Split Charge Relay - Battery to Battery chargers

[UFO]

I understand that newer engines, Euro 6 and Euro 5? have smart alternators which don’t work with the split-charge-relay method of charging leisure batteries. So does this mean that vans with these engines have battery to battery chargers?

I’ve looked at the manufacturers specs but they focus on things like colour coded cup holders, leather covered gear knobs, etc., not important things like size of batteries and how they are charged and if B2B what size it is (amps). Probably the smallest possible given that when a solar panel is fitted it tends to be 100W when the roof could accommodate more at very little additional cost!

 

[Okta]

I understand that newer engines, Euro 6 and Euro 5? have smart alternators which don’t work with the split-charge-relay method of charging leisure batteries. So does this mean that vans with these engines have battery to battery chargers?

I’ve looked at the manufacturers specs but they focus on things like colour coded cup holders, leather covered gear knobs, etc., not important things like size of batteries and how they are charged and if B2B what size it is (amps). Probably the smallest possible given that when a solar panel is fitted it tends to be 100W when the roof could accommodate more at very little additional cost!

Not all Euro 5 and 6 vehicles have smart alternators but many 6s do. Fiats motorhomes before September 2019 are unlikely to have a smart alternator. Split charge relays don’t work with smart alternators but that didn’t stop some manufacturers from continuing to fit them. Vans with these engines should have battery to battery chargers (sometimes called boosters) but it does not mean they have all got them.

 

[mistericeman]

B2B Will be Far better for your leisure batteries than a plain VSR/split charge regardless of smart alternator or not .

 

[yeoblade]

B2B with smart alternator 'trigger' wire.

 

[trevskoda]

Never any bother with a relay on my yogie, mind you the s panels keep them well charged.

 

[Nabsim]

I keep meaning to spend a bit of time on the American Sprinter site and get my head around their thinking. A lot are charging lifepo4 from a split charger as they can throw more amp in quicker but have something that limits demand initially.

 

[wildebus]

I keep meaning to spend a bit of time on the American Sprinter site and get my head around their thinking. A lot are charging lifepo4 from a split charger as they can throw more amp in quicker but have something that limits demand initially.

This device intriges me and I think would work well even without a Victrom Smart Battery - https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-management-systems/smart-bms-12-200.

I like the idea of limiting the initial demand. I have multiple B2Bs fitted, and they are configured with delays and different activation levels to avoid a sudden alternator 'whoosh'.

 

[UFO]

Looking at this thread https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/fiat-smart-alternator-problems.94984/ it appears that even with a smart alternator vans were / are still being built with split charge relay for charging the leisure batteries.

I know that B2B is much, much better than SCR.

So if I were to buy a van with a Euro 6, Euro 5?, engine -
- would it have a smart alternator?
- might if still have a SCR?
- do any van manufacturers fit a B2B from new?

 

[Nabsim]

This device intriges me and I think would work well even without a Victrom Smart Battery - https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-management-systems/smart-bms-12-200.

I like the idea of limiting the initial demand. I have multiple B2Bs fitted, and they are configured with delays and different activation levels to avoid a sudden alternator 'whoosh'.

I see this communicates with individual cells on a Victron battery. Do you know if you have to use Victron battery’s for this or if it works with ant battery with less functionality? Academic question though as I darent even look at the price lol

 

[wildebus]

I see this communicates with individual cells on a Victron battery. Do you know if you have to use Victron battery’s for this or if it works with ant battery with less functionality?

I don't know the answer of that myself. For the functionality, it is not a bad price I think. What I think is very clever is how you actually use different size fuses to set different maximum currents. If you don't want more than say 100A pulled from the Alternator, you put a 125A fuse in. If 50A is your max, you put a 60A fuse in.

Academic question though as I darent even look at the price lol

The Price of the batteries? you might be surprised! You know that discussion about the KS Energy 210Ah "Compact" Lithium Battery? I can buy a 50% BIGGER Victron Smart Lithium Battery, plus that BSM12-200 for around the same or even LESS than I can buy that KS Energy battery

 

[Okta]

Looking at this thread https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/fiat-smart-alternator-problems.94984/ it appears that even with a smart alternator vans were / are still being built with split charge relay for charging the leisure batteries.

I know that B2B is much, much better than SCR.

So if I were to buy a van with a Euro 6, Euro 5?, engine -
- would it have a smart alternator?
- might if still have a SCR?
- do any van manufacturers fit a B2B from new?

There are many pre September 2019 Euro 6 Fiats without smart alternators and some that slipped through after this. Most motorhome manufacturers now fit B2Bs as standard, they often call them boosters.

 

[Nabsim]

I don't know the answer of that myself. For the functionality, it is not a bad price I think. What I think is very clever is how you actually use different size fuses to set different maximum currents. If you don't want more than say 100A pulled from the Alternator, you put a 125A fuse in. If 50A is your max, you put a 60A fuse in.


