maingate
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I have tried talking to Supermarket chains David. There is a terrific Asda just off the A1. The reply I got from Asda sounded promising but nothing ever came of it because a private parking company is making money by trying to fine anyone who stays more than a couple of hours in the car park.
We may not talk about it but a number of us are actively engaged in trying to get amenities for motorhomes. It is a long slow process but more productive than just arguing amongst ourselves.
I mentioned in another thread about the 'Portas Plan'. This is a scheme put forward by Mary Portas to revive the 'High St.' in towns and cities. If you google it, you will see that a number of towns are interested. What we need is an input in these local discussions to try and get some sort of facility, however basic. A member on outandaboutlive is currently involving himself in the town of Biggar.
We may not talk about it but a number of us are actively engaged in trying to get amenities for motorhomes. It is a long slow process but more productive than just arguing amongst ourselves.
I mentioned in another thread about the 'Portas Plan'. This is a scheme put forward by Mary Portas to revive the 'High St.' in towns and cities. If you google it, you will see that a number of towns are interested. What we need is an input in these local discussions to try and get some sort of facility, however basic. A member on outandaboutlive is currently involving himself in the town of Biggar.
John H
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John H
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Not so. If they simply allowed 24 hour parking they would not need any kind of licence. Remember there is no law against sleeping in vehicles.
maureenandtom
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As always, John, bit short on stats. Big enough on assertions but, truly you know, if you make the assertion you should do the counting too.
But, ok, I'll count up for you. Not all of them. Just the places where I want to go. Now this is what I did. I went to the website you don't have the stats for and I selected a department. I picked one where I would want to go. Department 06. Then I selected the icon I thought would do for me. The icon which is a camping car half day and half night expecting that I would then have overnight stopping places, yes?
I got this:
Came up with 9 Aires.
Look them up - I did - two of them are free; seven are chargeable.
On this basis, where I want to go 78% of Aires are chargeable.
Next time, John, do the stats yourself.
maureenandtom
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Doubt it. But John made the assertion.
I did my stats based on what was in my original post; that is, that increasingly Aires are being charged for in touristy, attractive areas.
This bears it out.
maureenandtom
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Don't patronise me.
Yes, I do know how big France is. Yes, I know the sample is ludicrously small.
No, I'm not about to count all 2 or 3 thousand Aires. What I can do is what I've done. Pick an area I want to go to - look at my original post for what I want; sea, sand, sun - and then do a quick count.
And . . . I can see the changes from year to year.
And then again Lotty has just come back from France. No idea where she got to but she did tell us that she stayed at 12 Aires with 5 chargeable. That's 42% chargeable and that's without the filter of my preferences for sun, sea, sand.
Edit: On reflection, the sample isn't ludicrously small.
On the basis on which I made the selection, my requirement for overnight stops in Dept 06, it is 100% of those available - or at least of those available in John's quoted website.
Yes, I do know how big France is. Yes, I know the sample is ludicrously small.
No, I'm not about to count all 2 or 3 thousand Aires. What I can do is what I've done. Pick an area I want to go to - look at my original post for what I want; sea, sand, sun - and then do a quick count.
And . . . I can see the changes from year to year.
And then again Lotty has just come back from France. No idea where she got to but she did tell us that she stayed at 12 Aires with 5 chargeable. That's 42% chargeable and that's without the filter of my preferences for sun, sea, sand.
Edit: On reflection, the sample isn't ludicrously small.
On the basis on which I made the selection, my requirement for overnight stops in Dept 06, it is 100% of those available - or at least of those available in John's quoted website.
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vwalan
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i always look at the aires book to see where the aire is free and go there . hopefully you can still find some free ones near the sea . mind there are so many nice places to stay even where there are no aires . i only use aires if i cant find somewhere better. usually can.
but lets not fall out .i,m sure nobody wants to.
i like this as a thought .you save up a thousand pounds .you are off on holiday. just before you go you win another thousand pounds on the lottery .
question .how much have i got to spend?
answer.... nothing unless i have to .i may now have 2000 pounds but i dont have to spend it .
but lets not fall out .i,m sure nobody wants to.
i like this as a thought .you save up a thousand pounds .you are off on holiday. just before you go you win another thousand pounds on the lottery .
question .how much have i got to spend?
answer.... nothing unless i have to .i may now have 2000 pounds but i dont have to spend it .
maureenandtom
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Hang on - that's my 2000 pounds!!
