SORNing your vehicle whilst on a campsite.

[trevskoda]

But, as stated above, a private campsite to which the public have access is technically subject to the same rules as if you are parked on the road. In practice, I shouldn't think anyone has been prosecuted but it is the rule and by breaking it you MAY find that your insurance is invalidated. So anybody considering SORNing on a campsite should be aware that there might be dangers.

sorry but you are wrong,a road consitutes a tarmaced road with street lighting and or a footwalk which has been singed over to the control of the doe roads division,other wise its privat even if used by post or milk man.you do not require either tax or ins but i would keep insured if of any value,and your insurance has no bearing on this as there insuring for loss so no tax required.however if you move it whilsed on privat land and hit someone you will or could be taken to court on a privat claim,ie not by crown prosacution and you could or may have to fund this yourself as your ins is only relavent to fire and theft as you are not on a public hidhway and not coverd for third party dameges.
i know this as at 19 years old police tried taking me to court for riding a motor bike with no ins tax and no helmet on a garage forcourt part of which the public had no excess to behind our workshop and away from the fuel pumps,the case was turfed out on these grounds , road tax is only required t drive on a highway where doe have taken control and does not efect your ins.

 

[John H]

Which is why I stopped taking my car over there but France has only just joined Spain in stopping motorhomers who are using A frames, they are not fining or even making them uncouple yet, my feelings are if they don't want me to do it then as a visitor to their Country I should not argue and obey their rules, there might be arguments but it is still legal in the UK until somebody proves it otherwise

True but the uncertainty that is expressed in the Government guidance is the excuse that foreign police need to stop tourists - and we have met several who have been forced to uncouple (though none yet who have been fined).

 

[John H]

sorry but you are wrong,a road consitutes a tarmaced road with street lighting and or a footwalk which has been singed over to the control of the doe roads division,other wise its privat even if used by post or milk man.you do not require either tax or ins but i would keep insured if of any value,and your insurance has no bearing on this as there insuring for loss so no tax required.however if you move it whilsed on privat land and hit someone you will or could be taken to court on a privat claim,ie not by crown prosacution and you could or may have to fund this yourself as your ins is only relavent to fire and theft as you are not on a public hidhway and not coverd for third party dameges.
i know this as at 19 years old police tried taking me to court for riding a motor bike with no ins tax and no helmet on a garage forcourt part of which the public had no excess to behind our workshop and away from the fuel pumps,the case was turfed out on these grounds , road tax is only required t drive on a highway where doe have taken control and does not efect your ins.

I repeat What is a 'road'? « . It may not be your definition of a road, you may think it is illogical but it IS the legal definition and it includes campsites.

You are correct about the procedure if an accident happens on private land but a Caravan Site is legally a place to which the public have access and the courts (not me!) have determined that you can be prosecuted for Road Traffic Offences on a campsite. Your example of the garage does not contradict this - you were on land to which the public had no right of access. It is interesting to discover from Fulltimer's post that the Caravan Club (who are absolute sticklers for rules!) have now included this in their terms and conditions.

 

[RichardHelen262]

....... Get a caravan, no sorn to worry about then

But then could I sorn the car on the days I don't go out in it ?

 

[El Veterano]

I repeat What is a 'road'? « . It may not be your definition of a road, you may think it is illogical but it IS the legal definition and it includes campsites.

You are correct about the procedure if an accident happens on private land but a Caravan Site is legally a place to which the public have access and the courts (not me!) have determined that you can be prosecuted for Road Traffic Offences on a campsite. Your example of the garage does not contradict this - you were on land to which the public had no right of access. It is interesting to discover from Fulltimer's post that the Caravan Club (who are absolute sticklers for rules!) have now included this in their terms and conditions.

Could I refer you once more to the Clark v. Kato case and also the Cutter v. Eagle Star case. It is quite clear to me that the definition of anything, road or otherwise, rests entirely on how good your lawyer is. If you wish to keep going round and round in circles until someone agrees with you on this thread, then go for it.
As for me I have an urgent appointment to apply woodworm killer to my old school desk, before it gets completely out of hand, and then I shall be wiring up my new tow hitch. Both a far more constructive use of my day in my opinion.

