Towbars.

Different make MH (2009) but I needed a towbar as we need to pull a box trailer to motocross meetings. My Fiat chassis stopped well short of the rear of the vehicle. I had to get it custom made - chassis extenders and a full length rear bar which the tow ball bolts on to. The company attached a metal plate with date, reg no, towing capacity, and some other code nos. Real professional job. Wouldn't have even considered doing it my self - visions of the box trailer going in a different direction down the motorway. The rails obviously provide extra support for the floor but presume that wasn't really needed as the MH company would have done this when it was built otherwise. I had it MOTd a few weeks ago with no advisories. Bob

Which means that the company were willing to stand by their
workmanship and knowledge. Good enough.
After all there's no way they could apply actual calculations or test to failure point all or any of the custom jobs they may carry out.
At the end of the day the empirical method with a safety margin (FOS) carried out by an experienced firm is
likely the only option on some M/homes.
The equivalent of the VHM (as my post #?) is what they could resort to, just to make as certain as they can of any strength and safety issues.

Just as an exercise I calculated the steel section dims. needed for the frame
for my rear rack, but had to take an educated guess on what
the actual Merc. chassis cantilever legs could take, because (a) the strange shape and (b) what was the pre-existing load on the legs from the body and interior fittings plus carried gear eg gas bottles.
So although my rack is strong enough, am I sure my chassis is, other than by the VHM
method?
 
With a home made tow bar you apply the
the VHB Standard. That is you ask the Very Heaviest
Bloke or (Woman Bloke) you can find, to jump and
down on it.

I used a safety factor of 3 with this method.
 
I used a safety factor of 3 with this method.


You can't have a big enough multiple for a FOS! Well you
can there comes a point where the m/home
exceeds the permitted GVW, before the camper loads it up!

You may be aware or not;
Actually for buildings the FOS used for on site construction structural
work can be around 4, unless there is extra special
supervision and control. Chances of second rate work getting
overlooked is mainly the reason why. Even where weight isn't
necessarily of prime importance there has to be a line drawn
somewhere.
 
I got it done at Armitage in W. Yorks after doing research. They specialise in mh towbars and A Frames.
 
You can't have a big enough multiple for a FOS! Well you
can there comes a point where the m/home
exceeds the permitted GVW, before the camper loads it up!

You may be aware or not;
Actually for buildings the FOS used for on site construction structural
work can be around 4, unless there is extra special
supervision and control. Chances of second rate work getting
overlooked is mainly the reason why. Even where weight isn't
necessarily of prime importance there has to be a line drawn
somewhere.


For hanging aircraft inside buildings we use FOS of 6.
 
Hello all...:wave:
I have a Ci carioca 694 and as i like a little project i was going to fabricate a towbar to fit.. Now I've done some measurements and have a plan in mind ( and the steel in the garage ).. but i'd like to see if somebody out there has the same van and wouldn't mind posting an image of how their towbar is designed. Bit of a long shot but lets see... TIA. Ian

Dont let the doom and gloom folk worry you fella, think it all through, and you'll no doubt over engineer it anyway. How much weight are you going to be towing? if its only a small 750kg unbraked trailer you'll have no worries at all, towing a car will need a bit more thought, but i'm sure you will crack it. If an mot tester asks you any questions tell him it was fitted when you bought the motor.
You'll no doubt do as i do, make it, take it for a test drive, crawl under the van every time you stop checking bolts and welds, then your confidence will grow until you dont give it a second thought. I've fitted a hydro electric tail lift to carry my BMW, dont give it any thought at all now, and sleep very well at night even tho i haven't had it type approved nor have i told my insurance, or the mot tester, or anybody else that could tell me i have to take it off and stop enjoying my life. Just because it has a sticker on it doesn't mean it will be any better than one you will make yourself.

Stu
 
Dont let the doom and gloom folk worry you fella, think it all through, and you'll no doubt over engineer it anyway. How much weight are you going to be towing? if its only a small 750kg unbraked trailer you'll have no worries at all, towing a car will need a bit more thought, but i'm sure you will crack it. If an mot tester asks you any questions tell him it was fitted when you bought the motor.
You'll no doubt do as i do, make it, take it for a test drive, crawl under the van every time you stop checking bolts and welds, then your confidence will grow until you dont give it a second thought. I've fitted a hydro electric tail lift to carry my BMW, dont give it any thought at all now, and sleep very well at night even tho i haven't had it type approved nor have i told my insurance, or the mot tester, or anybody else that could tell me i have to take it off and stop enjoying my life. Just because it has a sticker on it doesn't mean it will be any better than one you will make yourself.

Stu
Couldn't agree more, mine is well over engineered, I didn't trust it at first and now I don't think twice about it lol. When I filled out the insurance form, it asked me if I had any convictions or accidents never once asked if I had a towbar fitted.

