Starter Motor or something else

mistericeman

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Well thats a mine field trying to find another starter motor. Finally found one on EBay thats done less miles than we have. Think its from a breakers. So now can swap over and see if it eliminates the problem. As others said need to add another earth connection. Will also find out how solonoid works as it looks like it throws the cog out and connects. Not like the old ones with a spiral shaft. Anyway something to play with.
"The old" ones are inertia starters (rotation of motor shaft causes the starter dog to throw out)
And usually used a separate solenoid

The ones with the solenoid piggy backed on the starter are referred to as 'pre engaged'
The solenoid moves the starter dog into mesh with the flywheel ring gear before completing the electrical circuit to turn the starter motor.
 

QFour

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"The old" ones are inertia starters (rotation of motor shaft causes the starter dog to throw out)
And usually used a separate solenoid

The ones with the solenoid piggy backed on the starter are referred to as 'pre engaged'
The solenoid moves the starter dog into mesh with the flywheel ring gear before completing the electrical circuit to turn the starter motor.
Just goes to show how long it is since I crawled under a motor. Be interesting to see if it is the problem.
 

mistericeman

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Just goes to show how long it is since I crawled under a motor. Be interesting to see if it is the problem.
My money is still on poor earth ;-)

Other half had issue with a Peugeot partner van....
AA couldn't fathom it till I borrowed a lump lead off them and ran it from lifting lug on the engine direct to battery earth and it fired right up....
Replaced earth strap and cleaned connection points up.
 

molly 2

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Have you considered removing the starter and taking it to an auto electrician for checking and possible repair.
 

QFour

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Have you considered removing the starter and taking it to an auto electrician for checking and possible repair.
Yes considered that. The problem seems to be heat and it happens in the most inconvenient places. First time as we entered CAMC site blocking the entrance and exit all in one go. Luckily it was on a slight slope so we managed to push it out of the way. Second time on the road outside the house. Leave it to cool down and off it goes again. Thought about getting a can of freezer spray as a quick cool down. So 99% of the time its great and the problem has occurred twice in 6000 miles. We are planning Spain for next year so need it to be reliable. The fact Fiat didn't find anything was a problem so you have to start somewhere.
 

molly 2

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Twice in 6000 miles not an easy one to solve ,or to know if you have solved it , heat !! must have reached sticking temperature many times in 6000 miles ,
Good luck ,
 
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QFour

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Twice in 6000 miles not an easy one to solve ,or to know if you have solved it , heat !! must have reached sticking temperature many times in 6000 miles ,
Good luck ,
Thank you .. At least I know where the starter motor is now. I was considering putting a button between the 12v supply and the actuator terminal. I could put it somewhere accessible so if it happens again I can press the button.
 

trevskoda

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Thank you .. At least I know where the starter motor is now. I was considering putting a button between the 12v supply and the actuator terminal. I could put it somewhere accessible so if it happens again I can press the button.
I had no turn key start on my last car, just a big red button. (y)
 

trevskoda

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Must have been a shed or someone would have pinched it.😂😂
Any car can be nicked in seconds, I had the ign s lock still in place but just hate having to turn of and on again if I missed the first start or in traffic, a lot of new cars now run this system, anyway the car cost me £10 and ran for 15 years to 314.000 miles, beat that for value.
 

maingate

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Any car can be nicked in seconds, I had the ign s lock still in place but just hate having to turn of and on again if I missed the first start or in traffic, a lot of new cars now run this system, anyway the car cost me £10 and ran for 15 years to 314.000 miles, beat that for value.
I had an old mini in about 1973 that still had the push button start on the floor. We lived in a fairly isolated Farm Cottage a couple of miles from Aycliffe School (for very, very naughty boys) and one night a couple of them broke out and tried to nick the Mini (the keys were in the ignition). They could not figure out why it would not start. :ROFLMAO:

To spoil their night even further, the noise they made set the dogs off, so I came out and opened the gate to the dog run while I phoned 999. One got away but the dogs conned the other one into thinking they were vicious and he gladly gave himself up. He was in the Kitchen with one of the dogs watching him (he was obviously scared of dogs) when the Police arrived. The Sergeant observed him and took his time getting the facts while the kid sweated it out. :giggle:

The little beggars used to get out regularly but we never got troubled again. ;)
 

trevskoda

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When on a viz to Royal hospital in Belfast I always removed the rotor arm and put it in my pocket untill my return to the car.
 

Caz

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I've had two vehicles that have done similar, in both cases a tap with a hammer on the starter motor as you turned the key sorted it out. However, I guess technology has moved on in the last 30 years.............
 

trevskoda

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I've had two vehicles that have done similar, in both cases a tap with a hammer on the starter motor as you turned the key sorted it out. However, I guess technology has moved on in the last 30 years.............
Old type starters, keep up sweety pie. :)
 

RV2MAX

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Virtually all starter motors are "pre engaged" type now , eg the solenoid levers the dog into engagement with ring gear and at end of travel bridges the contact that make it spin up . Further development is the geared drive starter .
 

QFour

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Well what a busy day. Removed starter motor and fitted the one I bought from EBay. Fitted an extra earth cable and made sure of the connection. Connected up the electrics and it started first time.

Then I took the original starter solonoid off and had a look at it. It squeaks when you press it in. Having dealt with solonoids on cash drawers they should not squeak. So I took the whole starter motor in bits to my local Fiat Professional Dealer and had a chat with them. They don't take them to bits so didn't really know but they were surprised it squeaked. So the Service Manager said book it in and fit a new one. If Fiat say anything we can tell them it squeaks. Booked in for next week. Result and I have a spare :)

You have to start somewhere with these vague faults so starter motor seems the obvious place to start. Extra earth cable right next to the starter. Just got to wait and see.

The second hand starter I bought was from a black Fiat Ducato with 3700 miles on the clock and about 200 vehicles behind mine on the production line.
 

trevskoda

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Virtually all starter motors are "pre engaged" type now , eg the solenoid levers the dog into engagement with ring gear and at end of travel bridges the contact that make it spin up . Further development is the geared drive starter .
Skoda favorits and later models had a geared starter from 1992 onwards when VW built them.
 
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