 

[John H]

Could I refer you once more to the Clark v. Kato case and also the Cutter v. Eagle Star case. It is quite clear to me that the definition of anything, road or otherwise, rests entirely on how good your lawyer is. If you wish to keep going round and round in circles until someone agrees with you on this thread, then go for it.
As for me I have an urgent appointment to apply woodworm killer to my old school desk, before it gets completely out of hand, and then I shall be wiring up my new tow hitch. Both a far more constructive use of my day in my opinion.

No circles - very much a straight line! I have already commented on those cases. Both of them refer to car parks; neither of them have anything to do with campsites.

And with the greatest of respect, it matters not a jot what your opinion (or mine) is - or how many people agree with you or with me. The legal situation is clearly laid out in the link I have now posted twice. It never ceases to amaze me that many people think they know the law better than the lawyers - but if those people didn't exist, maybe I couldn't afford to be sitting here in the Spanish sun now!

 

[shortcircuit]

Glad you still retain "I am so superior attitude". With all your experiences I tend to think " Jack of all trades, master of none". I know who my money is on for accurate advice.

 

[trevskoda]

I repeat What is a 'road'? « . It may not be your definition of a road, you may think it is illogical but it IS the legal definition and it includes campsites.

You are correct about the procedure if an accident happens on private land but a Caravan Site is legally a place to which the public have access and the courts (not me!) have determined that you can be prosecuted for Road Traffic Offences on a campsite. Your example of the garage does not contradict this - you were on land to which the public had no right of access. It is interesting to discover from Fulltimer's post that the Caravan Club (who are absolute sticklers for rules!) have now included this in their terms and conditions.

hi john i see where you are comming from ,garage forecourts shoping car parks all have access for people and are covered by road traffic act but a privat lane or also a camp site may not as camp sites are not open to public if they have a gated entrance,they are only for the patrons and staff and are considered privat ,but if there is no gate or sine stating privat road campsite etc then it would be open to the scrutany of the law. same thing with your house if you have gates and someone moves in and camps there breaking and entering ,but if the gates are open or there are no gates and travelers or any one moves in then they are ok to do so in which you will have a hell of a job through courts < privat case > geting them out ,as for campsites if gates closed then its privat no tax required,but for a month or so is it realy worth not taxing van personely i would not bother .:rolleyes2::drive:

 

[John H]

Well, I'll give this to you, David, you are not afraid to keep coming back and digging even deeper holes. Perhaps you would be good enough to point out precisely where I have expressed an opinion and called it fact. I have expressed very little opinion on this thread. I have merely pointed out what the law says. Nobody on this site knows whether I approve of that law or not - because I have not expressed an opinion. We do, however, know that if people question your opinion s you go all paranoid. Still sunny and warm here by the way - off for tapas shortly

 

[John H]

hi john i see where you are comming from ,garage forecourts shoping car parks all have access for people and are covered by road traffic act but a privat lane or also a camp site may not as camp sites are not open to public if they have a gated entrance,they are only for the patrons and staff and are considered privat ,but if there is no gate or sine stating privat road campsite etc then it would be open to the scrutany of the law. same thing with your house if you have gates and someone moves in and camps there breaking and entering ,but if the gates are open or there are no gates and travelers or any one moves in then they are ok to do so in which you will have a hell of a job through courts < privat case > geting them out ,as for campsites if gates closed then its privat no tax required,but for a month or so is it realy worth not taxing van personely i would not bother .:rolleyes2::drive:

I can see the logic of what you say but if you read the link I have now posted twice you will see that is not how the law views it.

 

[Tezza33]

as I mentioned a post back check with your insurance, mine states that the vehicle must have valid RFL for the duration of the insurance term.

are you sure about the taxing monthly, I thought you could only tax for either six or twelve months as normal but with various methods of paying including monthly DD, with a lot of site including both of the main clubs campsites you cannot stay for more than 28 consecutive days anyway.