Regards,
Del
 
I would suggest to anyone who modifies their van by fitting a towbar that they inform their insurance company.
Every van I've fitted a towbar to has required some form of modification, and every insurance form I've filled in asked if the van is modified. The added cost to my insurance on vans in the last few decades has been £0
 
I would suggest to anyone who modifies their van by fitting a towbar that they inform their insurance company.
Every van I've fitted a towbar to has required some form of modification, and every insurance form I've filled in asked if the van is modified. The added cost to my insurance on vans in the last few decades has been £0

According to This is Money fitting a towbar can lower premiums, I don't know how much truth there is in it though
The ten car modifications that will see insurance costs soar | This is Money
 
Not everything you can do is classed as a modification, as an example if you fit a sidecar to a motorbike nowadays they do not class as an outfit anymore.

The sidecar is an accessory
 
I would suggest to anyone who modifies their van by fitting a towbar that they inform their insurance company.
Every van I've fitted a towbar to has required some form of modification, and every insurance form I've filled in asked if the van is modified. The added cost to my insurance on vans in the last few decades has been £0

Not sure what you are defining as a 'form of modification' unless it is the act of just adding something - in which case adding a towbar will ALWAYS be a modification in that respect.

Wondering as 3 of the last towbars I have fitted to 4 different vehicles have required NO modifications in terms of making a change to an existing part of the vehicle excepting in the one case of the VW T5 where you must remove the original metal cross-member to replace with the towbar part.
All the others just bolted onto existing mounting points and the wiring connected to existing wiring. No adjustment, cutting or adaption of any existing parts.

As far as modifications go, the only ones that insurance companies seem to care about is mechanical ones ... Engine and Brakes. (As I always have self-conversions, the question "any modifications?" is always taken as yes, and the real question is "have you made it more powerful")
 
Not everything you can do is classed as a modification, as an example if you fit a sidecar to a motorbike nowadays they do not class as an outfit anymore.

The sidecar is an accessory
When I last renewed my motorcycle insurance I was asked two direct questions.

1. Will I be towing a trailer

2. Will I carry a pillion passenger

:wave:
 
Not sure what you are defining as a 'form of modification' unless it is the act of just adding something - in which case adding a towbar will ALWAYS be a modification in that respect.

Wondering as 3 of the last towbars I have fitted to 4 different vehicles have required NO modifications in terms of making a change to an existing part of the vehicle excepting in the one case of the VW T5 where you must remove the original metal cross-member to replace with the towbar part.
All the others just bolted onto existing mounting points and the wiring connected to existing wiring. No adjustment, cutting or adaption of any existing parts.

As far as modifications go, the only ones that insurance companies seem to care about is mechanical ones ... Engine and Brakes. (As I always have self-conversions, the question "any modifications?" is always taken as yes, and the real question is "have you made it more powerful")


What happens if I lie on my car insurance policy? | insurethebox |

Modifications
If you modify your car, for example by making simple cosmetic changes and not just performance enhancing changes such as upgrading the exhaust, you must still let your insurer know.


What is the risk?
Providing false information can invalidate your policy. This means that the insurer has the right to cancel your policy, leaving you unprotected in the event of a claim and also possibly treating you as an uninsured driver. You can find out the consequences of driving uninsured here.

Drivers who have had their policy cancelled will have to declare this on any future applications, so it may be more difficult and expensive to get covered. Depending on the severity your insurer could also prosecute you for fraud, and this will mean you become blacklisted by nearly all major car insurers in the future.

:wave:
 
I told my insurer that I towed a box trailer and they confirmed it would be insured in respect of third part risks if I was involved in an accident but nothing else.
 
Not sure what you are defining as a 'form of modification' unless it is the act of just adding something - in which case adding a towbar will ALWAYS be a modification in that respect.

Wondering as 3 of the last towbars I have fitted to 4 different vehicles have required NO modifications in terms of making a change to an existing part of the vehicle excepting in the one case of the VW T5 where you must remove the original metal cross-member to replace with the towbar part.
All the others just bolted onto existing mounting points and the wiring connected to existing wiring. No adjustment, cutting or adaption of any existing parts.


The last two vans, a T25 required cutting the metal bumper to clear the mounting brackets, x250 Maxi required drilling of chassis and minor mods to plastic bumper, both these towbars where TUV approved. But either way the vans don't come from factory with towbars fitted, so they may be classed as modifications by a insurance company. For those that need chassis extensions to fit a towbar it would be pretty hard to argue that it isn't a modification.
 
Yup, they would be mods I guess. Having to cut parts or remove parts is not the norm though I think.

I have no idea if my current insurance company knows if I have a towbar or not. As mentioned, all they care about is performance mods and that is all they asked about (the list of 'modifications' would go on for ever on a campervan Conversion and that is why they don't ask and care even when info is offered)
 
I always smile when I see posts about making sure you inform your Insurance Company, if your vehicle is stolen or damaged and you have a towbar fitted and you didn't inform your Insurance Company they still have to pay out, if you have made other modifications which would have meant they would have increased your premium if it had been declared you might have problems but they still have to pay something if you didn't deliberately misinform them, but the Insurance Ombudsman is very fair as the following cases show

