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Only you believe that you know what you are talking about, this is not an opinion that I agree with.
as I said, the results will speak for themselves.
Solar charge controller - load terminals - what practical use in a MH ?
Only you believe that you know what you are talking about, this is not an opinion that I agree with.
as I said, the results will speak for themselves.
Obanboy666
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Watching this thread with great interest.
Amazes me the technology that owners fit to their vans and the huge battery banks and solar they have installed. I have 2 x 105 amp leisure batteries fed by a 100 watt solar battery. Often, especially this time of year I can be parked up for 3/4 days without hook up with tv on for 8/10 hrs a day if there is cycling or cricket to watch and the Truma combi on if cold. Never have an issue with batteries getting excessively discharged.
I use my van more in winter than summer and again to date no issues keeping batteries charged as I move on every 2/3 days.
Only charge the base vehicles battery gets is when I am on the move and the odd time I put ehu on at home, solar panel only feeds the leisure batteries.
I have an alarm and imobiliser fitted and van can be stood for 3 weeks and starts first week time.
I can understand someone charging the vehicle from the solar panels if parked up for weeks on end but not if the motorhome is regulary used.
I’m no expert on motorhome technology so please accept my apologies if I’m talking out of my a##e !
Amazes me the technology that owners fit to their vans and the huge battery banks and solar they have installed. I have 2 x 105 amp leisure batteries fed by a 100 watt solar battery. Often, especially this time of year I can be parked up for 3/4 days without hook up with tv on for 8/10 hrs a day if there is cycling or cricket to watch and the Truma combi on if cold. Never have an issue with batteries getting excessively discharged.
I use my van more in winter than summer and again to date no issues keeping batteries charged as I move on every 2/3 days.
Only charge the base vehicles battery gets is when I am on the move and the odd time I put ehu on at home, solar panel only feeds the leisure batteries.
I have an alarm and imobiliser fitted and van can be stood for 3 weeks and starts first week time.
I can understand someone charging the vehicle from the solar panels if parked up for weeks on end but not if the motorhome is regulary used.
I’m no expert on motorhome technology so please accept my apologies if I’m talking out of my a##e !
wildebus
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I found I had to make use of the "ignore" feature to avoid getting wound up. And reading quoted messages, nothing has changed 
I am revising my own method to charge the starter battery when off-grid and stationary during to a changed layout.
Originally going to fit the mains charger and the split charge relay, driven by the D+ signal under the passenger seat, but decided to reuse an existing 16mm cable that went to the tail lift and run that to the Leisure electrics area under the bed and keep it all together.
So now will use a pretty typical 140A VSR split-charge setup so the starter and leisure batteries will be tied together when the voltage hits 13.3V.
How the Victron BMS will cope with a battery bank that grows from 440Ah to 550Ah and then shrinks again on a regular basis I am not sure?. Will be interesting to monitor that.
This aspect of system Monitoring is where a B2B unit has a distinct advantage over a device that simply connects two separate batteries together (apart from its other advantages).
I am revising my own method to charge the starter battery when off-grid and stationary during to a changed layout.
Originally going to fit the mains charger and the split charge relay, driven by the D+ signal under the passenger seat, but decided to reuse an existing 16mm cable that went to the tail lift and run that to the Leisure electrics area under the bed and keep it all together.
So now will use a pretty typical 140A VSR split-charge setup so the starter and leisure batteries will be tied together when the voltage hits 13.3V.
How the Victron BMS will cope with a battery bank that grows from 440Ah to 550Ah and then shrinks again on a regular basis I am not sure?. Will be interesting to monitor that.
This aspect of system Monitoring is where a B2B unit has a distinct advantage over a device that simply connects two separate batteries together (apart from its other advantages).
Deleted member 62288
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I found I had to make use of the "ignore" feature to avoid getting wound up. And reading quoted messages, nothing has changed
I am revising my own method to charge the starter battery when off-grid and stationary during to a changed layout.
Originally going to fit the mains charger and the split charge relay, driven by the D+ signal under the passenger seat, but decided to reuse an existing 16mm cable that went to the tail lift and run that to the Leisure electrics area under the bed and keep it all together.
So now will use a pretty typical 140A VSR split-charge setup so the starter and leisure batteries will be tied together when the voltage hits 13.3V.
How the Victron BMS will cope with a battery bank that grows from 440Ah to 550Ah and then shrinks again on a regular basis I am not sure?. Will be interesting to monitor that.
This aspect of system Monitoring is where a B2B unit has a distinct advantage over a device that simply connects two separate batteries together (apart from its other advantages).
I guess that if you re-configure the battery monitor to reflect the changing capacity,(as you go from 440 to 550, everything should work out just fine.
and Thanks for your positive support and suggestions.
james
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Thanks for sharing with us. I agree, that for most folks, short park ups of 2-3 days will easily be managed by their aux batteries.
