Travellers set up camp near Blackpool.

[Deleted member 64209]

In your first post you state the council with police help shifted them on where they have settled in another car park owned by the same council it sounds like (Fylde)

I will say it again the council should not have moved them on in the first place had they followed government guidance

Councils for years prior to covid haven’t fulfilled their obligations to provide pitches temporary or otherwise to travellers

Covid has purely brought a problem home to roost

In the vast majority of cases this is a lifestyle choice, in a sense it's 'Full-timing' but not funded by hard-earned savings, or well deserved pensions but funded [again in the majority of cases not all] by crime. I'm sure the when 100% of folks on this forum go 'wilding', full timing or to a site for under so many days are we subsidised? Are pitches provided free? Do we get our fuel from some unsuspecting lorry owners tank [often by 'spiking' i.e. wrecking it by the way], do we shop-lift en-masse for our supplies? Do we leave behind piles of toxic filth? If we are politely asked to move on by the land owner or Police do we insult, threaten and or abuse them, then agree to move and renege on the agreement? No I thought not... When an inch is given most often a mile is taken.. this lot proves it...

I am so very very privileged to not have to subsidise that any more and live where my things are safe and folks keep their surroundings clean and tidy...

 

[runnach]

The 'Travellers' have only their own 'rules' one of them being 'what's yours is ours' another rhymes with 'duck the lot of you', plenty of rules broken here... and guess who pays to sort it out every single [ever-increasing] time?

View attachment 82243

tThanks for posting that I would totally agree unacceptable but a pictorial example of a council failing in its duties ...take my own Kirklees they spent year before last £105,000 clearing up shite from traveller encampments. But and herss the knob councils spending £105,000 is cheaper than providing proper facilities

 

[jagmanx]

Cheaper maybe
Not as good deffo
But travellers cannot expect to live free !
They clearly make money for food snd fuel !
I choose to not ask how.
But many who live on the fringes in proper houses are also guilty of indiscrestions
Eh Dale Farm

 

[st3v3]

We've got them on Bristol Downs at the moment....

 

[runnach]

Cheaper maybe
Not as good deffo
But travellers cannot expect to live free !
They clearly make money for food snd fuel !
I choose to not ask how.
But many who live on the fringes in proper houses are also guilty of indiscrestions
Eh Dale Farm

They don’t expect to live free rent and council tax is payable

 

[GreggBear]

My point is it is councils that are misplacing them not the travellers ignoring the rules

They have already displaced themselves in order to be there. If they have travelled to get there they should be dealt with just the same as you or I would be dealt with. Why should they be showed leniency? Plenty of people on here also live permanently in their vans etc, maybe they should all go to Blackpool then argue that the council should leave them alone?....

 

[runnach]

In the vast majority of cases this is a lifestyle choice, in a sense it's 'Full-timing' but not funded by hard-earned savings, or well deserved pensions but funded [again in the majority of cases not all] by crime. I'm sure the when 100% of folks on this forum go 'wilding', full timing or to a site for under so many days are we subsidised? Are pitches provided free? Do we get our fuel from some unsuspecting lorry owners tank [often by 'spiking' i.e. wrecking it by the way], do we shop-lift en-masse for our supplies? Do we leave behind piles of toxic filth? If we are politely asked to move on by the land owner or Police do we insult, threaten and or abuse them, then agree to move and renege on the agreement? No I thought not... When an inch is given most often a mile is taken.. this lot proves it...

I am so very very privileged to not have to subsidise that any more and live where my things are safe and folks keep their surroundings clean and tidy...

No idea where you live ,BUT every point you make doesn’t apply to the settled commmunity then ?

 

[runnach]

They have already displaced themselves in order to be there. If they have travelled to get there they should be dealt with just the same as you or I would be dealt with. Why should they be showed leniency? Plenty of people on here also live permanently in their vans etc, maybe they should all go to Blackpool then argue that the council should leave them alone?....

Have they ? We don’t know the circumstances if moved on by a court they had no choice, subsequently councils have shifted them on we know that bit..for the record I would agree if they have just upped sticks and moved then the law should prevail ...but that isn’t my gut reaction

 

[st3v3]

if they have just upped sticks and moved

I'll bet this, as there is normally only so much thieving to be done in one area...

I know, only a minority bla bla bla

 

[mariesnowgoose]

This argument will go round and round forever.

The fact of the matter is that travellers are only using the laws of the land in a similar way that we as wild campers seek to use them, i.e. we do not want to be impeded from staying in places we want to visit.

I can see the arguments from both sides.

What I don't agree with, and never have, is using the 'discrimination' argument when it is convenient to do so because it gives you a defence against totally unacceptable behaviour. Not only do councils not provide sufficient places for travellers to stay, but the police are also understaffed and afraid to deal with some of the more entrenched criminal behaviours of some travelling communities.

There is unacceptable behaviour on both sides of the fence, travellers and non-travellers, but the travelling community use the law to their great advantage in many cases. They've had no other choice in the past, and it was a very good thing that those laws were there to protect them in certain circumstances.

However, I would argue that the 'past' is a lot longer ago than gives credibility to present-day arguments defending travellers, especially as increasingly a lot more of the younger generation of travellers now live permanently in fixed housing, and that's in mainstream housing or their own land, not just on permanent traveller sites.

 

[Deleted member 64209]

Somebody should write an angry letter to the Council.

Save the stamp, just wee in the wind instead...less effort, more satisfying...