79/10
insurer refuses to pay claim for theft of car because consumer had not disclosed the modifications made to his vehicle
Mr T's car was stolen from the street where he parked it while he was visiting his local gym. He put in a claim under his motor policy and later told us he was "totally shocked" when his insurer refused to pay out.
The insurer said it was clear from the information Mr T provided in his claim that the car had been modified. However, he had never notified the insurer of any modifications and he had answered "no", when asked on the proposal form if he had modified or altered the car.
The insurer had therefore "voided" his policy (in effect treating it as though it had never existed) and it told Mr T he was not covered for the theft. Mr T complained that he was being treated unfairly, but the insurer would not alter its view, so he came to us.
complaint upheld
Mr T confirmed that he had added "a satnav unit, Bluetooth kit, Playstation and CD changer". However, he said he regarded these as "simple additions, not modifications".
We looked at the proposal form that Mr T had completed when applying for his policy. This included a question headed "Modifications", asking if there had been "any changes to the engine, plus any cosmetic changes to the bodywork, suspension, wheels or brakes". Mr T had answered "no".
We accepted the insurer's point that the changes Mr T had made could well have made his car more attractive to thieves. However, there was nothing on the proposal form to indicate that it considered changes of this type to be "modifications". We did not see that Mr T could reasonably have been expected to know, from the examples given by the insurer, that he should have answered "yes" to the question about modifications.
We upheld the complaint and said the insurer should settle the claim in line with the usual terms and conditions of the policy. We said it should also add interest, from the date when the car was stolen to the date when the claim was settled.
79/11
insurer refuses to pay claim for theft of car because consumer had not disclosed the modifications made to his vehicle
Mr C returned from a short business trip to find his car had been stolen from the side-road where he usually parked it, close to his house. He rang the insurer to report the theft and, while confirming the details, he mentioned that several modifications had been made to the car.
The insurer was not aware that the car had been modified in any way. It told Mr C it would never have offered him insurance if it had known about the modifications. It declared his policy "void" and rejected his claim. Very unhappy with this outcome, Mr C brought his complaint to us.
complaint upheld
Mr C accepted that he had made a number of changes to his car - but he disputed the insurer's view that these changes amounted to "modifications".
We looked at what the insurer had said about modifications when Mr C applied for his policy. He had completed his application online and we noted that there was a clearly-worded section asking for details of any modifications. Applicants were told to phone the insurer if they were at all unsure about the type of information they were required to provide in this section.
We then checked what Mr C had told the insurer when he reported the theft of his car. The insurer's recording of the call showed that Mr C had not had any difficulty understanding the question when asked if his car had "any modifications". He had responded by detailing all the changes that had been made to his car. We therefore concluded that he had been aware these changes amounted to modifications and that he had failed to disclose them when he applied for his policy.
The insurer argued that Mr C's failure to disclose the modifications was a "material fact"- in other words, something that would influence an underwriter when deciding whether to offer insurance in a particular case, and the terms and conditions that should apply.
In cases where a consumer "deliberately" or "recklessly" fails to disclose a material fact, the insurer is able to "void" the policy (treat it as if it never existed). But if the non-disclosure was "innocent" or "inadvertent", then the insurer should re-write the insurance on the terms it would have offered - if it had known all the facts.
When we asked the insurer to provide evidence of the approach it would have adopted, if it had known the full facts in this case, it sent us a copy of its underwriting manual. This indicated that if the insurer had known about the modifications, it would still have offered to cover Mr C, but it would have increased the premium by 75%.
We had found no evidence to suggest that Mr C had acted "deliberately" or "recklessly" in failing to disclose the modifications - and we concluded that his non-disclosure was "inadvertent". The premium he had paid was only a proportion of the full amount he would have paid - if the insurer had known all the facts. So we said the insurer should pay part of Mr C's claim to reflect the proportion of the (correct) premium that he had actually paid.


issue 79 - motor insurance - disputes about the quality of repairs and the non-disclosure of vehicle modifications
 
I always smile when I see posts about making sure you inform your Insurance Company, if your vehicle is stolen or damaged and you have a towbar fitted and you didn't inform your Insurance Company they still have to pay out, if you have made other modifications which would have meant they would have increased your premium if it had been declared you might have problems but they still have to pay something if you didn't deliberately misinform them, but the Insurance Ombudsman is very fair as the following cases show




issue 79 - motor insurance - disputes about the quality of repairs and the non-disclosure of vehicle modifications


If a vehicle is stolen or damaged a towbar would be immaterial to the loss, aside from maybe any difference in value but that would be minimal to non existent. If on the other hand an accident occurred that involved towing or the towbar that could be viewed by a insurance company as not being covered, and whilst they will cover third parties, they might argue not to cover you, or worse still to pursue you for costs, highly unlikely, but for the sake of telling them you have fitted a towbar why take any risk.
 
Funny how a simple question about towbars can become a legal lesson in insurance, I suspect non of us are lawyers or even employed in the insurance business yet we have an insurance company on here who offer us a discount for being full members but so far haven't come forward with any comments. I understand that it's not possible for them to read all posts on here so maybe someone should start a new post specifically asking the question and the title should at least get their attention.

Regards,
Del
 
That's my point. Why would anyone fit a towbar unless they were going to tow something. What if your trailer comes adrift because you made a bracket yourself (or any other reason) and causes a collision. To me that's why you tell the insurance that you will tow a trailer now and again.
 

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