Scarborough traders complain

[runnach]

Doh, I just sent my reasoned suggestion (including probable income estimate & cost of policing) to the e-mail address you gave earlier! Kindly post the new address & I will forward her a copy too. Below is the text of what I sent FYI, I trust you will agree it is not abusive.

sorry I re read ...the post apologise

 

[Smaug]

First paragraph you shot yourself in the foot......lines of motorhomes are not attractive...and nothing in your letter would persuade me to reconsider the situation..

As a resident of Scarborough filey to be precise when I can be bothered
Channa

So what are you doing to help - or do you just pee on the efforts of others?

TBH I am damn unlikely to ever go anywhere near Scarborough, but I can see the benefit of responding to banning activities as they could ultimately affect us all, everywhere. I'm surprised you don't see the benefit of starting a letter (or conversation) by empathising before offering positive criticism. But then your comment above is entirely negative, so perhaps that's the best you can offer.

 

[Channa]

So what are you doing to help - or do you just pee on the efforts of others?

TBH I am damn unlikely to ever go anywhere near Scarborough, but I can see the benefit of responding to banning activities as they could ultimately affect us all, everywhere. I'm surprised you don't see the benefit of starting a letter (or conversation) by empathising before offering positive criticism. But then your comment above is entirely negative, so perhaps that's the best you can offer.

Firstly possibly due to time warp......I did apologise having mis interpreted your post.

What have I done to address Scarborough council...

Have a traul through the posts ...you will find several e mails and letters to the council and local press.

Regards

Channa

 

[canalwheeler]

Am I about the only one here who doesn't like Scarborough anyway?

i'd much rather be up in the Wolds somewhere quiet.

Tone

 

[maureenandtom]

I think that's a pretty good attempt. Truly I don't know who it should now be sent to and quite probably Cllr Lawn is the best bet. He's the chairman of the committee making the recommendations and the Cabinet Member will, probably, be very dependent on his recommendations. But, you makes your choice and lives with it! Just because you write to one donesn't mean you can't write to another. Somewhere in this thread I provided a list of all the committee members. Post 175.

The Cabinet Member is Councillor Penny Marsden and I don't know her email address but a good guess is Cllr.Penny.Marsden@scarborough.gov.uk

I made similar calculations to yours, maybe a bit more detailed, and I sent them to all the members of the committee and a few more besides. My effort was aimed at making the council aware that we are a resource who should be courted as an attractive asset rather than an evil who needs to be tolerated. You're right about the lines of campervans not being attractive and that forms a big part of the residents' complaints. The council think that providing an Aire will cure that problem for them. I think so too. Not all, but in my opinion, most, wild campers will use an Aire if it is attractive to them and pricing is a part of that attraction.

TBear made some good arguments. A copy of them is in Post 215.

At the very least, this Council is making an effort to provide an Aire on the continental model. I think they have a half way chance of it being successful and if they can just get the pricing right they have a good chance of it being successful.

Councils seem to be obsessed with control. They even use the words "Civil Enforcement" and it must be hard for them to think like the businessmen they probably are in civilian life and they perhaps find it difficult to think of themselves selling a product - attracting business.

You can now count yourself as one of those making an effort - though those who stand on the sidelines and criticise can be useful too.

Sort of. I suppose. Maddening a lot of the time though.

 

[maureenandtom]

Am I about the only one here who doesn't like Scarborough anyway?

i'd much rather be up in the Wolds somewhere quiet.

Tone

Yes, I'm sure you would. But does that mean you want to see councils not providing Aires? You might want to use one some day. Empty the loo maybe? Get some water perhaps? Park up once in a while with like-minded people?

You wouldn't want to stop others having them, would you? Just because you're not bothered about one in Scarborough? You might love having one somewhere else and one here could be used as an example, maybe? Be a pity if there wasn't one anywhere just because you're not bothered about having one here.

 

[scenictraveller]

i dont camp in towns/citys or villages loch etive is an exception due to the fact ur 2 miles from the town,
but mostly wont go near one,will buy supplies fuel food beer but wont stay there.

i thought wildcamping was about senery not built up areas and parking next to a pay and display sign,

i think most of you are missing the point and only have yourselfs to blame.

you say you pay 30k plus for a motorhome and think its ur right to park it where you want.

scarbrough is a town i went to in the 90s not been back since,and have no reason to go there.

linconshire was there last year was made to feel as welcome as afart in a space suit.

my point wild means wild not seasidy towns that have the hussle and bussle of tourists.

 

[Channa]

I promised myself I but I relent
Scarborough is a beautiful area that extends well beyond the sea front and battleships in peasholm park...visit hackness...burniston cloughton..a different vista and 25 min from fish and chips or a jaconellisl ice cream
Hang on that's spending money in Scarborough

I am convinced Scarborough council see this aire has a solution to what is a perceived and in some ways actual problem in the resort.

I see no evidence that they are identifying an opportunity to gain incremental income for their resort and electorate

So who do I speak to e mail....on the basis I have a Scarborough address maybe take note..

Channa

 

[Robmac]

I don't think anybody on the forum is arrogant enough to say that they will pay 30k for a Motorhome and demand that they can stay where they want to.

 

[maureenandtom]

I promised myself I but I relent
Scarborough is a beautiful area that extends well beyond the sea front and battleships in peasholm park...visit hackness...burniston cloughton..a different vista and 25 min from fish and chips or a jaconellisl ice cream
Hang on that's spending money in Scarborough

I am convinced Scarborough council see this aire has a solution to what is a perceived and in some ways actual problem in the resort.

