Solar panels, controller, leisure batts, inverter, B2B etc. from a clean sheet

[Fisherman]

Yes just read about them, but expensive, 3 lead carbons £600, one lipo same, swings and roundabouts at the end of the day.

Trev you can buy three 110 AH Lithiums for £750 on Amazon right now.
Lithium is the future, Lead batteries are actually much more expensive in the long run. At 50% discharge mine will recharge 5000 times, at 100% it’s 2000 times Trev. Less weight, greater usable power, they’re a no brainier in my honest opinion Trev. As for fire risk not the type used in motorhomes Trev, they’re much safer.

 

[1 Cup]

Are you fitting gas if so fidge and cooker and heating. All save amps. My van biuld was all on the premise of all electric. And the only 2 items from victron I have to upgrade are the solar controller and extra b2b for 60 amps . The Blue boxes are £200 each 500amp battery's £1500, fridge 12 v only airfryer 240v hob 240v
And copper wire was about £150 £300 .crimping is £2.50 each terminal. At 70mm=12volts 2020 -2023
Victron wire £25 each.× 3

But if I done it again I would go 24v system from lights to invertor in hab, Evan though my vans 12v. As the b2b is the only thing earthed to van chassis.

Could save upto 30 to 40 % 24volts. As all makes are 12v and 24 volts .

Good luck as you go more knowledge on fitters needed. it's not hard but only frustrating

I liked the biuld experience myself. Lol

 

[Admin]

What is the best way forward, starting from a clean sheet and no existing solar of any sort on a brand new MH.

It is very likely my next purchase has nothing fitted other than a leisure battery (unknown size, make and AH) that I would not hesitate in removing and making way for something else. I’m going to view it tomorrow with tape measure in hand.

I am going to assume the footprint in the battery compartment allows for 2x110ah, but for now the height is unknown - I would hope it is large enough to fit a 345x190x245 Fogstar 300ah lithium which will easily go where 2 x 110ah batts go, it’s just the height I need to worry about.

of course right now I don’t know what will fit on the roof until I can clamber on top and take some measurements.

I have had some Victron products in the past, would it be sensible to go the route of Victron everything? If I do and the roof can handle it, what would be comfortable to keep the above Lithium charged?

then, do I get the dealer to fit ‘what I want’ and not what he wants, and at a sensible price if I can’t get it as part of the deal. Or have it all fitted by someone who knows what they’re doing? I’m in Exeter, Devon so a trip to Scotshire would be a bit of a silly

suggestions, recommendations, hints, tips or general p-taking welcomed.

BlueFix is a good option. They are Victron-trained professionals. Victron uses them in their promo videos. Their labour rates are cheaper than dealers, who, in my experience, have no idea what they are doing. You should be able to stay on site whilst the work is being done. They have a real focus on making every job perfect.

5% off a full install (parts and labour) can be a good saving.

 

[wildebus]

I think it was neckender who posted that you could get eco-worthy 100AH lifep04 for just £215 on Ebay because they were doing a special 20% off promo for Halloween. Think it's elapsed now but even at the full price of £270 it's probably cheaper than building them yourself. I'm a big fan of the lead carbons but even at this sort of cost I'd go lithium personally. If you're wilding for long periods than your batteries are almost certainly going to be spending a lot of hours in a partial state of charge which is a battery killer, carbon isn't affected by this as much as lead acid but it doesn't adversely affect lifepo4 at all, in fact they prefer it.

The major downside of going Lithium is the potential need to add in various supporting accessories - might need to add on a Battery SOC Monitor if the Lithium fitted has no, or a poor/flaky integral SOC monitor and chargers that are suitable for Lithium are the main things; Also need to check what the BMS is rated at current wise - even some of the larger batteries have a pretty low rated BMS and you could do well just to run a 1000W inverter at full power.

If revamping a full electrics setup, then makes sense to go Lithium; Same if building a new van; But if someone has a Motorhome and just needs/wants to replace a tired Lead Acid battery, Lithium may end up being a much more expensive choice then they thought
This pretty aggressive dropping in price of Lithium has impacted a bit the interest in Hybrid (Lithium + Lead) Batter Banks using my VSDR Lithium Controller, but there is still an advantage in a good Hybrid setup as it removes the need to have Lithium-compatible chargers, which can be handy, as well as the other benefits.