Tbear
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Going back to the original post
I think Northerner was painting a bit of a bias picture;-
"If you were a councillor and you had a choice of your car parks being filled with families in cars who will eat in restaurants, visit the attractions and spend a lot of money, or motorhomers who arrive with all their own facilities, eat and sleep in the ‘vans, which would you choose, remembering that, as a councillor, your loyalties must be to those who elected you?"
I am sure many day trippers take a cold box of food and spend the day on the beach, spending very little in the town. I am just as sure there are motorhomers in the town spending money. I really don,t think it matters whether you arrive on a bus or in a top of the range RV, its numbers they need and if you look along the coast you used to see a lot of motorhomes. I am not pretending that what we spend runs into hundreds of millions of pounds but I bet its a sum that most councils would be envious of.
I agree that many supermarkets have lots of space overnight and of course you would then go there for papers and breakfast. I have written to a couple and asked about the possibility of parking overnight and if they do not have a private security company looking after them then they have said that it was up to the manager on the day. However I would much rather give my dosh to l shops if possible
Richard
I think Northerner was painting a bit of a bias picture;-
"If you were a councillor and you had a choice of your car parks being filled with families in cars who will eat in restaurants, visit the attractions and spend a lot of money, or motorhomers who arrive with all their own facilities, eat and sleep in the ‘vans, which would you choose, remembering that, as a councillor, your loyalties must be to those who elected you?"
I am sure many day trippers take a cold box of food and spend the day on the beach, spending very little in the town. I am just as sure there are motorhomers in the town spending money. I really don,t think it matters whether you arrive on a bus or in a top of the range RV, its numbers they need and if you look along the coast you used to see a lot of motorhomes. I am not pretending that what we spend runs into hundreds of millions of pounds but I bet its a sum that most councils would be envious of.
I agree that many supermarkets have lots of space overnight and of course you would then go there for papers and breakfast. I have written to a couple and asked about the possibility of parking overnight and if they do not have a private security company looking after them then they have said that it was up to the manager on the day. However I would much rather give my dosh to l shops if possible
Richard
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sean rua
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Some interesting and diverse points as ever! Thanks to all who contibuted.
Whilst we are attempting to be broad-minded and trying to look at things from the viewpoint of others, I suppose it should be mentioned that places are inhabited by many, many, more folk than just
councillors, shopkeepers, publicans and hoteliers ( be they fat, thin, or otherwise).
The vast majority of the population of most towns are actually users of the services provided by the afore-mentioned categories.
Though the standard claim is often made that employment is provided by the enterprise of these folk, my own view is that the net impact of tourism - especially motorised tourists - is negative overall,
when judged from the standpoint of the majority of residents.
No, I have no break-down of the figures; don't know the personal details of each and every resident ; blah-di-blah- di yakkety-yak, etc. - but, for instance, from my own personal experience,
I'd hazzard a guess that
the folk living in Wembley and the folk living near Stratford, London ( if there any left) get more aggravation than benefit
from major local events.
I very much doubt that they relish the prospect of full car-parks, teeming shops and pubs, jammed up streets, etc etc.
So, that's just the other side of the coin. I don't expect anybody to take a blind bit of notice, of course, and I wish you all well in your travels, wherever you may go.
I'm heading for Aberystwyth today myself, and will spend at least a hundred times more money in the pubs and betting shops than I will in any place else.
Can't see me getting a Blue Peter badge for that, but not to worry.
Last time I went I got arrested, but quickly released, so Goodness what will happen today! :angel::have fun::danger::heart::sleep-027:
Btw, Maureen is quite right. Even King Canute could see which way the tide is going. Since the Sixties the game has been over for the Travelling man.
Having bigger and better ice-cream vans with posh folk at the wheel ain't gonna change that. There's too much traffic about, and even if we all went round on skateboards, they'd still try to sting us as much as they could, imo.
sean rua.
"Ignorance is treatable; Arrogance is Terminal."
Whilst we are attempting to be broad-minded and trying to look at things from the viewpoint of others, I suppose it should be mentioned that places are inhabited by many, many, more folk than just
councillors, shopkeepers, publicans and hoteliers ( be they fat, thin, or otherwise).