I see no evidence that they are identifying an opportunity to gain incremental income for their resort and electorate

So who do I speak to e mail....on the basis I have a Scarborough address maybe take note..

Channa

I suppose it should really be to whoever is your local councillor but Councillor Lawn is probably a good bet. For myself I'd blanket the whole committee - they're in Post 215, I think. You're right, there is no evidence that they've taken on board that money is to be made from us. But that was my main thrust and it would be good tell them again. I made my calculations based mainly on what I spend but I looked at, for example, *****'s accounts when he published them and if I knew you'd put your figures in a post anywhere, I'd have used yours too. I also looked at the numbers of vans residents were complaining about and multiplied them out. It added up to a substantial sum over a year.

I see it's starred out the name. Some people have published their trip expenses and I used them to modify my own.

 

[maureenandtom]

i dont camp in towns/citys or villages loch etive is an exception due to the fact ur 2 miles from the town,
but mostly wont go near one,will buy supplies fuel food beer but wont stay there.

i thought wildcamping was about senery not built up areas and parking next to a pay and display sign,

i think most of you are missing the point and only have yourselfs to blame.

you say you pay 30k plus for a motorhome and think its ur right to park it where you want.

scarbrough is a town i went to in the 90s not been back since,and have no reason to go there.

linconshire was there last year was made to feel as welcome as afart in a space suit.

my point wild means wild not seasidy towns that have the hussle and bussle of tourists.

Pretty well the same as I replied to Tone. You want them not to provide an Aire? Not any council? Not anywhere?

Yes, I'm sure you would. But does that mean you want to see councils not providing Aires? You might want to use one some day. Empty the loo maybe? Get some water perhaps? Park up once in a while with like-minded people?

You wouldn't want to stop others having them, would you? Just because you're not bothered about one in Scarborough? You might love having one somewhere else and one here could be used as an example, maybe? Be a pity if there wasn't one anywhere just because you're not bothered about having one here.

 

[Channa]

We are dealing with people who feel threatened by past behaviour of some and a council who either don't or choose to understand incremental income.

A lot of vans will visit sites...never wilded and the concept doesn't appeal.

But there is a significant body of persons who do want to wild.
To be honest this is not an aire a solution to a perceived problem...perhaps heads below the parapets in hindsight was best but we now have a situation to deal with
France has Aires but it is possible to deviate away do your thing without hinderhence..
Scarborough council it seems are of the idea one place to park up everywhere else out of bounds.

That is a concern.

And manipulation down the line for a patch by the **** farm in scalby is a bigger one

I don't share your optimism, on the basis as I have stated the council see a resident problem aggrieved people not an opportunity to attract visitors who chose not to use sites.

A question worth asking is how irritant in law abiding have motorhomets been according to nyorks police records for the area.

Channa

 

[Deleted member 2636]

Not sure if this is stated as a fact or speculation...but this was a problem for years in Torquay where the power of the hotel industry in guiding council policy was immense

I'm would not be surprised given the Rates they would pay

 

[bopper]

Just letting you see the e-mail from Scarborough Council in response to my complaint.




I note your comments regarding the charges proposed for motorhomes on Council Car Parks. I should inform you that the decision to charge £10 has been referred back to our parking working group which will meet on 12th July 2012. I will inform you of the outcome of the review after this date.



Yours Sincerely



Jane Wilson



Deputy Parking Manager

Scarborough Borough Council

Tel (01723) 383582

 

[Smaug]

I trust the referal back will include a reference to our comments, or at least the points we made! Although past experience of working in a council office does not fill me with confidence! At least you got a reply which is more than I have.

 

[groyne]

At least you got a reply which is more than I have.

Over 2 weeks since I Emailed them and not even an acknowlegement.

Dear Mr Clark,

having read the councils proposals on Motor caravan parking,

http://democracy.scarborough.gov.uk/documents/s43629/12332%20-%20Motorhomes%20-%2020120627.pdf

could you tell me how this affects those of us who drive MotorCaravans and who park in these areas during the proposed Curfew hours but are not stopping overnight. I have fished (night time) and surfed (early morning) for years in the area between Sandsend Carpark and Whitby West pier, but now because of my vehicle of choice it looks like my hobbies in this area will be curtailed.

Also as my MotorCaravan is a modified Citroen Relay, will commercial vehicles of similar ike, such as Ford Transits, Mercedes Sprinters etc, also be barred from parking overnight?

Regards,

 

[maureenandtom]

I think this is encouraging.

The distinct impression was that this £10 charge was a done deal. If it has been referred back to the original committee then this can only be in response to pressure from somewhere - and that is probably us.

 

[Smaug]

I think this is encouraging.

The distinct impression was that this £10 charge was a done deal. If it has been referred back to the original committee then this can only be in response to pressure from somewhere - and that is probably us.

I have to say I don't normally associate common sense with Local Councils, but the simple fact that they are trying to charge more for a bare car park than is normally charged for a nice field with water & Chem emptying is hard to ignore. Lets just hope that they aren't as daft & arrogant as usual.

It's always annoying that these things are always decided behind closed doors. So much for real democracy!

 

[John H]

It's always annoying that these things are always decided behind closed doors. So much for real democracy!

All council meetings are open to the public except for confidential issues, which are usually put to the end of the agenda and the public asked to leave. Nonetheless, I share your scepticism about the outcome of this particular meeting.

 

[fairytooth]

The idea that we are 'abusing the system' by not making use of their empty hotel rooms or crabby caravan sites in favour of our chosen leisure pursuit is truly laughable. 'The system' is obviously a comfy closed shop where competition, diversity & freedom of choice are forbidden words.

Then again, part of me hopes they carry out their threat and lose even more business by excluding us.