Scarborough traders complain

[Pollik]

we do however need to more discreet if we wish to continue our lifestyle

I find the difference in attitudes between the UK and elsewhere very noticeable, but that might have to do with the fact that our needs/wants are more nearly met in Europe, whereas in the UK we seem to have a prohibition mentality.

Instead of making us out to be trouble makers, I am sure that they would benefit from treating us as a tourist resource. If they don't want us on Marine Parade, that is fine, but point us to/provide us with an area where we and our money would be welcome. Limit the staying times, if you want. Use the carrot of water and waste to attract us to the right spot.

One has to wonder if any of these jobsworths have a motorhome or have been abroad. They seem to have a very insular outlook. I read a news item earlier about rubbish bin collections: "‎"“Everyone has a right to their own bin. These communal bins may work on the Continent but people will not stand for it here.”" Says it all, really.





Polly

 

[matthew123]

Give and take

I have just returned from 3 very enjoyable days in Pembrokeshire. These were enjoyable because we explained to the local landlords and traders that we wanted to spend our money in their pubs and shops. In return they advised us where to wild camp in their villages. Without this advice it would have meant a campsite in the middle of nowhere unable to put our money back into the local economy.As a result the locals make their money and we have a good night out. Long may this continue. Granted the campsite would have cashed in but 25 to 30 quid per night to sleep in a bare field is not on. As mentioned in many threads we too try to support local trade.. Rather than complain we were encouraged to stay and spend our money. This cannot be done from a campsite a few miles away.

 

[kimbowbill]

my email to SBC usual avoidance of answers

I thought i would share councillor watson's response to my email i sent yesterday

this is mine

Dear Mr Watson

Could you please explain to me why Scarborough is so 'anti motorhome'

There is alot of talk about traders hating us and want us banned, i can assure you sir, this would be a real tragedy to trade, i visit 10 or 11 times per year, even in winter, as do many of my friends, their friends and so on, i always come back home and tell everyone how lovely it is, how clean, how convenient for everything, i buy fish & chips, curry, pizza, fill up with fuel, have a drink, have breakfast in the Crown Carvery every morning, buy all my shopping at lidl,and take all my rubbish home, the only thing i dont do is park on a campsite.As an example Cayton bay is £38 per night, this is absolutley ridiculous price, if i stayed on there i would'nt have any money left to spend elsewhere, I stay overnight in a car park and pay the fee of £5, but as you know this is not permitted, can you explain why.

The car parks are empty at night time, except for the odd joyrider, who ususally drives off if they see a motorhome, people will always use camspites but i choose not too, is there anything in your future plans to welcome motorhomes and if so what.

Why can't we park in the car parks legally overnight and move off by 8 in the morning? i reckon us motorhomers spend more than the average daytrippers who only come when its sunny.

Can you not adopt a 'French' attitude and provide Aires? this would encourage more people from abroad.

I fear my days are numbered with Scarborough and so so many other motorhomers are looking elsewhere to enjoy the freedom of motorhoming,

yours

Miss Morris​

...................................................................................................................

this his is resopnse, typical, not even answered any of my questions

Dear Miss Morris

I don't think that its only Scarborough that have this attitude but our main concern is those who are using the Marine Drive as a camp site. not only is it making the area look untidy it is taking money away from Licensed Sites which could lead to shortage of proper areas. We are not anti motorhomes in general we are anti motorhomes in the wrong place.

Regards,

Brian F. Watson.

...........................................................................................................................................................................................

if anyone wants to email me their points to put accross to councillor Watson I am happy to do so, i one email, it would be useful to put forward some views about other countries, i can't speak as i have not experienced them, might give him some ideas on future plans?? mmm perhaps not, my eamil address is jenny.kimba@blueyonder.co.uk

 

[Pollik]

We do really need some kind of motorhome alliance (of the existing groups) to represent us as a whole. And it needs to be run by people who know their way around dealing with local authorities and can be persuasive, perhaps starting with somewhere that is more likely to listen.

I am not even sure where to begin on something like this - perhaps with highways department.

Anyway, I would reply to Mr Councillor something like this:

Forgive me for saying so, but your response seems to ignore the benefits that motorhomes bring to Scunthorpe.