The vast majority of the population of most towns are actually users of the services provided by the afore-mentioned categories.
Though the standard claim is often made that employment is provided by the enterprise of these folk, my own view is that the net impact of tourism - especially motorised tourists - is negative overall,
when judged from the standpoint of the majority of residents.
No, I have no break-down of the figures; don't know the personal details of each and every resident ; blah-di-blah- di yakkety-yak, etc. - but, for instance, from my own personal experience,
I'd hazzard a guess that
the folk living in Wembley and the folk living near Stratford, London ( if there any left) get more aggravation than benefit
from major local events.
I very much doubt that they relish the prospect of full car-parks, teeming shops and pubs, jammed up streets, etc etc.
So, that's just the other side of the coin. I don't expect anybody to take a blind bit of notice, of course, and I wish you all well in your travels, wherever you may go.
I'm heading for Aberystwyth today myself, and will spend at least a hundred times more money in the pubs and betting shops than I will in any place else.
Can't see me getting a Blue Peter badge for that, but not to worry.Last time I went I got arrested, but quickly released, so Goodness what will happen today! :angel::have fun::danger::heart::sleep-027:
Btw, Maureen is quite right. Even King Canute could see which way the tide is going. Since the Sixties the game has been over for the Travelling man.
Having bigger and better ice-cream vans with posh folk at the wheel ain't gonna change that. There's too much traffic about, and even if we all went round on skateboards, they'd still try to sting us as much as they could, imo.
sean rua.
"Ignorance is treatable; Arrogance is Terminal."
Deleted member 967
Guest
John you are wrong.
If the vehicle is a caravan as defined on the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.
The owner of land is required to hold a caravan site licence and have planning permission for 1 or more caravan to be stationed on his land for human habitation.
Also
John
Dezi
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Picking up on bits of this thread the only points I would add are :-
Many of the free Aires on mainland Europe that I have used over the past twenty years are now charging.
The one I noticed on my last trip in May was at port pleasance in Rochfort - now 5 euros a night.
Living in a seaside tourist spot I have commented before on how inconsiderate motorhomers brand us all. Adding fuel to some hoteliers who want us out of sight.
Finally I am pleased to see that Canalman Chris while only having a limited budget prefers to spend it in the local pub.
There is a citizen who in a turbulent and ever changing World has correctly sorted out life’s priorities. :cheers:
Dezic:
Many of the free Aires on mainland Europe that I have used over the past twenty years are now charging.
The one I noticed on my last trip in May was at port pleasance in Rochfort - now 5 euros a night.
Living in a seaside tourist spot I have commented before on how inconsiderate motorhomers brand us all. Adding fuel to some hoteliers who want us out of sight.
Finally I am pleased to see that Canalman Chris while only having a limited budget prefers to spend it in the local pub.
There is a citizen who in a turbulent and ever changing World has correctly sorted out life’s priorities. :cheers:
Dezi
c:fairytooth
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Once again much debate on a sensitive topic ...
Recently in making arrangements for overnight PARKING of motorhomes at Hayling seafront, Havant Borough Council made it clear to grumpy competition hating local caravan site owners that the site licensing did NOT apply to this situation.
The distinction was made, once again, that PARKING is not CAMPING - provided that you do not set down anything outside your motorhome, leave 4 wheels on the ground, etc. etc.
Havant BC and their legal team seem happy with their analysis of the issue so why can't others?
Recently in making arrangements for overnight PARKING of motorhomes at Hayling seafront, Havant Borough Council made it clear to grumpy competition hating local caravan site owners that the site licensing did NOT apply to this situation.
The distinction was made, once again, that PARKING is not CAMPING - provided that you do not set down anything outside your motorhome, leave 4 wheels on the ground, etc. etc.
Havant BC and their legal team seem happy with their analysis of the issue so why can't others?
John H
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Yes, we can all agree on that - and probably all have experience of it. But you cannot generalise from that to your original claim. For what it's worth I have just done a random search of the campingcar-infos site and out of 20 sites that came up only two charged for parking (they were on the south and west coasts) and only six charged for services. I can't say this is a scientific survey but it is probably more representative than taking one Department in a popular tourist area.