I found several times during my last adventure around Iberia, that long park ups of more than 3 or 4 days exhausted my aux batteries, requiring me to either drive off or run the engine to give me a bit longer loafing time.
I was inspired by a mate who spends every winter parked up in the sand dunes along the Moroccan coast, while he wind surfs.
He has gone for 6v Trojans which are kept topped up by the African sun.
When I got back to the UK, I had already decided to invest in a "dogs nads" type of upgrade, I set myself a couple of simple objectives (although I don't understand the meaning of the word apparently)
A) Increase the aux reserve to the maximum that I could physically fit into the available space.
B) Ensure that I could keep them charged up at all times via solar panels.
So I now have 460Ah Victron AGM battery reserve, 4 panels on the roof totalling around 340W (No room for any more up there) managed by a 40A Victron MPPT controller. All without disturbing the existing factory fitted electrics.
But I found a discrepancy that I was unaware of, that is, when stationary and without a 220v EHU , the Schaudtt EBL-100 can't charge the engine battery, even when I had a proper Schaudtt solar controller in the circuit, so I had to seek a solution that used the Victron MPPT load terminals as a source for the engine battery, but how and what ?
The rest of the storey can be found in the various postings made in this thread.
It's all in and working better than I anticipated, with the exception of the missing link for charging the starter battery.
This missing link in my design has generated lots of debate and suggestions, mostly of a good quality.
I'll have the whole installation completed in a couple more days and I am expecting to be in a position where the sunshine will always be keeping my batteries topped up to full, for an unlimited period of time, provided that I don't go mental and try to use heavy loads such as an electric kettle etc.
It helps that I have already eliminated most of my 220v needs and moved over to 12v equipment.
I am yet to see if I can use my NutriBullet and expresso machine, not to mention the Henry for the dog hairs, but I am optimistic.
james
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The Sterling BB1230 Battery to battery charger.
The Sterling BB1230 Battery to battery charger.
here is the data that I am using to meet my objectives:
From the BB1230 box :
The Pro Bat Ultra is a DC to DC charger that is installed between a battery bank which is being charged (typically a starter battery being charged by an alternator/battery charger) and a battery bank that you wish to charge (auxilliary / house / bow thruster).
The charger shall provide a 5 stage charging profile to these output batteries.
Keywords: DC to DC charger
This unit will reduce the input voltage if it too high and boost if its too low ensuring the batteries receive their optimal charge voltage.
The unit is typically deployed using the engine battery and alternator as the source / input and an auxilliary battery as the target or battery to be charged.
Keyword Typically.
However in my case, my requirement is to use a pair of unused terminals on my Victron MPPT controller called the LOAD terminals, as a source of power which can be fed into the BB1230 and used to maintain the engine battery.
So I will end up with MPPT Load output at 14v / 14A as INPUT to the BB1230.
The BB1230 Output will then provide a proper 5 stage charging profile which I will then connect directly to the engine battery.
The existing Schaudtt EBL-100 already handles the engine and AUX batteries when driving or on a 220v EHU so the typical use for the BB1230 would simply duplicate an existing EBL-100 function and is not addressing the need to charge the engine battery from solar.
So an overview is as follows :
During daylight hours the 340Watt PV panels feed into a Victron 40 Amp MPPT controller.
The Victron 40 Amp MPPT controller has 2 separate charging outputs :
A) is the usual BAT terminals, which I have connected to the 460Ah Victron AGM Super Cycle batteries and can deliver up to 40A if there is enough sunshine. However, my 340 Watt panels will probably deliver a maximum of maybe 20 - 25 Amps to the controller.
The MPPT controller is configured for AGM batteries on the BAT terminals.
B) A pair of output terminals called LOAD, which will deliver 14 DC Volts at a max of 14 Amps raw DC - not profiled or managed, it is either there or not.
This source will be used to derive an INPUT into the BB1230 DC to DC charger.
As the Sterling literature says, the BB1230 will adjust the input voltage and ensure the target battery is properly charged depending on the type of battery being configured into the BB1230.
Both ends of the BB1230 will be seeing pure DC.
The MPPT terminals are all dead when it's dark so the BB1230 will not have any work to do.
This action is similar to parking the car - no alternator so no work to do.
So The MPPT BAT terminals are providing me an AGM charging profile while the LOAD terminals drive the BB1230 which will be configured for a Lead-acid battery charging profile.
This gives me simultaneous charging of BOTH battery banks and both are correctly profiled.
Status to date:
The MPPT charging of the AUX batteries has been in use for around 3 weeks of full time live-in conditions and work better than I expected.
Every day, even the gloomy ones, have seen my Aux batteries fully replenished by midday or earlier.
This demonstrates that I have plenty of spare solar power available that will easily charge an 95Ah engine battery in it's spare time.
