Spanish stealth tax

[mistericeman]

I have just found your post. #11
I was not replying to you.
If I had done so I would have done as I am doing now.
Trying to stay within the speed limit constantly is not easy.

It's not difficult IF you drive using sufficient attention....

Your speedo over reads so you've already got a safety margin.
And the driver should be aware of the speed limit appropriate for the area he is driving in as well as the road conditions at the time.

Only one thing causes speeding.... The driver.

 

[Fisherman]

E

It's not difficult IF you drive using sufficient attention....

Your speedo over reads so you've already got a safety margin.
And the driver should be aware of the speed limit appropriate for the area he is driving in as well as the road conditions at the time.

Only one thing causes speeding.... The driver.

Oh well, that’s it covered then.

 

[Drover]

Last time booked for speeding was in Australia.. years ago.
3kph over a speed limit for a weekday outside a school in school hours.
It was Saturday afternoon ...... barstewarts.
In a hired motorhome...$200 lighter on mo day paying the fine...

 

[Fisherman]

Last time booked for speeding was in Australia.. years ago.
3kph over a speed limit for a weekday outside a school in school hours.
It was Saturday afternoon ...... barstewarts.
In a hired motorhome...$200 lighter on mo day paying the fine...

I wonder if the police officer stuck to the speed limit on that day.
It would be interesting to find out through FOI how many police cars have been caught speeding whilst driving normally. I see them regularly exceeding the speed limits in such non emergency circumstances.

 

[jacquigem]

At that limit, cyclists could easily exceed this limit.

True. good job we don't have number plates . Local article said probably more dangerous as drivers paying too much attention to speedometer rather than surroundings

 

[GeoffL]

True. good job we don't have number plates . Local article said probably more dangerous as drivers paying too much attention to speedometer rather than surroundings

IMO there is a huge problem with dumbing down road safety to whether you're travelling faster than some arbitrary datum. It sends the wrong message to motorists that all they need do to be safe and good drivers is obey the limit and a few other absolutes (such as not using a handheld mobile phone). However, all that is IMO a sticking plaster solution that actually makes things worse. The principle of C.O.A.S.T.** seems to have gone out of the window.

The penchant for authorities to reduce the speed limit at the slightest excuse adds to the mix a belief in many motorists that a speed limit is a warranty by the authorities that it is safe to travel at that speed. Backing up speed limits with draconian enforcement shifts motorist attention from primary safety (the picture outside the window) to the instrument panel. The raft of ultra-specific absolutes (like mobile phone use) has massively diluted the general principle that one needs to exercise due care and attention at all times -- so much so that anything seems to go provided it isn't the subject of an absolute prohibition.

**Concentration; Observation; Anticipation; Space and Time

 

[Fisherman]

e

IMO there is a huge problem with dumbing down road safety to whether you're travelling faster than some arbitrary datum. It sends the wrong message to motorists that all they need do to be safe and good drivers is obey the limit and a few other absolutes (such as not using a handheld mobile phone). However, all that is IMO a sticking plaster solution that actually makes things worse. The principle of C.O.A.S.T.** seems to have gone out of the window.

The penchant for authorities to reduce the speed limit at the slightest excuse adds to the mix a belief in many motorists that a speed limit is a warranty by the authorities that it is safe to travel at that speed. Backing up speed limits with draconian enforcement shifts motorist attention from primary safety (the picture outside the window) to the instrument panel. The raft of ultra-specific absolutes (like mobile phone use) has massively diluted the general principle that one needs to exercise due care and attention at all times -- so much so that anything seems to go provided it isn't the subject of an absolute prohibition.

**Concentration; Observation; Anticipation; Space and Time

Ye nailed if Geoff. You deserve a nice glass of your favourite drink after that post.

Slange

 

[Snapster]

I think you have to understand that a speed limit is just that. It’s not a target. The excuse that concentrating on your Speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish. A good driver will have a pretty good awareness of their speed and if it is appropriate, within the limit, if they are concentrating on their driving. You just need an occasional glance at the speedo to check you are driving safely, whatever your speed.
As has been mentioned earlier speed is not a major cause of accidents, but when speed is involved, accident can quickly become major incidents.
I spent 12 years as a traffic officer. I remember when speed cameras were first introduced. I have never thought they are a good deterrent, they just make you reduce your speed as you go through them, not at all a replacement for regular police patrols, just cheaper and are generally seen as income generators.
With a driving history of around 50 years, I have had one speeding ticket. In 1975.
However, I have given out hundreds, and heard all the excuses as to why they thought they were safe drivers and or why speed limits shouldn’t really be enforced as they are good drivers and the roads were empty……..
I don’t agree with or like the idea of private companies driving around with speed detection equipment either, something which is gaining official popularity in France.