 

[GreggBear]

Plenty of councils spend large sums of money providing sites for travellers, only to see them trashed by the very people who piss & moan about the lack of sites!
Plenty of evidence exists about sites being turned into Scrapyard's & clearing yards for stolen property, I personally know people who have had property stolen by these people & traced it back to these sites only to be told by the police that they darent enter the sites to retrieve their goods!
They hide behind any laws they can while shitting all over each & every decent law abiding individual who has their face rubbed in the dirt regularly by a system that panders to them.
If the police darent go onto these sites, the army should be mobilised, if these travellers break the law they should be treated the same as you or I would be.
Time for people to see things for what they are & say "enough is enough"

 

[trevskoda]

Most of the ones i know round my gaf keep the place tidy and clean,ones who live in west belfast ,well best say no more.

 

[Deleted member 64209]

Cheaper maybe
Not as good deffo
But travellers cannot expect to live free !
They clearly make money for food snd fuel !
I choose to not ask how.
But many who live on the fringes in proper houses are also guilty of indiscrestions
Eh Dale Farm

Dale Farm... what a fiasco... I lived near there too and knew plenty of folks that had had little trouble with thefts before it became a cess-pit and then nothing was safe whether nailed down or not. Pure coincidence of course. Various reports of what it cost to try and enforce the law - £7,000,000 - £18,000,000... it's still expanding, without Planning Permission of course... and on Green Belt land...

Now the official action appears to have reverted to...

 

[runnach]

Plenty of councils spend large sums of money providing sites for travellers, only to see them trashed by the very people who piss & moan about the lack of sites!
Plenty of evidence exists about sites being turned into Scrapyard's & clearing yards for stolen property, I personally know people who have had property stolen by these people & traced it back to these sites only to be told by the police that they darent enter the sites to retrieve their goods!
They hide behind any laws they can while shitting all over each & every decent law abiding individual who has their face rubbed in the dirt regularly by a system that panders to them.
If the police darent go onto these sites, the army should be mobilised, if these travellers break the law they should be treated the same as you or I would be.
Time for people to see things for what they are & say "enough is enough"

Few councils provided facilities but do you know why some of the organised sites are trashed ? All you see is the remnants and understandable assume the occupants were animals

The majority of traveller sites have planning permission for 5 years often less and isn’t renewed, that leaves folk back on the road it is this resentment that creates the vandalism , whilst I understand the anger I don’t agree with the vandalism albeit the sites will be raised anyway.

In your neck I can think of four sites that planning was revoked on the A19 or just off itself sites kept tidy, not the hotbed of crime where are the people now ? Car parks that can’t be the answer

 

[Asterix]

From personal experience,when I first came to the UK I was disgusted at the general attitude towards travellers,but after a couple of years working for Poole council,my views bacame the same as everyone else's. They had a dedicated stopping place with toilets, showers and bins provided,they were destroyed,the site was filled with general waste then the council cleared it out,demolished the toilet block and gave it back to the travellers as a permanent residence.
There's plenty of discrimination in this country, unfortunately it's not directed at anyone with an Irish accent. As a fulltimer I feel discriminated against because I would be fined,arrested or have my vehicle confiscated if I inflicted those sorts of behaviours on society. Any infraction of the rules and the law is quick to pounce and rightfully so, except for a certain group of people.
I service a private traveller site as part of my summer job,the site is owned and run by a traveller of some standing in their community but he's driven to distraction every year by the disrespectful attitude of some that want to fill the place with waste or have punch ups at all hours,I realise not all of them are like that but that's where the law needs to harden up and do its job.

 

[GreggBear]

Lot of sites I in my locality been here for much longer than 5 yrs, I would be happy if I was allowed to live on my own piece of land for 5 years....
Who else other than "animals" would smash up a brand new toilet block, removing & scrapping every bit of copper pipe etc, including washing machines, showers etc, then use the empty block as a stable?
If people behave like animals they will be viewed as animals, nobody's fault but their own.
If I saw how these sites were abused & vandalized, I too would refuse planning for other sites....

 

[st3v3]

This is a site near us, on the way to avonmouth. It's rarely used, and when it is, it's full of crap.

But why would you use it, when this is just up the road?

And you can ignore the rules and park up wherever you like. Especially as the area is surrounded by very well off houses.

This is early in the latest invasion:

 

[Nabsim]

The story states that they turned up over the weekend,were moved on and settled themselves in another car park,the council were right to move them on as the rules state they should be wherever they were at the start of lockdown. They should be facing charges for breaking lockdown rules,they should have been directed back to wherever they came from originally.

Yes councils were supposed to make sure they were okay at the start of the lockdown but this has not been applied across the board. I do know some full timers who have been treated properly by councils and police but I also know Wiltshire council (with police) moved some friends on, when one asked where they should go as the government are saying stay put a councillor turned round and said 'You are a traveller aren't you so go a f'ing travel somewhere else'. These were not romany/gypsy travellers (nt that it should have made a difference but full timers.

 

[Asterix]

Yes councils were supposed to make sure they were okay at the start of the lockdown but this has not been applied across the board. I do know some full timers who have been treated properly by councils and police but I also know Wiltshire council (with police) moved some friends on, when one asked where they should go as the government are saying stay put a councillor turned round and said 'You are a traveller aren't you so go a f'ing travel somewhere else'. These were not romany/gypsy travellers (nt that it should have made a difference but full timers.

If they had stood their ground I can't imagine any judge going against emergency lock down rules,maybe they weren't fully aware of their rights at this time?