Now to be honest,the engine battery charging via the BB1230 is unproven, but the specs say it will work just fine.
I intend to jerry-rig the BB1230 and watch it for a day or so before I hang it onto a bulkhead and cable it up permanently.
Or possibly just go ahead with the full installation - as my confidence level is unaffected by irritating Dog Hairs.
As Ian Drury sang "It's nice to be a lunatic"
Thank you dear reader for your close attention.
james
The Sterling BB1230 Battery to battery charger.
here is the data that I am using to meet my objectives:
From the BB1230 box :
The Pro Bat Ultra is a DC to DC charger that is installed between a battery bank which is being charged (typically a starter battery being charged by an alternator/battery charger) and a battery bank that you wish to charge (auxilliary / house / bow thruster).
The charger shall provide a 5 stage charging profile to these output batteries.
Keywords: DC to DC charger
This unit will reduce the input voltage if it too high and boost if its too low ensuring the batteries receive their optimal charge voltage.
The unit is typically deployed using the engine battery and alternator as the source / input and an auxilliary battery as the target or battery to be charged.
Keyword Typically.
However in my case, my requirement is to use a pair of unused terminals on my Victron MPPT controller called the LOAD terminals, as a source of power which can be fed into the BB1230 and used to maintain the engine battery.
So I will end up with MPPT Load output at 14v / 14A as INPUT to the BB1230.
The BB1230 Output will then provide a proper 5 stage charging profile which I will then connect directly to the engine battery.
The existing Schaudtt EBL-100 already handles the engine and AUX batteries when driving or on a 220v EHU so the typical use for the BB1230 would simply duplicate an existing EBL-100 function and is not addressing the need to charge the engine battery from solar.
So an overview is as follows :
During daylight hours the 340Watt PV panels feed into a Victron 40 Amp MPPT controller.
The Victron 40 Amp MPPT controller has 2 separate charging outputs :
A) is the usual BAT terminals, which I have connected to the 460Ah Victron AGM Super Cycle batteries and can deliver up to 40A if there is enough sunshine. However, my 340 Watt panels will probably deliver a maximum of maybe 20 - 25 Amps to the controller.
The MPPT controller is configured for AGM batteries on the BAT terminals.
B) A pair of output terminals called LOAD, which will deliver 14 DC Volts at a max of 14 Amps raw DC - not profiled or managed, it is either there or not.
This source will be used to derive an INPUT into the BB1230 DC to DC charger.
As the Sterling literature says, the BB1230 will adjust the input voltage and ensure the target battery is properly charged depending on the type of battery being configured into the BB1230.
Both ends of the BB1230 will be seeing pure DC.
The MPPT terminals are all dead when it's dark so the BB1230 will not have any work to do.
This action is similar to parking the car - no alternator so no work to do.
So The MPPT BAT terminals are providing me an AGM charging profile while the LOAD terminals drive the BB1230 which will be configured for a Lead-acid battery charging profile.
This gives me simultaneous charging of BOTH battery banks and both are correctly profiled.
Status to date:
The MPPT charging of the AUX batteries has been in use for around 3 weeks of full time live-in conditions and work better than I expected.
Every day, even the gloomy ones, have seen my Aux batteries fully replenished by midday or earlier.
This demonstrates that I have plenty of spare solar power available that will easily charge an 95Ah engine battery in it's spare time.
Now to be honest,the engine battery charging via the BB1230 is unproven, but the specs say it will work just fine.
I intend to jerry-rig the BB1230 and watch it for a day or so before I hang it onto a bulkhead and cable it up permanently.
Or possibly just go ahead with the full installation - as my confidence level is unaffected by irritating Dog Hairs.
As Ian Drury sang "It's nice to be a lunatic"
Thank you dear reader for your close attention.
james
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wildebus
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This post about Charging Starter Batteries is not of direct relevance, but may be of interest to those with Solar Arrays and interestingly enough, Compressor Fridges (confused with connection? read on!)
Not sure if it should be in this topic but I believe adds to the knowledge base presented in this thread.
I added a VSR (Voltage Sensing/Switching Relay) to my Camper yesterday as primarily a Split-Charge system and also to allow charging of the Starter Battery from the Solar to put excess energy to use, just as the OP is intending to do.
I hadn't actually intended to use a VSR originally but when I looked at the data this morning I think I am very pleased I was pushed down that route!
This is the Starter Battery (SB) and Leisure Battery Bank (LBB) Voltages
VRM-Batteries (VSR kicked in) by David, on Flickr
The graph shows the time the VSR kicked in (07:50) and how the Starter Battery leapt from 12.67V to 13.25V. And since that time, the Voltage of the Starter Battery has been in step with the Leisure Battery Bank (comparing the blue lines on both charts). This is what you would expect when a Relay is on.