Perhaps I could make a few observations:

- You say that motorhomes are camped on Marine Drive. I would say that the motorhomes are parked. If the owners were staying in a hotel, the vans would be parked and if the owners were sleeping on board, the vans are still parked. They would be camping if they put out an awning, or got the barbecue out or generally earmarked space outside the van for their personal use.

- You say that the motorhomes are “untidy”. Would you say that about, say Transit vans, or is it just motorhomes.

- Very many motorhomes only require somewhere to park. They neither want nor need the 'extras' provided by campsites which are expensive even by Italian standards. I would not pay £38 to park my car overnight and I will not pay £38 to park my van overnight.

- Most motorhomers have a fixed budget available to spend. I would far rather spread that money around traders in the town and I rather think that the traders would rather I did that, too.

- The attitude taken by Scarborough contrasts starkly with attitudes in the rest of Europe, particularly France, where there are more than 8,000 Aires de service. These are places where motorhomes are positively welcomed. Almost all of them provide fresh water and somewhere to empty the toilet. A good number provide electric hookup. Most make a small charge for the water and electricity. About a third of these aires are completely free to use. Hardly any charge more than €5.00 per night. As result, even in February in villages which have no special attractions, it is common to see 5 or more motorhomes. That is 10 people who need feeding and who spend in local shops. By contrast, Scunthorpe is seeking to exclude “dozens” (per Yorkshire Post) of motorhome, by employing what does look very much like an anti-motorhome policy. I do wonder which traders are doing the complaining – we may not contribute to hotels and campsites, but we do contribute to other traders who, I don't suppose, will have written in support of motorhomes. Has the council actually done any research and canvassed the town centre traders to see what they think of the money that motorhomes can bring?

- A report in the Yorkshire Post stated that dozens of motorhomes are seen in the area. Let us assume 2 dozen, or 24 vans, say 50 people. If we assume a very modest spend of £10 per head, then that is £500 revenue per night or £3,500 per week for the traders of Scunthorpe without any outlay on their part. That strikes me as a very good deal. If motorhomes are banned, that money will be lost to Scunthorpe. That is the choice that Scunthorpe would be making.

If you are unable or unwilling to help, perhaps you would be good enough to tell who I should be discussing my concerns with?

Polly

 

[Tbear]

By misquoting my comments [ More than 1 person used hyperbole ] & associating me with implications that I did not make.[ I did not remotely imply the rest of this community brains had turned to mush]

I suggest we leave it at that.

Dezi

Very true old UN, Unfortunately when we get a serious topic, such as this, & contributors start using hyperbole such as – ripped off/bled dry/ money grabbers etc then you realise that a rational conversation is unlikely to follow.

Is a direct quote, not a misquote and it sounds as close to being a slur on at least most of the members of this site as I have ever seen.

You used this post only as an example, so referred to others as well which may well only contain only one use of hyperbole.

Before you accuse others of being inarticulate may I suggest you read your own posts first.

I would be happy to leave it at that and get on with the more friendly business of this site

Richard

 

[Tbear]

I thought i would share councillor watson's response to my email i sent yesterday

this is mine

Dear Mr Watson

Could you please explain to me why Scarborough is so 'anti motorhome'

There is alot of talk about traders hating us and want us banned, i can assure you sir, this would be a real tragedy to trade, i visit 10 or 11 times per year, even in winter, as do many of my friends, their friends and so on, i always come back home and tell everyone how lovely it is, how clean, how convenient for everything, i buy fish & chips, curry, pizza, fill up with fuel, have a drink, have breakfast in the Crown Carvery every morning, buy all my shopping at lidl,and take all my rubbish home, the only thing i dont do is park on a campsite.As an example Cayton bay is £38 per night, this is absolutley ridiculous price, if i stayed on there i would'nt have any money left to spend elsewhere, I stay overnight in a car park and pay the fee of £5, but as you know this is not permitted, can you explain why.

The car parks are empty at night time, except for the odd joyrider, who ususally drives off if they see a motorhome, people will always use camspites but i choose not too, is there anything in your future plans to welcome motorhomes and if so what.