 

[SimonM]

Well the situation has changed. I have purchased a new MH which had been configured with 2 Varta 95ah and also a Lithium battery (unknown make or size) , along with an 1800w inverter that enables the interior 240v sockets to function off grid.

However it does not come equipped with any solar panels or controller etc.

I think it’s prudent that when I finally get it to take it a little way in the road from me to VanBitz in Taunton and see what their professional advice is going forward.

it came up in conversation that I should hold off on a sat tv dish and to consider going wifi, which in turn prompts the question - how, what, explain etc. I think a new thread is needed.

 

[GMLS]

Well the situation has changed. I have purchased a new MH which had been configured with 2 Varta 95ah and also a Lithium battery (unknown make or size) , along with an 1800w inverter that enables the interior 240v sockets to function off grid.

However it does not come equipped with any solar panels or controller etc.

I think it’s prudent that when I finally get it to take it a little way in the road from me to VanBitz in Taunton and see what their professional advice is going forward.

it came up in conversation that I should hold off on a sat tv dish and to consider going wifi, which in turn prompts the question - how, what, explain etc. I think a new thread is needed.

Re WiFi, spend a bit of time looking at this play list Helped me a lot https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHOEQx7dQbeUmrE2GUZ7ZbDSHqK28DxwS&si=3C_Y-S7ZNRnexete

 

[Chrisinchip]

The risk-averse me says you need to be aware of how any changes you make affect the new MH (habitation) warranty. It sounds like you’re very happy going the independent route but personally I’d still want to understand the dealer’s solution to my requirements.

As said in some earlier responses, do the sums to calculate your expected power consumption based on the new MH equipment and your expected usage. Using your worst case camping scenario (mine is parked up for 5-day festival in hot weather) you start to get a picture of “if my battery has X Ah capacity it will run out after N days so I need solar to give me Y Ah per day”.

Apologies if this is too basic. I got caught out by the manufacturer stating my van was kitted for off-grid camping but my definition of FIT FOR OFF-GRID camping was different from the usage the manufacturer assumed.

Related to my first paragraph above, I found it difficult to find an independent auto electrician prepared to work on a (nearly) new van because of the need to work out first how the manufacturer had wired it up. Perhaps it’s because I needed a B2B charger to replace an existing split charge system. In the end I paid the electrician 2 hrs to reverse engineer the existing system so he could quote however it gave me confidence that the work was being done in-the-know.

Charging devices (B2B, solar controller, EHU) need to have the correct charging profile configured for the battery. Where there is a mix of battery types, you need to identify any charging sources that charge mixed battery types and determine if different profiles is supported or can be safely compromised. (E.g. If I changed my LB to Lithium, I can’t change my EHU profile so it would never fully charge the Lithium LB. My solar controller despite having twin battery capability it doesn’t support different charging profiles so would be disconnected from SB and set to Lithium for the LB only)

 

[trevskoda]

Saw these on temu today, just wondering are they real mppt units, very cheep.

 

[SimonM]

You know what they say, Trev - buy cheap buy twice. It looks a bit brown and sticky, I wouldn’t want to bother to sniff it


@Chrisinchip - yesterday I made the decision to enquire what the main dealer would actually fit to this new MH, will perhaps 2x175w Victron fit, and what controller would they use? The initial response is they will question their service dept. and yes they do use Victron panels and Victron MPPT. I had an extremely enlightening discussion with Phil @Admin a couple of nights ago about what to consider especially as this is brand new, and has the Hymer hybrid lithium 150ah/ 2x95ah agm battery setup. Additionally, we have been power hungry in the past with running a Sky box, TV and satellite dish. We are likely to only be using the TVand not much else as all the lights are LED. But I still want the added benefit of solar as we almost never hookup to EHU even at home.

