Speed cams good for one thing

[Trevor]

Roadside cameras could be used to track down the owners of vehicles who throw litter out of their car windows.
Ministers are holding talks with town hall chiefs in a bid to close a loophole that has stopped officials imposing new in the spot fines of up to £80.

At present they can only take action against the individual litter bug not the registered keeper of the car which has proved difficult for local authorities.

But the new proposals would mean the registered owner of the vehicle has to pay a fine themselves or identify the litter bug.

Environment minister Joan Ruddock is said: "There is no excuse for littering, particularly from cars, as people can save rubbish inside their car and dispose of it at home.

"I am always horrified and angry when I see people throw something from a car."

A spokeswoman for the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said they were in talks "to find the best solution to this loophole

 

[Hazy-thoughts]

Whilst I like many others hate to see people throwing stuff from their vehicles, and am apalled at the state of our highways and byways, I do see this as the nanny state imposing even more harsh and draconian measures to sort out the problem.
I wonder how many of our political masters and their brown nosing lackeys went on the jolly to study this in action in some far flung land at our expense.

I believe the law is in place now that if someone is seen throwing rubbish or litter into the street they can and should be prosecuted. Trouble is like all the road traffic offences they are not acted upon because there are no Traffic police on the roads anymore. If anyone is caught the fine is punative, and certainly not enough to deter people.
I drive up to 50,000 miles every year and have done so for the last twenty years, using M25, M27,and M23 almost daily. Accidents aside, I could count on one hand the number of traffic cops I have seen in the last five years. There are plenty of the numpties in their pretend police cars, the ones that arent sharp enough for the real thing, who drive up and down, exuding an air of Power in their cheap mirror shades, when in reality they cant do much more than put a plastic cone behind you if you get a puncture.
If they didnt want our roadsides to be littered, then why not send out the drongos and neardowells on their community service to clear the roadsides, instead of teaching them how to smoke pot and fiddle the system.

I'm having a bad morning, can you tell

 

[Trevor]

Whilst I like many others hate to see people throwing stuff from their vehicles, and am apalled at the state of our highways and byways, I do see this as the nanny state imposing even more harsh and draconian measures to sort out the problem.
I wonder how many of our political masters and their brown nosing lackeys went on the jolly to study this in action in some far flung land at our expense.

I believe the law is in place now that if someone is seen throwing rubbish or litter into the street they can and should be prosecuted. Trouble is like all the road traffic offences they are not acted upon because there are no Traffic police on the roads anymore. If anyone is caught the fine is punative, and certainly not enough to deter people.
I drive up to 50,000 miles every year and have done so for the last twenty years, using M25, M27,and M23 almost daily. Accidents aside, I could count on one hand the number of traffic cops I have seen in the last five years. There are plenty of the numpties in their pretend police cars, the ones that arent sharp enough for the real thing, who drive up and down, exuding an air of Power in their cheap mirror shades, when in reality they cant do much more than put a plastic cone behind you if you get a puncture.
If they didnt want our roadsides to be littered, then why not send out the drongos and neardowells on their community service to clear the roadsides, instead of teaching them how to smoke pot and fiddle the system.

I'm having a bad morning, can you tell

Yes hope that long rant gets it of your chest.
Aye it big brother watching everyone now.

 

[Hazy-thoughts]

Felt better after that mate

It just infuriates me that the powers to be seem to spend all their time trying to come up with fiendish plans to extract more money from us all the time.
Local news showed the police and their speeding camera hidden in a horsebox at the side of the road.

How do these people sleep at night

 

[Trevor]

Felt better after that mate

the police and their speeding camera hidden in a horsebox at the side of the road.

There was one speed cam near me hidden in a campervan.

 

[David & Ann]

Driving from Cornwall towards Exeter on the A30, there is a speed camera in a cattle truck on a bridge over the Highway. It is stationary and been there since I returned to England in 2005. Nothing to worry about coming from the opposite direction.

