What Happened?

[John H]

After a great three months travelling around south-east Asia (without the motorhome!) I logged in to this site again to see what people had been talking about in my absence. I replied to one of the threads and then went off-line for a couple of days over Easter. Today, I logged in again to discover that the thread in question has disappeared. Two of the countries we recently visited have Communist Governments but no-one there attempted to censor what I said in my e-mails etc, yet I return to find that free speech on here is more limited than in Vietnam. I don't always agree with what some people say |(as you may have noticed!) but that's democracy - what on earth could anyone have said on that thread to justify removing the whole thing? If it was something illegal then why not just remove the post? Why remove the whole thread?

 

[Haaamster]

Some people have been getting shouty and rude lately, it's a shame really but it only seems to happen whenever we wander off MH or camping topics.

 

[John H]

Some people have been getting shouty and rude lately, it's a shame really but it only seems to happen whenever we wander off MH or camping topics.

True but there has always been a lot of shouting and rudeness on here (as there is currently on at least one other current thread) but I can't see that as a good reason to censor comment in a democracy. In fact, the continuing rudeness and, in some cases, downright obnoxiousness of some posters is a good demonstration of the fact that censorship doesn't work. Personally, I prefer things to be out in the open so I know who I'm dealing with.

 

[John H]

Bloody hell, John, you have only just come back and spotted something I have missed. What threads?

'morning ***** - the one about the death of that little girl on the campsite.

 

[John H]

Hi, I didn't know it was missing, just had a look under general and it is not there.
Did not see any reason for it to go, but not really an nice subject to keep on a forum, maybe that is why?

True, but if "niceness" was a criteria for posting on here there would be very few posts!

 

[Haaamster]

Didn't really read a lot of that thread but from what I did read I think a few people jumped the gun when it looked like the parents were arrested and vented their fury on them. Certain others correctly pointed out that the parents may not be guilty of anything and it kicked off from there. I may be wrong but I think thats the gist of it.

 

[Admin]

Could you tell me which motorhome related / wildcamping related thread this was please?

 

[David & Ann]

Even PHIL our Boss does not know which thread it was. Myself, I am just back after 3 1/2 months, at this rate I need another vacation, too old to rack my brains.
By the way, how did it go John H? Nice to know you are still around. Old Arthur too ☺☺☺

 

[Robmac]

Not too sure what happened to the thread in question, but I would imagine it closed as a mark of respect (or to prevent disrespect). It was starting to develop into a row about police procedures.

 

[Admin]

The thread about

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isabelle Harris the six year old girl that died after having a seizure was removed as I had many complaints about the thread as it implied that the parents were responsible for Isabelle's natural death. I felt that this thread was not really relevant to this website and decided to delete it. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I make no apologises for this deletion.
[/FONT]​

 

[David & Ann]

The thread about

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isabelle Harris the six year old girl that died after having a seizure was removed as I had many complaints about the thread as it implied that the parents were responsible for Isabelle's natural death. I felt that this thread was not really relevant to this website and decided to delete it. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I make no apologises for this deletion.
[/FONT]​

Thank you for updating us. I agree, it was the right decision.

 

[John H]

The thread about

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Isabelle Harris the six year old girl that died after having a seizure was removed as I had many complaints about the thread as it implied that the parents were responsible for Isabelle's natural death. I felt that this thread was not really relevant to this website and decided to delete it. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I make no apologises for this deletion.
[/FONT]​

In this thread, I am not going to comment on the content of the deleted thread; simply that I am disappointed that it was deleted. Saying that it was nothing to do with wildcamping is odd, because if you only allowed threads that were directly related to wildcamping then there would be very little usage of the forum at all - and people who wildcamp do have opinions about other things. If whenever we met up we talked only about wildcamping spots we would be a pretty boring bunch! Conversations often go along lines that some people don't like and if that happens then they can leave the discussion - what I cannot accept is that they have the right to stop others talking about something just because they don't like it. There are lots of discussions I don't like but I've never asked for anything to be removed (except spam).

Anyway - as regular readers will know - this is my usual fruitless annual plea for free speech. I'll leave it for now (but I will come back to it later!).

 

[John H]

By the way, how did it go John H? Nice to know you are still around. Old Arthur too ☺☺☺

Hi David, it went very well indeed - and I trust your Australian adventure was just as good. I'd go into more detail but because our trip had nothing to do with wildcamping it cannot be discussed here (sorry about that - naughty of me but I just couldn't resist it!).

 

[Admin]

In this thread, I am not going to comment on the content of the deleted thread; simply that I am disappointed that it was deleted. Saying that it was nothing to do with wildcamping is odd, because if you only allowed threads that were directly related to wildcamping then there would be very little usage of the forum at all - and people who wildcamp do have opinions about other things. If whenever we met up we talked only about wildcamping spots we would be a pretty boring bunch! Conversations often go along lines that some people don't like and if that happens then they can leave the discussion - what I cannot accept is that they have the right to stop others talking about something just because they don't like it. There are lots of discussions I don't like but I've never asked for anything to be removed (except spam).