The Price of the batteries? you might be surprised! You know that discussion about the KS Energy 210Ah "Compact" Lithium Battery? I can buy a 50% BIGGER Victron Smart Lithium Battery, plus that BSM12-200 for around the same or even LESS than I can buy that KS Energy battery

Just had a look at onboard energy and a single 100Ah battery is not much less than I paid when I bought my 2 x 100Ah battery years ago lol. We are in different markets

 

[Okta]

The Price of the batteries? you might be surprised! You know that discussion about the KS Energy 210Ah "Compact" Lithium Battery? I can buy a 50% BIGGER Victron Smart Lithium Battery, plus that BSM12-200 for around the same or even LESS than I can buy that KS Energy battery

Interesting. The KS Energy battery is the one the dealer suggested because the 210Ah one will fit under the seat. Do you know whether the Victron ones will fit under a Fiat Ducato seat and how many Ah I could cram in there?

 

[wildebus]

Interesting. The KS Energy battery is the one the dealer suggested because the 210Ah one will fit under the seat. Do you know whether the Victron ones will fit under a Fiat Ducato seat and how many Ah I could cram in there?

The Victron one is tall and they recomend not fitted on it side, so no use for underseat. My comment was also slightly tongue in cheek ref Victron as I can buy the batteries at a discount. I cannot do the same with KS Energy as have no trade agreement

If you have a specific need, then often a compromise is needed - the compromise on the KS Energy is the massive (IMO) price hike compared to many other batteries. If it were me, I would look for an alternative location to site the battery bank.

 

[scully]

Not quite sure what your question is. Here is how to test if you have a smart alternator, but doesn't tell you whether you have a split charge relay or a B2B.

How can I tell if my vehicle has a smart alternator

How can I tell if my vehicle has a smart alternator - article by 12 Volt Planet. Split charging; you might have seen the phrase Smart Alternator or Euro5/6 engine but what is a Smart Alternator and how can you tell if you have one?

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

SPR if you have one will look similar to.

Voltage Sensitive Split Charge Relays | 12 Volt Planet

Voltage sensitive split charge relays for isolating and charging auxiliary and lesiure batteries in low voltage automotive & marine applications.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

 

[Thistle]

@UFO
You would like to think newer coach built motor caravans would have a more modern charging solution rather than a crude inefficient relay that belongs in the last century but I think you would have to physically check the specific vehicle.

Despite all this Euro nonsense it’s still possible to order vehicles with conventional alternators, service vehicles ambulances etc can and often are specified by the converter to have a proper alternator. so I wouldn’t be surprised if motor caravan manglefacturers can do the same especially if doing so reduces build costs.

 

[Okta]

@UFO
You would like to think newer coach built motor caravans would have a more modern charging solution rather than a crude inefficient relay that belongs in the last century but I think you would have to physically check the specific vehicle.

Despite all this Euro nonsense it’s still possible to order vehicles with conventional alternators, service vehicles ambulances etc can and often are specified by the converter to have a proper alternator. so I wouldn’t be surprised if motor caravan manglefacturers can do the same especially if doing so reduces build costs.

I thought the new testing procedures brought in from September 2019 stopped motorhome converters ordering vehicles without smart alternators. I dare say that for specialist vehicles like ambulances there are be some exceptions. All the motorhome converters need to do is understand that technology has moved on and provide modern charging solutions. Most already do this and that some of them are still getting it wrong astonishes me. They have all known about this since 2015 otherwise they wouldn’t have been making special orders for base vehicles without smart alternators. The change in testing in 2019 was also well known in advance. As far as I am concerned any that got this wrong are a) incompetent and b) selling vehicles that are not fit for purpose.

 

[Timofei107]

I understand that newer engines, Euro 6 and Euro 5? have smart alternators which don’t work with the split-charge-relay method of charging leisure batteries. So does this mean that vans with these engines have battery to battery chargers?

I’ve looked at the manufacturers specs but they focus on things like colour coded cup holders, leather covered gear knobs, etc., not important things like size of batteries and how they are charged and if B2B what size it is (amps). Probably the smallest possible given that when a solar panel is fitted it tends to be 100W when the roof could accommodate more at very little additional cost!

B2B definitely the way to go. I have Euro 6 Crafter and had to do that. 110 leisure battery under passenger seat, Renology charger which connects to fuse box then the new battery, then I also have a 1000 watt inverter which runs off this and charges my Ecoflow Delta 2 max at 400 watts while driving. Comes with a remote switch fitted on the dash. Works great but took a while to perfect it.

 

[Timofei107]

B2B definitely the way to go. I have Euro 6 Crafter and had to do that. 110 leisure battery under passenger seat, Renology charger which connects to fuse box then the new battery, then I also have a 1000 watt inverter which runs off this and charges my Ecoflow Delta 2 max at 400 watts while driving. Comes with a remote switch fitted on the dash. Works great but took a while to perfect it.

Oh and you def want a battery monitor on the dash showing volts of the 2nd battery and the vehicle battery to keep an eye on it.

 

[Timofei107]

Oh and you def want a battery monitor on the dash showing volts of the 2nd battery and the vehicle battery to keep an eye on it.

The Renology inverter also cuts out automatically if volts on 2nd battery drop below a certain point.