 

[wildebus]

Saw these on temu today, just wondering are they real mppt units, very cheep.View attachment 124645

30A MPPT Controller for under £15. Result. I suggest installing that and some solar panels on the Bridge I am about to sell you

 

[Chrisinchip]

30A MPPT Controller for under £15. Result. I suggest installing that and some solar panels on the Bridge I am about to sell you

I think the model displayed is the 100A version (same physical size as its lower rated siblings). Maybe it doubles up as a toaster

 

[Chrisinchip]

@Chrisinchip - yesterday I made the decision to enquire what the main dealer would actually fit to this new MH, will perhaps 2x175w Victron fit, and what controller would they use? The initial response is they will question their service dept. and yes they do use Victron panels and Victron MPPT. I had an extremely enlightening discussion with Phil @Admin a couple of nights ago about what to consider especially as this is brand new, and has the Hymer hybrid lithium 150ah/ 2x95ah agm battery setup. Additionally, we have been power hungry in the past with running a Sky box, TV and satellite dish. We are likely to only be using the TVand not much else as all the lights are LED. But I still want the added benefit of solar as we almost never hookup to EHU even at home.

Sounds like you're on it and we all know that Victron is a trusted make.

I know nothing about Hymer's hybrid battery setup so I would want to be confident that the solution looks after all 3 batteries optimally and responsibly.
Also to optimise your off-grid power usage, try to use 12V devices as much as possible and minimise your use of the inverter. (At best inverters waste around 5%, but when lightly loaded this percentage goes up significantly)

 

[SimonM]

Sounds like you're on it and we all know that Victron is a trusted make.

I know nothing about Hymer's hybrid battery setup so I would want to be confident that the solution looks after all 3 batteries optimally and responsibly.
Also to optimise your off-grid power usage, try to use 12V devices as much as possible and minimise your use of the inverter. (At best inverters waste around 5%, but when lightly loaded this percentage goes up significantly)

The inverter will be useful for us to charge memsahib’s mobility scooter when it’s in the garage, as there is a 240v socket mounted there. Otherwise everything we use is 12v powered.
Undoubtedly she will want to make me carry the microwave oven now and again. We took it out of the Burstner to allow us to carry parts of her smaller pavement scoot

 

[wildebus]

Sounds like you're on it and we all know that Victron is a trusted make.

I know nothing about Hymer's hybrid battery setup so I would want to be confident that the solution looks after all 3 batteries optimally and responsibly.
Also to optimise your off-grid power usage, try to use 12V devices as much as possible and minimise your use of the inverter. (At best inverters waste around 5%, but when lightly loaded this percentage goes up significantly)

A Lithium/Lead Hybrid battery system can be very good and provide a very cost-effective power solution
However, the Hymers Hybrid system is - IMO - slightly odd. In essence, it tends to priorise the use of the Lead Acid Batteries over the Lithium Battery, which is - IMO again - the wrong way round. Lithium batteries are more efficient in delivering power, more efficient in recharging and have significantly more charge cycles, so it is the Lithium that should be delivering the Lions share of the power with the Lead backing it up.

This following pattern of use makes a lot more sense (IMO )

Screenshot 2023-11-07 at 13-40-47 Monty - VRM Portal by David, on Flickr
This is my Battery Bank from a few days last month and you see the Lithium SOC (green line) dropping, but the Lead SOC (orange line) is holding steady. You see the orange line dropping as the Lithium plateaus at around 10% or so and the Lead starts to be the main power supplier (but a key thing being on heavier loads such as cooking or heating, both are available to share the demand)


From what I have read about the Hymer Hybrid system, you see a bit of a reversed position. This means you would have taken out a charge cycle from the Lead (which maybe started with around only 250 cycles?) and would be recharging at a battery efficiency of maybe 95% conversion at best PLUS a charge slowdown as the battery goes into the Absorption stage. With a Lithium prioritised Hybrid setup, you use up one charge cycle from a battery that has maybe 3,000 available, and you recharge at around a 99% efficiency with no slowdown of charge rate until the battery is full.

The charging between Lithium and Lead on the Hymer setup is done with a little 'magic box' that is dedicated to the Lithium Battery and I have done douubt does what it is meant to. However if you add another Lithium, you need to add another 'magic box' (I am calling it that as I don't know its proper name off hand. My own 'magic box' is called a VSDR Lithium Controller and supports multiple Lithiums )

 

[Okta]

I have just been chatting to KS Energy about their 200Ah battery going into my new motorhome. With all new vans now having smart alternators the better manufacturers are now fitting boosters/B2B as standard but most are only using a 25A booster/B2B. This is ok for a 50% discharged 100Ah battery, which assuming no other draw on the current should recharge with just over 2 hours of driving. However KS say 50 to 70A would be needed for a 200Ah battery.