What the chart also confirms is the VSR kicked on when the LBB hit 13.3V - precisely what the spec of the VSR says (13.3V on, 12.8V off)
What the next chart shows is interesting as well
VRM-DC System (VSR kicked in) by David, on Flickr
This is power consumption demands from the system. As can be seen here, when the VSR kicked in, the power demand jumped - as you would expect with a load requiring power appearing (when one battery is at a lower voltage than another battery, it is effectively no longer a source of power but a consumer of power).
I had wondered how the system would cope (in terms of Battery Management System Reporting) with a Battery Bank that grows and shrinks, but in fact - and this should have been more obvious in hindsight - the Battery Bank will not essentially 'grow' until both SB and LBB are near enough at 100% as until then the SB will be taking the power that the LBB doesn't need - just like say a TV taking more power than a light.
Actual SOC didn't change when the VSR kicked in in fact (it might have dropped slightly if it were at 100% already? it is slightly quirky anyway when it hits 100% and there is slight power use).
Right now as I type this the SOC has hit 100%, the MPPT controller is in Absorption mode (I would guess it will be in Float pretty soon once the SB is fully loaded as still a fair power coming in at 160W).
I *think* the SB will also benefit from the MPPTs multi-stage charging algorithm but maybe not as much as LBB (however I believe I have that covered with the digital regulator that is going on the Alternator).
And so the "money shot" - LBB and SB kept on charge, Fridge running keeping the beer cold, Fan running keeping the interior cooler ...
VRM-runningonSolar by David, on Flickr
Oh.... Compressor Fridge?
OK. You have the SB and LBB linked together and as the evening approachs the solar harvesting reduces and you are drawing power from the SB as well as the LBB.
This is not what you really want ideally as the idea is to keep the SB at optimum.
Now there is a good side effect to the Rush-in Power each time the Compressor kicks in - the voltage dips momentarily each time this happens by a small amount. The effect this will have near the end of daylight is to take the voltage briefly below 12.8V, at which point the VSR disengages and when the inrush is over a few seconds later, the voltage rise again, but not to a point where the VSR will re-engage. So you keep the SB fully charged and don't draw on it at all for Leisure purposes.
Not sure if it should be in this topic but I believe adds to the knowledge base presented in this thread.
I added a VSR (Voltage Sensing/Switching Relay) to my Camper yesterday as primarily a Split-Charge system and also to allow charging of the Starter Battery from the Solar to put excess energy to use, just as the OP is intending to do.
I hadn't actually intended to use a VSR originally but when I looked at the data this morning I think I am very pleased I was pushed down that route!
This is the Starter Battery (SB) and Leisure Battery Bank (LBB) Voltages
VRM-Batteries (VSR kicked in) by David, on Flickr
The graph shows the time the VSR kicked in (07:50) and how the Starter Battery leapt from 12.67V to 13.25V. And since that time, the Voltage of the Starter Battery has been in step with the Leisure Battery Bank (comparing the blue lines on both charts). This is what you would expect when a Relay is on.
What the chart also confirms is the VSR kicked on when the LBB hit 13.3V - precisely what the spec of the VSR says (13.3V on, 12.8V off)
What the next chart shows is interesting as well
VRM-DC System (VSR kicked in) by David, on Flickr
This is power consumption demands from the system. As can be seen here, when the VSR kicked in, the power demand jumped - as you would expect with a load requiring power appearing (when one battery is at a lower voltage than another battery, it is effectively no longer a source of power but a consumer of power).
I had wondered how the system would cope (in terms of Battery Management System Reporting) with a Battery Bank that grows and shrinks, but in fact - and this should have been more obvious in hindsight - the Battery Bank will not essentially 'grow' until both SB and LBB are near enough at 100% as until then the SB will be taking the power that the LBB doesn't need - just like say a TV taking more power than a light.
Actual SOC didn't change when the VSR kicked in in fact (it might have dropped slightly if it were at 100% already? it is slightly quirky anyway when it hits 100% and there is slight power use).
Right now as I type this the SOC has hit 100%, the MPPT controller is in Absorption mode (I would guess it will be in Float pretty soon once the SB is fully loaded as still a fair power coming in at 160W).
I *think* the SB will also benefit from the MPPTs multi-stage charging algorithm but maybe not as much as LBB (however I believe I have that covered with the digital regulator that is going on the Alternator).
And so the "money shot" - LBB and SB kept on charge, Fridge running keeping the beer cold, Fan running keeping the interior cooler ...
VRM-runningonSolar by David, on Flickr
Oh.... Compressor Fridge?
OK. You have the SB and LBB linked together and as the evening approachs the solar harvesting reduces and you are drawing power from the SB as well as the LBB.
This is not what you really want ideally as the idea is to keep the SB at optimum.