 

[t&s]

around salisbury

yep i seen it last week there is a mobile camera on the back of a motorbike
they are some devious ba....ds only out to make money
the road safety excuse is wearing a bit thin.

also if you dont know there white diamonds and circles and squares painted on the roads these markers are spaced and they time you between these markers then stop you a few miles later and do for speeding mostly they seem to be on main roads in the midle of nowhere
also the police have posts at the side of the road some white some with fluro colours on the top they are used to vreify there speedo is correct i dont think they are used for speeders
i have been told by a retired cop if you get nicked by a mobile hand held when you get the ticket ask for the speed guns speed verifaction documents as it might be out of date as they cant afford to get them checked very often
i dont know how reliable this info is but its worth a try

 

[Don]

Talking of laws, regardless of the hike in fines and the threat of jail sentences, how many drivers do you still see with a phone stuck to there ears. That really winds me up.

Don

 

[Graham Hadfield]

Talking of laws, regardless of the hike in fines and the threat of jail sentences, how many drivers do you still see with a phone stuck to there ears. That really winds me up.

Don

I agree 100%

But what's all the complaining about speed cameras for? If people stay within the speed limit they won't get fined.

Speed limits (like any other legislative measure) are there for a reason. If anyone disagrees with particular speed limits they have every right to campaign to have them changed - but, just like breaking any other law, no reason to whinge if they are caught doing so.

Graham

 

[Deleted member 775]

I agree 100%

But what's all the complaining about speed cameras for? If people stay within the speed limit they won't get fined.

Speed limits (like any other legislative measure) are there for a reason. If anyone disagrees with particular speed limits they have every right to campaign to have them changed - but, just like breaking any other law, no reason to whinge if they are caught doing so.

Graham

i agree with you over speed limits , they are there for a reason and if you break them you have no reason to complain if you get caught, but cameras they only cover a few yards of the road so to me they are only there to raise revenue. and why are so many obscured with trees and other things there are other ways to deter speeders. the powers to be want to move one nearer a school where we live ok it will slow traffic down but why not put rumble strips on the road to slow traffic down or sleeping policemen as they call them,they have put some of the concrete type down near us and i defy any one to drive more than 20 mph over them also they should stop parents parking within 150 yds ether side of the school so the kids can see and be seen .but then again these solutions dont raise cash do they .

 

[Graham Hadfield]

i agree with you over speed limits , they are there for a reason and if you break them you have no reason to complain if you get caught, but cameras they only cover a few yards of the road so to me they are only there to raise revenue. and why are so many obscured with trees and other things there are other ways to deter speeders.

These points often arise and I don't suppose we'll resolve them here. However, it could be argued that if policing is partially funded from speeding fines that is more just than from general taxation which would also hit the pockets of people who do not break the law

the powers to be want to move one nearer a school where we live ok it will slow traffic down ................ also they should stop parents parking within 150 yds ether side of the school so the kids can see and be seen.

I agree. We have a secondary school entrance a few yards from us and suffer from the pram run every school day. We have pointed out to the council on a number of occasions that, sooner or later, there will be an incident causing damage, injuries or worse.

why not put rumble strips on the road to slow traffic down or sleeping policemen as they call them,they have put some of the concrete type down near us and i defy any one to drive more than 20 mph over them

It's a good idea on the face of it but the problem in a residential area is noise, which happens all day of course, not just at school opening and closing times.

Graham

 

[Deleted member 775]

These points often arise and I don't suppose we'll resolve them here. However, it could be argued that if policing is partially funded from speeding fines that is more just than from general taxation which would also hit the pockets of people who do not break the law


I agree. We have a secondary school entrance a few yards from us and suffer from the pram run every school day. We have pointed out to the council on a number of occasions that, sooner or later, there will be an incident causing damage, injuries or worse.


It's a good idea on the face of it but the problem in a residential area is noise, which happens all day of course, not just at school opening and closing times.

Graham

like you say we will not sort out all the probs on here it is a pity that local powers to be dont listen to us common folks thanks again from one graham to another.