 

[st3v3]

, and heard all the excuses as to why they thought they were safe drivers

How about this one - ahead of going into a village the speed limit will change from NSL to 30, quite rightly.

If you were going in the opposite direction it would be perfectly safe to accelerate as soon as you clear the village. Agreed?

However, because we don't have different limits in different directions, you'd be breaking the law if you increase speed before the sign says so, even though it's actually safe.

So why the fcuk is the camera van parked up to catch this?

Was a regular camera site when we used to go from castle combe back to the motorway. He'd park just around a bend too, the swine.

 

[trevskoda]

Big problem these days there is far too much street furniture, speed markers are sometimes very small and may change every 100 yards or so which is confusing at times, best to have the road painted with limits and keep them the same to you are out of the zone, different colours could be used and be fluorescent at night where you can best see them, right where you normally look.
And over here if you drove at the limit a big truck would be hanging on your tailgate which drives me bonkers.

 

[Fisherman]

I think you have to understand that a speed limit is just that. It’s not a target. The excuse that concentrating on your Speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish. A good driver will have a pretty good awareness of their speed and if it is appropriate, within the limit, if they are concentrating on their driving. You just need an occasional glance at the speedo to check you are driving safely, whatever your speed.
As has been mentioned earlier speed is not a major cause of accidents, but when speed is involved, accident can quickly become major incidents.
I spent 12 years as a traffic officer. I remember when speed cameras were first introduced. I have never thought they are a good deterrent, they just make you reduce your speed as you go through them, not at all a replacement for regular police patrols, just cheaper and are generally seen as income generators.
With a driving history of around 50 years, I have had one speeding ticket. In 1975.
However, I have given out hundreds, and heard all the excuses as to why they thought they were safe drivers and or why speed limits shouldn’t really be enforced as they are good drivers and the roads were empty……..
I don’t agree with or like the idea of private companies driving around with speed detection equipment either, something which is gaining official popularity in France.

I attended RTAs for 31 years.
I saw horrors most thankfully on here will never have to witness.
And it’s really good to read your comments about speed, and it’s low place in the cause of road accidents. Obviously we have to have speed limits and someone has to set them, and you had to enforce them. But my gripe is the public perception that speed is a manor factor, you and I both know that is not the case. The punishments for being slightly over the limit are far to severe. Speed limits don’t take into account driving conditions, or the fact that vehicles are much safer than when most of these limits were set. Also instead of fining people and endorsing their licence, first time offenders should always be offered driver awareness courses.
I have witnessed accidents caused by, drink and drugs, lack of concentration, falling asleep, heart attacks, mechanical failure, weather conditions, lack of experience, etc. Rarely was speeding a factor. Yes obviously speed is a major factor in what happens during an accident, but rarely the cause. And it’s these causes that deserve to be given greater precedence in maintaining road safety.

We used to hate going to RTAs they demanded a more clinical and personal approach than a fire. There was a lack of dynamism and adrenaline, replaced by at times a feeling of almost helplessness towards those who were so clearly suffering. If I thought that speeding was a major factor in RTAs I would support the most draconian of punishments, but I don’t. I feel that the emphasis on speeding is wrong and counterproductive.

 

[Deleted member 51254]

The beauty of cruise control in certain areas.

Cruise control won't work at the slow speeds concerned, 12.4mph in some cases in Spanish towns

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Cruise control won't work at the slow speeds concerned, 12.4mph in some cases in Spanish towns

Unfortunately I don't know what cruise control is, never driven a modern enough vehicle

I find that a clutch, the right gear and a foot on the accelerator/brake seem to work fine.
It certainly caters for 'crawl' speeds'.

But the old fashioned method isn't foolproof either; requires the brain and limbs of the driver to be functioning and alert

 

[myvanwy]

Most of the talk seems to be about vehicles hitting other vehicles. Modern cars are designed to protect the delicate humans inside. The speed issue comes into play when the vehicles are in close proximity to the mere mortals on foot. The difference between life and death is measured in mph so fully understand the lower limits within towns villages etc. What I dont get is the need for all the technology (and stealth) to boost coffers, on roads where it is very rare to see another human on foot.
Im getting very close to a rant here. Another cuppa needed.

 

[alcam]

I think you have to understand that a speed limit is just that. It’s not a target. The excuse that concentrating on your Speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish. A good driver will have a pretty good awareness of their speed and if it is appropriate, within the limit, if they are concentrating on their driving. You just need an occasional glance at the speedo to check you are driving safely, whatever your speed.
As has been mentioned earlier speed is not a major cause of accidents, but when speed is involved, accident can quickly become major incidents.
I spent 12 years as a traffic officer. I remember when speed cameras were first introduced. I have never thought they are a good deterrent, they just make you reduce your speed as you go through them, not at all a replacement for regular police patrols, just cheaper and are generally seen as income generators.
With a driving history of around 50 years, I have had one speeding ticket. In 1975.
However, I have given out hundreds, and heard all the excuses as to why they thought they were safe drivers and or why speed limits shouldn’t really be enforced as they are good drivers and the roads were empty……..
I don’t agree with or like the idea of private companies driving around with speed detection equipment either, something which is gaining official popularity in France.