Now there is a good side effect to the Rush-in Power each time the Compressor kicks in - the voltage dips momentarily each time this happens by a small amount. The effect this will have near the end of daylight is to take the voltage briefly below 12.8V, at which point the VSR disengages and when the inrush is over a few seconds later, the voltage rise again, but not to a point where the VSR will re-engage. So you keep the SB fully charged and don't draw on it at all for Leisure purposes.
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That's A Very..........
.................... impressive piece of work and is exceptionally well presented.
Thank you.
(Apologies for truncating your post, wildebus, but I didn't want to reproduce the whole text).
Colin
.................... impressive piece of work and is exceptionally well presented.
Thank you.
(Apologies for truncating your post, wildebus, but I didn't want to reproduce the whole text).
Colin
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Deleted member 62288
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.................... impressive piece of work and is exceptionally well presented.
Thank you.
(Apologies for truncating your post, wildebus, but I didn't want to reproduce the whole text).
Colin
I'll piggy back this reply, to agree.
Many Thanks, a quality piece of work indeed, as is the entire van, very high standard.
and the bit I do like, is the shortened quote above,
This post...........And so the "money shot" - LBB and SB kept on charge, Fridge running ................. Nice one.
These are 3 of my objectives, looks like I have met 2 of them as of now, you've met all 3.
In this thread and another that I started regarding running the 3x way fridge on 12v permanently, the advice was mixed but generally discouraged.
I remain optimistic and will look at the topic when I get further down my list of TTD.
wildebus
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Thanks for the postive feedback Colin.
James, thank you for your comments as well of course. I sometimes wonder if I am hijacking your thread with some of my posts, but I think (hope!) they add value to the topic and are worthwhile additions to it rather than being put on a seperate thread entirely. Please do let me know if it is too much!
Once your B2B is fitted, the 3rd objective will be met as well I have zero doubt on that. Your thought process on the operation of that is - IMO - totally sound.
The way the VSR is working for me is a bit of a surprise. No reason why it should have been - I just hadn't fully worked the logic out until the numbers were staring at me on the screen (my "thing" is data analysis which is why I love working out this kind of stuff )
James, thank you for your comments as well of course. I sometimes wonder if I am hijacking your thread with some of my posts, but I think (hope!) they add value to the topic and are worthwhile additions to it rather than being put on a seperate thread entirely. Please do let me know if it is too much!
Once your B2B is fitted, the 3rd objective will be met as well I have zero doubt on that. Your thought process on the operation of that is - IMO - totally sound.
The way the VSR is working for me is a bit of a surprise. No reason why it should have been - I just hadn't fully worked the logic out until the numbers were staring at me on the screen (my "thing" is data analysis which is why I love working out this kind of stuff
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The Sterling BB1230 is now in service.
The Sterling BB1230 is now in service.
I've hung it in the main cabin (which I think I'm going to regret) and temporarily wired it up between the MPPT controller and the engine battery.
It started up as soon as I put in the fuses.
Reason that I'll regret this choice is that the BB1230 is LOUD, both visually and it has a noisy fan.
As it is our first night together, I am hoping it will be silent after dark, else it'll have to be resited, I can't have it interfering with my Chakras can I ?
At the point of BB1230 startup, the engine battery was low at 12.09 v and the MPPT load voltage was at 13.68.
The 12.09 v represents 50% discharge, very low. The engine battery is suspect anyway and is designated for replacement.
There is no sunshine today - it's dull an gloomy, the solar unit is only able to glean between 3 an 6 Amps which is also very low.
The BB1230 is cutting in an charging the engine battery until the LOAD terminals voltage cuts out, then it enters sleep mode until the source is restored.
I expect this as there are 2 conditions which are around the lower limits of the BB1230 and which I consider unusual and should not exist when I complete all of my upgrades and get into the sunshine.
A) The engine battery performance is very low and needs to be replaced
B) The MPPT LOAD output is around 12.6 when actually under load - ie when the BB1230 is working.
Add to that is the fact that I'm not getting any sunshine and my solar system can't give the BB1230 enough to keep it in charge mode for long.
The BB1230 has a function that they call SVEM - Stationary Vehicle Engagement Mode, which if configured in, will allow the unit to operate from lower input voltages, 13.1V and disengage at 13.0V, this is working much the same way as above, while the BB1230 actually ignites at 12.6V, more in line with the LOAD terminals.
The reason that the LOAD switches in and out is that I am using the habitation equipment, which is depleting the LBs and the MPPT box is giving the priority to the LBs, as I expect, once the LBs are full, it switches the LOAD on which then activates the BB1230 - perfect !
The solar system is operating, overall, at it's lowest threshold, given there is little sunshine to drive it right now.
But, the BB1230 has now charged the engine battery to 13.8V, gleaned from the meagre amount of sunshine it has had to work with.
The LBs are at 95% right now, as they are in use and not getting much charge.