Bigpeetee
Guest
As I have mentioned before and reiterated by Tbear, the councils are happy to provide free facilities for those that take a picnic with them free advice on those that choose to walk or cycle around their area, many of these tourists put nothing into the local business's but are accepted, but suddenly free becomes an issue during the hours of darkness.
Many of the coastal roads in the county of Conwy have restrictions for motorhome parking between the hours of midnight and 8am. When questioning the council, they stated that the hoteliers complained that the view was being obstructed for paying guests, strange because the view overnight is usually one of darkness, and very few customers are up and about admiring the view before 8am. But I could park my Movano Hi Top LWB there quite legally.
Not buying in local shops is not just restricted to motorhomers!!, my wife used to run a "Camp Shop" on a large caravan park, the great majority brought the first load of food with them from home, then used the local supermarkets for food & booze. Her shop was used predominantly for newspapers and cigarettes, and some occasional bits and bobs that had been forgotten. Kids sweets were also popular in the "Here's a quid, now bugger off and get some sweets so we can get some peace and quiet" Of course the money coming in to the camp owners from ground rent etc has enabled them to have a very good life style. I don't know of a poor camp owner.
But where does all this Tourist income go?? Well most of them have got a villa somewhere warm, with boats etc, so a lot of it's not staying in the local economy.
Living in a tourist area, I see a lot of people abusing the facilities, but as always, there's good and bad. There are regular visitors to the prom at the end of our road, the majority are transitory but there's always one that claims the one spot for a fortnight. They never move the van in two weeks. maybe they just fish every tide.
What does puzzle me is that although I've given plenty of locations very close to the coast, I've never seen anyone on them. Peace and quiet, within five mins of the sea, yet like lemmings, almost everyone heads for the same stretch of coastline.
But Hey Ho, we're all different.
PS, if any member is a Tag Axle VAT, Hi, often see you parked overnight.
Many of the coastal roads in the county of Conwy have restrictions for motorhome parking between the hours of midnight and 8am. When questioning the council, they stated that the hoteliers complained that the view was being obstructed for paying guests, strange because the view overnight is usually one of darkness, and very few customers are up and about admiring the view before 8am. But I could park my Movano Hi Top LWB there quite legally.
Not buying in local shops is not just restricted to motorhomers!!, my wife used to run a "Camp Shop" on a large caravan park, the great majority brought the first load of food with them from home, then used the local supermarkets for food & booze. Her shop was used predominantly for newspapers and cigarettes, and some occasional bits and bobs that had been forgotten. Kids sweets were also popular in the "Here's a quid, now bugger off and get some sweets so we can get some peace and quiet" Of course the money coming in to the camp owners from ground rent etc has enabled them to have a very good life style. I don't know of a poor camp owner.
But where does all this Tourist income go?? Well most of them have got a villa somewhere warm, with boats etc, so a lot of it's not staying in the local economy.
Living in a tourist area, I see a lot of people abusing the facilities, but as always, there's good and bad. There are regular visitors to the prom at the end of our road, the majority are transitory but there's always one that claims the one spot for a fortnight. They never move the van in two weeks. maybe they just fish every tide.
What does puzzle me is that although I've given plenty of locations very close to the coast, I've never seen anyone on them. Peace and quiet, within five mins of the sea, yet like lemmings, almost everyone heads for the same stretch of coastline.
But Hey Ho, we're all different.
PS, if any member is a Tag Axle VAT, Hi, often see you parked overnight.
Northerner
Guest
It's statements like this that prompted me to start this thread. Once again we have someone who lacks the ability to see things from anyone's point of view but his own!
Imagine that you have a campsite, which is your entire life and in which everything you own is invested. You pay the council tens of thousands of pounds in rates and they they allow motorhomers to park for nothing on a huge car park near to your site. What must be more infuriating is that it's your rates that are paying for that car park and its upkeep. Is it really so hard to understand why a site owner would complain? To me they are businessmen who provide jobs and a service that really does help the local economy, to you they are grumpy site owners who don't like competition. Well, there's competition and there's competition. If you were a plumber and your local council suddenly decided that it would offer free plumbing services to all its residents, how would you feel? If you were unhappy, would you consider yourself a a grumpy competition-hating plumber, or a businessman with a legitimate right to complain?