 

[Graham Hadfield]

Graham,
I know speeding is speeding weather you break the restriction by 1 mph or 20 mph, but how many times have you been driving along a road and something crops up in your mind or conversation and the next thing you know is that you have just gone past a camera at 2 to 3 mph above the limit and then you have to wait a few weeks to see if you have been nicked!!!!!!
As you know, I drive for a living and I have been very lucky and I mean lucky as I have never been clicked by one of these camera's

Dunno how many times a concentration lapse has led me to exceed the limit - but so few that I reckon it would probably be less than I can count on the fingers of one hand. I've certainly never fretted about the possibility of a letter arriving and I've never received one.

But it is well known that a lot of these camera's are a money making exercise and are planted in the location for that sole purpose

Is it really well known or merely well rumoured? I've never seen any hard evidence of cameras being deliberately placed to make money - but I'm open to persuasion if there is any.

Graham,
Near to where I live, there is a long wide road and a few years ago they dropped the speed limit from 40mph to 30 mph and just for fun (or money making) they put in about 6 camera's. I telephoned the local council and asked why and the reason that was given was that the lighting quality did not meet the criteria for 40 mph!!!!!!!
Guess what???? a few months later the street lighting was renewed but surprise surprise, the speed limit stayed at 30 mph
Now in this location it is pure stupidity to have a 30 mph speed limit, what they should have done was keep it at 40 mph but have a zero tolerance in the location!!!!!! But that would not have made money for the council would it?????
Then there is a side road off that long wide road and the side road has a school and is a rat run, narrow with parked cars everywhere and the speed limit is still 30 mph!!!!!.
Now if the other road justifies 30 mph, this school road most certainly justifies a 20 mph speed limit!!!
Where is the reasoning behind these two speed limits I ask???????

The reasoning behind the 40 mph limit and its retention after the lighting upgrade should be easy enough to obtain - write to the council and ask for copies of the reports/minutes involved in the decision(s). If there is then evidence that the limit should be raised again you can get together with other residents to lobby the ward councillor for change.
As regards the "school road" - has anyone asked the council to reduce the limit to 20 mph? Again, a letter/e-mail asking the question should obtain the answer and local residents can then lobby as appropriate.

But that would not have made money for the council would it?????

As far as I'm aware, councils are responsible for imposing speed limits in their areas but do not receive any revenue from speed cameras. I thought the revenue went to the Treasury and that a proportion was given back to police forces (but not councils). Again, I'm open to correction if this is wrong.

Doing some Googling whilst composing thos post I came across This BBC Article with an interesting quote ascribed to Philip Gwynne from the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership: "Anybody who feels that the cameras are just there to raise revenue has the power in their own hands to stop it happening. You just don't speed. Then you can't get a speeding ticket and they can't raise revenue and we can all pack up and go home."

Graham

 

[Graham Hadfield]

Graham,
If you have only had a lapse of concentration moments for less than the count of fingers on one hand, than you must be a pretty remarkable person or as near to perfect as is possible lol

Yes - but I try not to let it go to my head

Anyway, If you think these speed camera's are not sited to raise money, then you carry on with your belief, but I suggest that you look at the sites more carefully and then you just may change your mind!!!

As I said, I've seen plenty of claims that cameras are deliberately placed to make money but I've never seen any hard evidence of that - but I'm open to persuasion if there is any.

Funny how a lot of mobile camera's are situated just around a bend so that when you see them, it is too late to brake!!

I'm not trying to be rude or personal but my immediate reaction is thank goodness it's only a speed camera and not a child crossing the road.

Graham,
As a professional driver, I try my best to keep to speed limits,I have to otherwise I would loose my licence, but it is damned hard to look for all the signs and while I am doing that, along with looking in my 6 wing mirrors and kerb mirrors and the new mirrors in front of the windscreen my attention is taken away from the road in front of me!

I wouldn't dispute the difficulty at all - but it is merely a factor of the job and many jobs have equivalent factors. For instance, in the last few years before I retired I looked after the implementation of regulatory legislation for a local authority. There are all sorts of hoops through which people must jump to make sure the job is done properly and legally.