All of the above is as I expected, I anticipate that with a replacement engine battery and plenty of sunshine, all of my batteries will be fully charged easily by the solar system.
I'll be monitoring the system closely over the next few days while hoping for some sunshine.
james
The Sterling BB1230 is now in service.
I've hung it in the main cabin (which I think I'm going to regret) and temporarily wired it up between the MPPT controller and the engine battery.
It started up as soon as I put in the fuses.
Reason that I'll regret this choice is that the BB1230 is LOUD, both visually and it has a noisy fan.
As it is our first night together, I am hoping it will be silent after dark, else it'll have to be resited, I can't have it interfering with my Chakras can I ?
At the point of BB1230 startup, the engine battery was low at 12.09 v and the MPPT load voltage was at 13.68.
The 12.09 v represents 50% discharge, very low. The engine battery is suspect anyway and is designated for replacement.
There is no sunshine today - it's dull an gloomy, the solar unit is only able to glean between 3 an 6 Amps which is also very low.
The BB1230 is cutting in an charging the engine battery until the LOAD terminals voltage cuts out, then it enters sleep mode until the source is restored.
I expect this as there are 2 conditions which are around the lower limits of the BB1230 and which I consider unusual and should not exist when I complete all of my upgrades and get into the sunshine.
A) The engine battery performance is very low and needs to be replaced
B) The MPPT LOAD output is around 12.6 when actually under load - ie when the BB1230 is working.
Add to that is the fact that I'm not getting any sunshine and my solar system can't give the BB1230 enough to keep it in charge mode for long.
The BB1230 has a function that they call SVEM - Stationary Vehicle Engagement Mode, which if configured in, will allow the unit to operate from lower input voltages, 13.1V and disengage at 13.0V, this is working much the same way as above, while the BB1230 actually ignites at 12.6V, more in line with the LOAD terminals.
The reason that the LOAD switches in and out is that I am using the habitation equipment, which is depleting the LBs and the MPPT box is giving the priority to the LBs, as I expect, once the LBs are full, it switches the LOAD on which then activates the BB1230 - perfect !
The solar system is operating, overall, at it's lowest threshold, given there is little sunshine to drive it right now.
But, the BB1230 has now charged the engine battery to 13.8V, gleaned from the meagre amount of sunshine it has had to work with.
The LBs are at 95% right now, as they are in use and not getting much charge.
All of the above is as I expected, I anticipate that with a replacement engine battery and plenty of sunshine, all of my batteries will be fully charged easily by the solar system.
I'll be monitoring the system closely over the next few days while hoping for some sunshine.
james
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wildebus
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Sounds positive there.
Are you going to get a like-for-like swap of the starter battery or upgrade in any way?
In terms of location of the B2B, It sounds like you are connecting direct to the starter battery. Given the output is relatively low, is there a more convenient connection you could use to make it easier to hide it? (as an example, my temporary starter battery connection for the mains charger while I still had the knackered battery fitted was actually the courtesy light cable! bit lightweight for sure, but it did the job for the time needed and was fused above the output I set on the charger)
Ref your connection to the LOAD terminal - which will of course only charge when they are active, which is your plan of course, I wonder from reading your last post if there would be any value in having an "emergency" setup if you are parked up with not much excess solar around but wanted/needed to give the Starter Battery a little boost anyway?
Thinking maybe if you used a standard 5-Pin 40A Relay; connected Pin 30 to the B2B; Pin 87a to the MPPT load +ve out; and Pin 87 to the MPPT standard +ve out.
Then by default you would have the B2B on the Load due to the Pin87a (NC), and you could connect Pin 85 (or 86 - never remember which is meant to be the control one!) to a switch and flick it on to override the input and use Pin 87 (NO) for those rare/random occasions and no rewiring required whatsover.
This would also - if appropriate - give you the ability and option to use the B2B to charge the starter battery when Hooked up should the Sterling unit be technically better than the built-in charger in the Hymer? (I don't know much about this EBL setup, but I know many standard battery chargers in some MHs are very poor compared to current Smart Chargers)
Maybe over-egging the setup, but adds a nice bit of flexibility at little extra expense or work.
Are you going to get a like-for-like swap of the starter battery or upgrade in any way?
In terms of location of the B2B, It sounds like you are connecting direct to the starter battery. Given the output is relatively low, is there a more convenient connection you could use to make it easier to hide it? (as an example, my temporary starter battery connection for the mains charger while I still had the knackered battery fitted was actually the courtesy light cable! bit lightweight for sure, but it did the job for the time needed and was fused above the output I set on the charger)
Ref your connection to the LOAD terminal - which will of course only charge when they are active, which is your plan of course, I wonder from reading your last post if there would be any value in having an "emergency" setup if you are parked up with not much excess solar around but wanted/needed to give the Starter Battery a little boost anyway?