Anyway - as regular readers will know - this is my usual fruitless annual plea for free speech. I'll leave it for now (but I will come back to it later!).

I understand your position on free speech, however I can not even start to understand how you can even connect this deletion with free speech.
A family tragically lost their young Daughter and an article was published on this website that incorrectly implied that they had murdered their beloved child. I can not imagine the trauma that they are now going through and I honestly hope they can recover from this.

The fact that you have used this thread to drag out your anti-communism / free speech soap box really has angered me. Have some respect. Just because something is deleted it is not automatically an infringement of free speech.

 

[John H]

I understand your position on free speech, however I can not even start to understand how you can even connect this deletion with free speech.
A family tragically lost their young Daughter and an article was published on this website that incorrectly implied that they had murdered their beloved child. I can not imagine the trauma that they are now going through and I honestly hope they can recover from this.

The fact that you have used this thread to drag out your anti-communism / free speech soap box really has angered me. Have some respect. Just because something is deleted it is not automatically an infringement of free speech.

1. If an opinion - however obnoxious you and I might find it - is deleted then that is clearly, by definition, a move against free speech. Some restrictions on freedom are imposed by law but you have not claimed that reason here so I assume it does not apply.
2. My memory of the thread is not that people were accusing the parents of murder; rather that the comments were mainly directed against the police for following what seemed to me to be correct procedures. Of course, inbetween my last visit to the thread and the deletion it could be that people started accusing the parents but I wouldn't know that because I was denied the opportunity to read those posts.
3. I had to laugh at the comment about my "anti-communism", since most criticism of me on this forum that I am a dangerous leftie! And I make no apology for constantly getting on my "free speech soapbox" - I will no doubt have ocassion to return to it.

 

[Admin]

1. If an opinion - however obnoxious you and I might find it - is deleted then that is clearly, by definition, a move against free speech. Some restrictions on freedom are imposed by law but you have not claimed that reason here so I assume it does not apply.
2. My memory of the thread is not that people were accusing the parents of murder; rather that the comments were mainly directed against the police for following what seemed to me to be correct procedures. Of course, inbetween my last visit to the thread and the deletion it could be that people started accusing the parents but I wouldn't know that because I was denied the opportunity to read those posts.
3. I had to laugh at the comment about my "anti-communism", since most criticism of me on this forum that I am a dangerous leftie! And I make no apology for constantly getting on my "free speech soapbox" - I will no doubt have ocassion to return to it.

John you are seriously suggesting that deleting this thread was clearly a move against free speech?

Well let me make this the clear. If this situation or simular one arises again I shall with no hesitation delete it.

 

[maingate]

In the last 12 months, JohnH has travelled through Morocco, Libya and Egypt.

His latest trip was through Syria.

Need I say more? :dance:

 

[Northerner]

I gather that this was the situation. Some days ago a child died whilst staying on a New Forest Camp site. The police arrested the parents on suspicion of murder as the death appeared suspicious. After a thorough investigation it transpired that the child had accidentally died from carbon monoxide poisoning from a barbecue-like contraption and that the parents were totally innocent. I can imagine nothing worse than losing a child and finding yourself accused of his/her murder. It must have been a nightmare.

It would appear from what I've read so far (as I had no part in the thread) that some people of the lynch-mob mentality blamed the parents and made up their minds without any evidence that they were guilty. Exactly the same thing happened after the murder of the honeymoon bride in South Africa, although I'm not sure if it was on this thread or on Motorhome Fun. Some people decided that he must be guilty and one man even said that he'd definitely done it for the dowry, although later it transpired that no dowry had ever been paid. I still have a totally open mind on this case.

I'm all for free speech and if someone wants to accuse the parents of murder let them do it directly to them and risk being sued under the defamation laws. However, libelling someone in a third-party medium such as a forum or a newspaper also puts the owner of the forum or newspaper at risk of being enjoined in any libel action. Why should Phil be liable for for the actions of of some very unwise and unkind people who haven't the decency or good sense to wait for the full facts to emerge before deciding that a totally innocent couple, who have just lost a child, are murderers.

It was right to delete the thread and he should do it again in similar circumstances.

 

[Tbear]

John you are seriously suggesting that deleting this thread was clearly a move against free speech?

Well let me make this the clear. If this situation or simular one arises again I shall with no hesitation delete it.

Phil

I did not read the thread as I have to deal with death and disease in my professional life so have little interest in it during my leisure time but I have to agree with John H. Giving the more grounded people on here a chance to educate some on the fringe of reality has got to be better than censorship. You have enabled members to ignore the people that they have no wish to listen to so if a thread is not overtly offencive, perhaps joining in the discussion and helping direct it?

Richard

 

[Deleted member 21686]

John you are seriously suggesting that deleting this thread was clearly a move against free speech?

Well let me make this the clear. If this situation or simular one arises again I shall with no hesitation delete it.

Well said Phil.
It is a real sad case without us making uneducated comments from afar.