 

[SimonM]

Now I know nothing, and understand even less. Here’s the blurb from Hymer of the setup of the hybrid battery system.

HYMER Smart Battery System

For greater autonomy when travelling: With the HYMER Smart Battery System, HYMER is presenting a unique solution for supplying leisure vehicles with power and combining the superb performance of lithium batteries with the low costs of conventional lead batteries.

www.hymer.com

 

[wildebus]

Now I know nothing, and understand even less. Here’s the blurb from Hymer of the setup of the hybrid battery system.

HYMER Smart Battery System

For greater autonomy when travelling: With the HYMER Smart Battery System, HYMER is presenting a unique solution for supplying leisure vehicles with power and combining the superb performance of lithium batteries with the low costs of conventional lead batteries.

www.hymer.com

So they do prioritise the USE of the Lithium, which makes sense.
I still don't get why .... "The system ensures that the lead batteries are charged first" for the reasons I put in my previous post*

But apart from that aspect, the description and reasons for having a Hybrid Battery ....



* Just had a thought why they might do this. Regular Lead-Acid batteries should be recharged as soon as possible after use so their rational is probably to deal with that situation.
On my Hybrid setups I prefer the use of Lead Carbon batteries to accompany the Lithium as Lead Carbons are perfectly ok with a prolonged PSOC (Partial State of Charge). But because Lithium charges notably faster then Lead, there would not be too much of a delay on getting to the Lead Acid batteries anyway unless you are getting a very sporadic charging availabilty.

 

[Afcbman]

Why not consider having the solar panels fitted and buy a power station e.g All powers / Jackery?
I have the AllPowers S2000. Very happy with it. Expensive but 5 year guarantee and use it anywhere home, garage as well as MH.

Plenty of reviews including Gadget John and Mandy on YouTube.

 

[JQB]

What is the best way forward, starting from a clean sheet and no existing solar of any sort on a brand new MH.

It is very likely my next purchase has nothing fitted other than a leisure battery (unknown size, make and AH) that I would not hesitate in removing and making way for something else. I’m going to view it tomorrow with tape measure in hand.

I am going to assume the footprint in the battery compartment allows for 2x110ah, but for now the height is unknown - I would hope it is large enough to fit a 345x190x245 Fogstar 300ah lithium which will easily go where 2 x 110ah batts go, it’s just the height I need to worry about.

of course right now I don’t know what will fit on the roof until I can clamber on top and take some measurements.

I have had some Victron products in the past, would it be sensible to go the route of Victron everything? If I do and the roof can handle it, what would be comfortable to keep the above Lithium charged?

then, do I get the dealer to fit ‘what I want’ and not what he wants, and at a sensible price if I can’t get it as part of the deal. Or have it all fitted by someone who knows what they’re doing? I’m in Exeter, Devon so a trip to Scotshire would be a bit of a silly

suggestions, recommendations, hints, tips or general p-taking welcomed.

Our insurer, LV, told me that anything fitted after you take delivery constitutes a vehicle modification, so invalidating the policy unless notified and agreed and extra premium paid paid. Any excuse.

 

[mistericeman]

Our insurer, LV, told me that anything fitted after you take delivery constitutes a vehicle modification, so invalidating the policy unless notified and agreed and extra premium paid paid. Any excuse.

True to a certain extent ...

Any mods from standard should be declared (it's the person taking out the policies responsibility to declare them ...NOT the insurance companies responsibility to ask )

None declared additions/Mods to a vehicle CAN be used be the insurance company to reduce cover to 3rd party in the event of an accident (they have a legal duty to maintain cover to 3rd parties in the event of an accident )
Or to reduce the amount you get paid for damage/injury etc ...

BUT they will likely take legal action to recover costs to 3rd parties that they have paid out ...

Modifications DON'T always lead to an increase in policy costs ...

BUT always declare anything none standard on your vehicles ...
To make sure your cover is what it should be .