Thinking maybe if you used a standard 5-Pin 40A Relay; connected Pin 30 to the B2B; Pin 87a to the MPPT load +ve out; and Pin 87 to the MPPT standard +ve out.
Then by default you would have the B2B on the Load due to the Pin87a (NC), and you could connect Pin 85 (or 86 - never remember which is meant to be the control one!) to a switch and flick it on to override the input and use Pin 87 (NO) for those rare/random occasions and no rewiring required whatsover.
This would also - if appropriate - give you the ability and option to use the B2B to charge the starter battery when Hooked up should the Sterling unit be technically better than the built-in charger in the Hymer? (I don't know much about this EBL setup, but I know many standard battery chargers in some MHs are very poor compared to current Smart Chargers)
Maybe over-egging the setup, but adds a nice bit of flexibility at little extra expense or work.
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The replacement engine battery will just be a straight replacement with a decent brand for reliability, it's got a varta in at the moment.
I've run a 25A cable pair through the engine bay bulkhead which is the charging lead, this will route under the driver's door step an up some trunking to the solar box.
The EBL already manages both sets of batteries when driving and on 220v/EHU so I won't need to duplicate this function.
The EBL ignores the engine battery if solar is connected into it, hence the need for the BB1230, which by-passes the EBL and connects directly to the engine batteries.
Your suggestion regarding the relay, is a good idea as a on/off switch between the load terminals and the BB1230 input, so that I can ensure silence or simply switch it off, if required.
As I was typing I got a few minutes of bright sunshine fall over me and the MPPT box jumped to 12Amps out, began charging the LBs and also switched in the load, which then fired up the BB1230.
The system looks like it will operate flawlessly.
Engine battery currently at 14V.
The objective was to have the solar panels manage both LBs & EB, this looks like the objective has been met, time will tell if they are exceeed - I've always had a tendancy to over-deliver.
But the entire thing is based on having enough sunshine of course.
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update at the close of day
It's dusk here on the w/sussex coast and the last of today's light is almost gone.
As normal, this is when the solar charging system sleeps.
The BM1230 has also gone to sleep and is silent.
The engine and leisure batteries are at 100% charge.
I fitted and connected the BM1230 around midday today and gave it a 50% depleted, shagged out battery to sort out.
The afternoon was spent watching the system like a new parent.
The Victron MPPT controller and the Sterling BB1230 have spent the afternoon chatting to each other, while sharing the available solar power between themselves and each of the Aux and engine batteries.
The result is both Aux & Engine batteries are ending the day in a fully charged state.
This is half a day of dull greyness with a couple of short sunny spells.
I have to give credit to the Victron kit, the controller and aux batteries are superb and the Sterling bb1230 seems to be very efficient.
This is only half a day, I'll be keeping an eye on it over the next day or so, but I am very impressed so far.
Made I right chuffed Jeffro
james
It's dusk here on the w/sussex coast and the last of today's light is almost gone.
As normal, this is when the solar charging system sleeps.
The BM1230 has also gone to sleep and is silent.
The engine and leisure batteries are at 100% charge.
I fitted and connected the BM1230 around midday today and gave it a 50% depleted, shagged out battery to sort out.
The afternoon was spent watching the system like a new parent.
The Victron MPPT controller and the Sterling BB1230 have spent the afternoon chatting to each other, while sharing the available solar power between themselves and each of the Aux and engine batteries.
The result is both Aux & Engine batteries are ending the day in a fully charged state.
This is half a day of dull greyness with a couple of short sunny spells.
I have to give credit to the Victron kit, the controller and aux batteries are superb and the Sterling bb1230 seems to be very efficient.
This is only half a day, I'll be keeping an eye on it over the next day or so, but I am very impressed so far.
Made I right chuffed Jeffro
james
wildebus
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You've mentioned the B2B noise a few times. Is it a very noisy bit of kit then? Given it has a good IP rating is it worth fitting in the engine bay or external locker to get it out your living area? (I guess on the plus side, it will always be quiet overnight )
Ref the Victron Kit ... it does seem to extract power well. Just looked at my info and the MPPT controller is going to sleep at 10PM and waking up again at 4AM at the moment (quite a bit north of you of course). not a massive amount of power harvested at the those times, but a good indication.
)Ref the Victron Kit ... it does seem to extract power well. Just looked at my info and the MPPT controller is going to sleep at 10PM and waking up again at 4AM at the moment (quite a bit north of you of course). not a massive amount of power harvested at the those times, but a good indication.
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Deleted member 62288
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You've mentioned the B2B noise a few times. Is it a very noisy bit of kit then? Given it has a good IP rating is it worth fitting in the engine bay or external locker to get it out your living area? (I guess on the plus side, it will always be quiet overnight
Ref the Victron Kit ... it does seem to extract power well. Just looked at my info and the MPPT controller is going to sleep at 10PM and waking up again at 4AM at the moment (quite a bit north of you of course). not a massive amount of power harvested at the those times, but a good indication.