Which Insurance Company are you with?, I would like to know which ones stipulate you have to have valid RFL so that I can avoid them.

You can only tax for six or twelve months but if you are paying by monthly DD you can sorn your vehicle at any time and the DD is then cancelled, it would then have to be set up again so in theory you can tax it for one month, nothing new there because you could do that before but you had to wait for a refund

 

[John H]

Now, I will happily admit that I know nothing about mental health problems but, as a layperson, your reaction in post 130 to people agreeing with me - "presumably they prefer to see you attack me than to say anything useful themselves" - seems like paranoia to me. At the very least, it is, as others have pointed out, aggressive and arrogant. Enjoy your rest.

 

[John H]

David, you are a very knowledgeable person on some matters. On those matters, I sometimes agree with you and sometimes disagree but at all times I respect that you know your facts and that your views need to be taken seriously. Unfortunately, there are many matters on which you have no or very little knowledge, yet you insist on behaving as if you do. Why is that? Do you suffer from an inferiority complex or is it more serious than that?

Let me put an entirely hypothetical situation. You might post a statement that all dogs are brown. Someone else may then post a link from the Kennel Club that shows that beyond doubt some dogs are not brown. 99.9% of us in that situation would laugh it off and say - oops, I made a mistake, didn't I? You, however, seem to believe that the ONLY defence is attack and are more likely to come back by accusing the second poster of being an arrogant know-all who thinks his opinion is better than yours. That, in a nutshell, is how you have behaved on this thread. If any of my friends or family behaved in that way I would be seriously worried for their health and find a way to advise them to have a chat with their doctor about the way they react to others.

 

[El Veterano]

I'm bored now - going on a killing spree, woodworm, be afraid.........

 

[Polar Bear]

I'm bored too - to put this thread to bed - Your SORNed vehicle cannot be outside of the UK so all this chat is irrelevant!

Taken from

https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification

Your SORN is valid until your vehicle is taxed, sold, scrapped or permanently exported.

Your vehicle must be in and remain in Great Britain for your SORN to be valid.

SORN and vehicle tax

You’ll get an automatic refund of your vehicle tax for any full remaining months when you make a SORN. It will be sent to the address on the DVLA record.

You won’t get a refund of the extra fee you paid if you bought vehicle tax that lasts for 6 months.

You’ll need to buy vehicle tax if you want to use the vehicle again on the road. This expires your SORN.

 

[John H]

Well done indeed, Polar Bear - I have to admit that I hadn't spotted the aspect of the SORN regulations that refers to keeping the vehicle in the UK - but don't SORN it whilst on a UK campsite! :goodluck:

 

[trevskoda]

is it over as i have just ordered a pair of boxing gloves of ebay,paddy to late as always.:lol-053::wave:

 

[John H]

is it over as i have just ordered a pair of boxing gloves of ebay,paddy to late as always.:lol-053::wave:

Hope so! But on a serious note, I hope the OP has discovered what he needs to know. All the nonsense from a certain quarter aside, I have certainly learned a couple of new things - one from Fulltimer that the CC does not allow SORNing on its sites and one from Polar Bear about SORNed vehicles having to stay in the UK. In summary, although the courts have decided you can be prosecuted for a RTA offence on a campsite, in practice this is unlikely to happen - especially if your vehicle is stationary on a pitch for a long period. Far more significant is the question of insurance and that is a matter that people need to take up with their own Insurers because it is clear that some do allow SORNing and others don't. But a final word of warning: even if your Insurance Company says it is ok, you need to read the t&cs of the campsite carefully because it is quite possible that the CC is not the only organisation that won't accept it. Think that covers everything - its raining here, so it is definitely not a bbq day today! :cheers:

 

[trevskoda]

well mine is sorned on drive wating for me to do the last bits of rebuild,and its wet and windy here and thats just me.:lol-049::wave:

 

[Tezza33]

I have just tried to sorn my dog but they said he is black not brown, any advice?