Curious , if all involved had been obeying the speed limit would these accidents still have happened ?
From the second part of your sentence maybe an academic question

 

[GeoffL]

I think you have to understand that a speed limit is just that. It’s not a target. The excuse that concentrating on your Speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish. A good driver will have a pretty good awareness of their speed and if it is appropriate, within the limit, if they are concentrating on their driving. You just need an occasional glance at the speedo to check you are driving safely, whatever your speed.
As has been mentioned earlier speed is not a major cause of accidents, but when speed is involved, accident can quickly become major incidents.
I spent 12 years as a traffic officer. I remember when speed cameras were first introduced. I have never thought they are a good deterrent, they just make you reduce your speed as you go through them, not at all a replacement for regular police patrols, just cheaper and are generally seen as income generators.
With a driving history of around 50 years, I have had one speeding ticket. In 1975.
However, I have given out hundreds, and heard all the excuses as to why they thought they were safe drivers and or why speed limits shouldn’t really be enforced as they are good drivers and the roads were empty……..
I don’t agree with or like the idea of private companies driving around with speed detection equipment either, something which is gaining official popularity in France.

(My bold)
You don't need to glance at your speedo to check you are driving safely -- the S and T of C.O.A.S.T. does that for you. The only reason you need to glance at your speedo is to verify that you are driving lawfully. Of course, one should always drive within the speed limit and wilfully driving in excess of the limit is inexcusable. However, speed is very much a secondary factor to road safety and there is no mention of 'speed' in C.O.A.S.T.

In three incidents I've seen over the last few years at a 'black spot' near where I live, drivers who could have easily avoided their collisions insisted they could not possibly be to blame because they weren't speeding! It never occurred to at least one of the drivers that she could, and should have anticipated and mitigated the 'at fault' party's actions.

FWIW, I've never had a speeding ticket (or one for any other moving traffic offence) in over four decades of driving. With regard to your comment that "concentrating on your speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish" I have to disagree. There is plenty of evidence to say that the mere presence of a speed camera causes drivers to divert their attention from the road to their speedometer (e.g. 81% of drivers admitted doing so in a 2010 study by LV Insurance). I know that I've been guilty of this, sometimes to an alarming degree. Worse, in the LV study, a significant number of drivers admitted to behaving erratically (e.g. suddenly braking) on seeing a speed camera.

We have a finite 'working capacity' and (potentially fatal) mistakes can happen when workload exceeds that requirement. An example is at Notter Bridge in Cornwall (GPS 50.425, -4.274) where there is a steep descent on the westbound side with a junction to the right and a speed camera 200 yards further on. This was an accident blackspot where fast-moving vehicles often ploughed into the rear of stationary vehicles waiting to turn right. So 'they' reduced the speed limit from 60 to 50 mph and installed the speed camera -- and the accident rate went through the roof! Motorists were taking their eyes off the road to ensure they weren't doing more than 50 mph by the time they reached the bottom of the hill and so were less likely to spot waiting vehicles. The accident rate dropped almost to zero when 'they' changed the road layout to provide a dedicated right-turn lane, which is probably what should have been done initially.

 

[GeoffL]

Most of the talk seems to be about vehicles hitting other vehicles. Modern cars are designed to protect the delicate humans inside. The speed issue comes into play when the vehicles are in close proximity to the mere mortals on foot. The difference between life and death is measured in mph so fully understand the lower limits within towns villages etc. What I dont get is the need for all the technology (and stealth) to boost coffers, on roads where it is very rare to see another human on foot.
Im getting very close to a rant here. Another cuppa needed.

It is far better IMO not to collide with pedestrians than to collide with them more slowly. Speed is very much a secondary safety factor and should automatically be appropriate if you get the primary factors right. Basically, if you can't properly observe or haven't got enough time to anticipate and react within the space available, you're going too fast -- even if that's slower than the posted limit!

 

[st3v3]

The one that I'm still surprised at is people on country lanes. They drive at a speed they can stop in the distance they can see. Not realising the car coming the other way around the bend is going to take up half that space!

 

[Fazerloz]

Cruise control won't work at the slow speeds concerned, 12.4mph in some cases in Spanish towns

Hence I said "Certain areas".

 

[Fazerloz]

Cruise control can even take you over the limit going downhill.

Cruise control does not take you over the limit going downhill, the hill does that. Cruise backs off as much as it can then gravity takes over, cruise doesn't apply the brakes, that's the drivers job.