The Sterling has a fan inside somewhere that is about as loud as a desktop computer, it doesn't activate always, I've watched the BB1230 light up and begin charging without the fan, which kicks in intermittently.
If I had another place to install the BB1230, out of sight, I would have gone for it, however, the front panel leds do provide useful info so placing it in the engine compartment will lose you this feedback. It can be installed with a remote monitor, which will provide the owner with real-time info, but in my case, I'm getting the battery voltage via the BM1, which is enough info for my needs.
An unscientific guess is that when it's input voltage is at or near it lowest operating threshold and it has up lift the output voltage to meet the battery needs, it gets warm and the fan kicks in.
Yesterday the fan was on/off at random times, all afternoon. The battery it is charging was 50% down and is suspect anyway.
However, as I mentioned above, all batteries ended the day fully topped up.
Overnight was silent, as expected and so far, this morning, there is not enough sunshine to switch the load terminals on.
One extra bonus for me is that I have now configured the NASA BM1 monitor to also watch the Starter battery, so I have both batteries' status available on one screen. As I have installed the BB1230 adjacent to the MPPT controller and BM1, it was just a short length of cable between the BB1230 and the BM1 to achieve this.
Weather forecast for this area is another grey day so I won't get much opportunity to have it working as hard as it could me.
I'm confident that this configuration will meet all of my needs while off-grid.
james
wildebus
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Noise can be a major annoyance can't it, even when not that pronounced.
I cannot sleep with a ticking clock for example. And my camper is fitted with a Tachometer that is faulty and sounds like a .... Yup
Plus it is probably a battery drain. I have 1 of 3 cables that power it, but if I seperate them to find which, I cannot reconnect to the battery again as the post stud is too short for extra connector rings.
The sound aspect is one reason why I chose Victron kit - it is physically much larger than equivalents (in power rating terms) as they have focussed on passive cooling with heatsinks rather than active cooling with fans. So my inverter is on 24/7 but is totally silent except for an overpower 'thud' when the fridge kicks in. I am in two minds about getting a more powerful one just to avoid that but talking hundreds of pounds and no practical/technical requirement to do so.
The Fridge itself is totally silent as well. Many people seem to have an issue with compressor fridge noise but I hear nothing and the only sound is if I turn the 4" fan on screwed to the back for cooling.
Maybe you could stick the B2B in some insulation to cut the noise but enough ventilation?
I cannot sleep with a ticking clock for example. And my camper is fitted with a Tachometer that is faulty and sounds like a .... Yup
Plus it is probably a battery drain. I have 1 of 3 cables that power it, but if I seperate them to find which, I cannot reconnect to the battery again as the post stud is too short for extra connector rings.
The sound aspect is one reason why I chose Victron kit - it is physically much larger than equivalents (in power rating terms) as they have focussed on passive cooling with heatsinks rather than active cooling with fans. So my inverter is on 24/7 but is totally silent except for an overpower 'thud' when the fridge kicks in. I am in two minds about getting a more powerful one just to avoid that but talking hundreds of pounds and no practical/technical requirement to do so.
The Fridge itself is totally silent as well. Many people seem to have an issue with compressor fridge noise but I hear nothing and the only sound is if I turn the 4" fan on screwed to the back for cooling.
Maybe you could stick the B2B in some insulation to cut the noise but enough ventilation?
wildebus
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Test for what?
I'm talking about 4/6mm cables from the battery and so permanent live. And all 4 cables are connected together with a single crimped ring connector so electrically connected.
talking this nest of cabling here
LT-Battery-12V by David, on Flickr
(and as you can see, there is no stud visible left, so can't risk ANOTHER two connecters on top!)
So while I appreciate the reply and suggestion, can't see how it will help, sorry.
(I don't want to take the dash apart and will just stick a resettable breaker on the relevant source feed to remove power - it will loose power to the dash generally, but the tachos are designed to be tamperproof and would do the same if power removed specifically from the Tacho I was advised by a Tacho removal specialist)
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BB1230 active on a cliudy day
Here is a picture of the BB1230 struggling to work on a grey and cloudy day.
The other equipment is the Victron MPPT controller (old/new stock) from around 2012.
The NASA BM1 battery monitor
Sterling BB1230 DC - DC charger.
I am just off to Toolstation to get some more trunking to hide the cabling.
Here is a picture of the BB1230 struggling to work on a grey and cloudy day.
The other equipment is the Victron MPPT controller (old/new stock) from around 2012.
The NASA BM1 battery monitor
Sterling BB1230 DC - DC charger.
I am just off to Toolstation to get some more trunking to hide the cabling.