the first horseless carriages, nobody wanted them either. Comments such as, what happens if you run out of petrol, how will they manage to get stations were can get petrol everywhere, what happens if they break down, how will we get them moved, who will repair them. These were all obstacles that had to be overcome and they were.

I decided not to replace my diesel C220 this year. It’s 3 years old. I have decided to wait 4-5 years then I will go electric. Why. Well by then it’s reckoned they will be 10-15% cheaper than a diesel, their range will have increased by 50-75%, charging times will be reduced significantly, the infra structure will have improved enormously , they will be cheaper to fuel, maintain, and already are better to drive than diesels.

We can go on discussing this infinitum Mark, (which I won’t) but I guarantee you that by 2050 when we are pushing up daiseys, hardly anyone will be driving anything, you will be a passenger telling your non fossil fuelled mode of transport were you wish to travel and enjoying the view. I don’t want to sound arrogant, but that’s what will happen, no matter what you or I or anyone else thinks. Technology is advancing incredibly, who knows were we will be by then, but two things are certain non fossil fuelled cars will be the norm, and there will still be Luddites like your good self Mark telling us that man cannot inhabit Mars.
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I've been saying for years we won't be driving about, as we do these days, in 2050. Keep up 😛

I recently decided not to get a new van and wait and see what happens, but I've changed my mind again, :ROFLMAO: time to get back to MH layouts.
 
colinm said:
Lithium is a fairly common element, the UK has large reserves, if it continues to be used in batteries then in time it will be recycled.
Cobalt is fast disappearing from batteries, but is continued to be used for petroleum production.
Now compare that to oil extraction, it's a joke to try and say this is somehow better for the environment, but as you say most of it is somewhere else in the world, 'out of sight, out of mind'.
The electric supply is an interesting one, did you know that some EV owners are already helping the grid cope with peaks in demand?
Click to expand...
I agree that EV owners can help buffer peak demand supply by feeding in power at such times then recharging at low demand times. However have you considered that any battery has a finite number of times it can be charged and discharged, and each time it is used to buffer demand it is degrading the battery. Also, though it can be used to smooth demand it doesn't help produce the total amount of power that would be needed for a general switch to EVs.
 
mark61 said:
I've been saying for years we won't be driving about, as we do these days, in 2050. Keep up 😛

I recently decided not to get a new van and wait and see what happens, but I've changed my mind again, :ROFLMAO: time to get back to MH layouts.
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I have much better things to do than trying to keep up with your contradictory Luddite posts Mark. :) Like having my molars removed by someone who dislikes me, or watching Partick Thistle being thrashed 10-0 by our arch rivals in the first division:) life’s far to short for such engagements.
 
Fisherman said:
You may well laugh, you auld Luddite Mark.
If we make it to 2050, I will show you these posts, from an iPhone implant, whilst being taken out for a day at the seaside in a driverless hydrogen fuel cell bus by my carers. :)
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We may well think we have been taken to the seaside, but no, we'll be in a room that can replicate any seaside in the world, the wind, the smell, the whole lot, including the damp trunks :ROFLMAO:
 
I think that most of us can remember the Electric Milkfloats that was around in the 70s.
It’s hard to believe that it HASN'T gone more in the Bigger, Heavier Electric vehicle direction by now.
I’m still not convinced that it’s quite as environmentally friendly as it’s made out to be, Better YES, but With the Battery components, Asids, & Whatever, Then when you plug them in to recharge the power has to come from somewhere I don’t think we are quite there yet to be Reliably & viably ‘Green’ in this regard yet
 
mark61 said:
We may well think we have been taken to the seaside, but no, we'll be in a room that can replicate any seaside in the world, the wind, the smell, the whole lot, including the damp trunks :ROFLMAO:
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I reckon from your posts Mark, in your case it’s happening right now in your world :)
 
Nesting Zombie said:
I think that most of us can remember the Electric Milkfloats that was around in the 70s.
It’s hard to believe that it HASN'T gone more in the Bigger, Heavier Electric vehicle direction by now.
I’m still not convinced that it’s quite as environmentally friendly as it’s made out to be, Better YES, but With the Battery components, Asids, & Whatever, Then when you plug them in to recharge the power has to come from somewhere I don’t think we are quite there yet to be Reliably & viably ‘Green’ in this regard yet
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Funny you should mention milk floats.
Being the luddite I am, I still get milk delivered, in those funny old bottles. About a year ago, the blooming milky dumped his old float and got a Sprinter, not an electric one though, it's diesel. Thats my green virtue signalling out the window 🤣
 
davef said:
I agree that EV owners can help buffer peak demand supply by feeding in power at such times then recharging at low demand times. However have you considered that any battery has a finite number of times it can be charged and discharged, and each time it is used to buffer demand it is degrading the battery. Also, though it can be used to smooth demand it doesn't help produce the total amount of power that would be needed for a general switch to EVs.
Click to expand...
That's the thing most people have yet to get their head around, a car spends 95% of it's time sitting there doing SFA, start thinking of it as you way to reduce costs by actively using the battery to either store energy from PV's or taking off peak electricity, and it works a lot harder for it's living, yes batteries will degrade more, but so far they are proving to last much longer than expected, add in lowering prices, and recycling and it all makes sense.
 
davef said:
There seems to be 2 major problems for the uptake of EVs.
Firstly is pollution and degradation of the environment in producing the elements necessary - the lithium and cobalt for the batteries, and the rare earth metals for the motors. The extent of this is staggering, but its not happening in the West so currently considered acceptable. The same rare earth metals are used in wind turbines, so they are hardly green. See "The Planet of the Humans" by Michael Mann to see how bad this is.
The second is electric supply - the UK doesn't have the vast surplus capacity that would be needed for the switch to EVs, and isn't planning the necessary increase. Instead it is rolling out smart meters so demand can be controlled by variable pricing according to demand. That and the lack of charging points will price out most people from being able to use EVs. That I think is the government plan - to drastically reduce the number of cars on the road, and the miles they travel.
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Colin has answered your first point but your 2nd suggests that the government are not rolling out enormous offshore wind farms. It was in the news that the Queen got 9 billion for selling rights to large areas of the seabed. There are moves afoot even though they cannot be seen. Now wind is the cheapest way to make electricity things are taking off. There are many experiments in storing energy from when the wind is strong. To use when the wind is low. Many are in use now electric car batteries are just one way.
It is not just transport we need more electric for, we need to keep houses warm in winter without using gas too. Even that, a much bigger job, can be done if we have the will.
 
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