Graham,
But with regard to writting this letter here or that letter there, I just couldn't be bothered as I do keep to the speed limits and it won't be me that gets a ticket!!
I just look in my mirror and laugh at all the cars queeing up behind me while I am getting paid to slow every body down

You certainly do the right thing - no problem to me being behind a driver sticking to the limit. Also, I would much rather have the vehicle behind me being driven sensibly than right up my bumper trying to make me go faster.

I do think it's a pity that people don't write letters more often though. If local authorities (or any other public body come to that) don't receive constructive representations about a particular matter they will default to thinking that nobody disagrees with it.

Graham

 

[t&s]

Talking of laws, regardless of the hike in fines and the threat of jail sentences, how many drivers do you still see with a phone stuck to there ears. That really winds me up.

Don

yes even the police do it
but there phones are hard wired may be they do not count ?

 

[Graham Hadfield]

I think I will let it drop as I am not sufficiently interested in proving anything to anybody
I know what I see and where I see them and my conclusions are firmly drawn
Without taking you out on the road with me, I can prove nothing, but if you were sitting beside me in my cab, you would see what I mean

We'll have to agree to differ for the moment

Graham, you seem to be the Champion of speed camera's, is there a reason?

No particular reason. I'm not particularly a champion of speed cameras but neither do I see anything wrong with them - more a case of being irritated by people who whinge having been caught by them.

We had a camera in this area which was set to catch people (in a 30mph limit zone) where they were doing at least 36 mph (20% above the limit). The location of the camera was well publicised but there seemed to be stories locally every week of people complaining about being caught.

Graham

 

[David & Ann]

Correct me if I am wrong. I read recently that there are approximately 4000 offficially fixed sited speed cameras sited around the UK. That is not counting the laser guns held by cops doing spot checks, hidden cameras in cattle trucks or what have you. I can understand both the "Graham's" arguements, but tend to sway slightly in favour of "*****" I don't only feel but I am positive the speed camera situation is excessive to an extreme.

 

[t&s]

graham

how many miles a year do you drive
me 30 k a year plus and its a constant distraction from my driving to watch out for every speed limit and every camera location
being a so called profesional driver the need for me to adhere to so many driving rules is overwhelming !
whilst constantly watching my speedo i could also miss a child wandering across the road
which is the most important
taking my eyes off the road to watch my speedo
or not knocking down a child ?
i believe ***** has got it right
cameras are needed but with reservations
i agree we have to be alert to speed but not to the distraction of our driving
cameras in the right place may be ok especialy if you live adjacent to the road in question as i presume you do
but there are many cameras in remote places
in my opinion just to raise money
i try to conform to the rules of the road but sometimes
common sense appears to be the safer option

 

[Trevor]

the powers to be want to move one nearer a school where we live

I saw a mobile speed camera on Friday morning on my way to get gas it was outside a school guess what, the school's are on holiday.

 

[Graham Hadfield]

how many miles a year do you drive

Not particularly relevant but probably 7.5 to 10K per year - depends which of us does the driving.

how many miles a year do you drive
me 30 k a year plus and its a constant distraction from my driving to watch out for every speed limit and every camera location

Well, that appears to me to be a telling comment. If you are aware of the speed limit and are keeping within it why do you need to bother about speed cameras?

i agree we have to be alert to speed but not to the distraction of our driving

Please see above comment

cameras in the right place may be ok especialy if you live adjacent to the road in question as i presume you do

Not particularly. I know where one or two cameras are locally but only because they are obvious or publicised in some other way. Locations of cameras are irrelevant if you stay within the limit.

but there are many cameras in remote places
in my opinion just to raise money
i try to conform to the rules of the road but sometimes
common sense appears to be the safer option

Again, opinion rather than fact. As regards common sense, the people who place speed cameras would say it is common sense to have them there.

I saw a mobile speed camera on Friday morning on my way to get gas it was outside a school guess what, the school's are on holiday.

Is the school the only reason for ensuring people stick to the limit or could there be others - e.g. children playing near the road as they are on holiday? I don't know, do you?

To repeat the point I initially made on this thread "Speed limits (like any other legislative measure) are there for a reason. If anyone disagrees with particular speed limits they have every right to campaign to have them changed - but, just like breaking any other law, no reason to whinge if they are caught doing so."

Graham