Why can't we park in the car parks legally overnight and move off by 8 in the morning? i reckon us motorhomers spend more than the average daytrippers who only come when its sunny.

Can you not adopt a 'French' attitude and provide Aires? this would encourage more people from abroad.

I fear my days are numbered with Scarborough and so so many other motorhomers are looking elsewhere to enjoy the freedom of motorhoming,

yours

Miss Morris​

...................................................................................................................

this his is resopnse, typical, not even answered any of my questions

Dear Miss Morris

I don't think that its only Scarborough that have this attitude but our main concern is those who are using the Marine Drive as a camp site. not only is it making the area look untidy it is taking money away from Licensed Sites which could lead to shortage of proper areas. We are not anti motorhomes in general we are anti motorhomes in the wrong place.

Regards,

Brian F. Watson.

...........................................................................................................................................................................................

if anyone wants to email me their points to put accross to councillor Watson I am happy to do so, i one email, it would be useful to put forward some views about other countries, i can't speak as i have not experienced them, might give him some ideas on future plans?? mmm perhaps not, my eamil address is jenny.kimba@blueyonder.co.uk

Well done a smashing email. If more people bothered to send the councillors such emails which they had to reply to then just maybe one or two might listen. Why dont you send Polly's reply it is well thought out and to the point.
Sorry but I cannot help with the motorhoming abroad as we are off on our very first trip to France at the end of the month. I hope to do a lot of research while I am there to have another go at my local council again.

Might be some info for you on my old thread English Aires

Richard

 

[kimbowbill]

Well done a smashing email. If more people bothered to send the councillors such emails which they had to reply to then just maybe one or two might listen. Why dont you send Polly's reply it is well thought out and to the point.
Sorry but I cannot help with the motorhoming abroad as we are off on our very first trip to France at the end of the month. I hope to do a lot of research while I am there to have another go at my local council again.

Might be some info for you on my old thread English Aires

Richard

Hi richard, yes i will send Polly's email, its very good, i will post you his reply, if he struggled to answer my basic mail, god knows what he will do when he see's Pollys, he may resign lol

 

[kimbowbill]

We do really need some kind of motorhome alliance (of the existing groups) to represent us as a whole. And it needs to be run by people who know their way around dealing with local authorities and can be persuasive, perhaps starting with somewhere that is more likely to listen.

I am not even sure where to begin on something like this - perhaps with highways department.

Anyway, I would reply to Mr Councillor something like this:




Polly

Hi Polly, this is great, i wll post tonight, wonder if he is able to answer it lol

 

[Deleted member 3802]

jenny please don't mix up scarboro with scunthope tho will you:scared::lol-053:

it may have been better if it had been scunthope that as only one cnut in it:rolleyes2:

 

[kimbowbill]

jenny please don't mix up scarboro with scunthope tho will you:scared::lol-053:

it may have been better if it had been scunthope that as only one cnut in it:rolleyes2:

I didnt put cuntthorpe, that was polly, you are very observant for an oldie, i think Phil should make you administror, bit like that Cassandra, :scared:

 

[Deleted member 3270]

I thought i would share councillor watson's response to my email i sent yesterday

this is mine

Dear Mr Watson

Could you please explain to me why Scarborough is so 'anti motorhome'

There is alot of talk about traders hating us and want us banned, i can assure you sir, this would be a real tragedy to trade, i visit 10 or 11 times per year, even in winter, as do many of my friends, their friends and so on, i always come back home and tell everyone how lovely it is, how clean, how convenient for everything, i buy fish & chips, curry, pizza, fill up with fuel, have a drink, have breakfast in the Crown Carvery every morning, buy all my shopping at lidl,and take all my rubbish home, the only thing i dont do is park on a campsite.As an example Cayton bay is £38 per night, this is absolutley ridiculous price, if i stayed on there i would'nt have any money left to spend elsewhere, I stay overnight in a car park and pay the fee of £5, but as you know this is not permitted, can you explain why.

The car parks are empty at night time, except for the odd joyrider, who ususally drives off if they see a motorhome, people will always use camspites but i choose not too, is there anything in your future plans to welcome motorhomes and if so what.

Why can't we park in the car parks legally overnight and move off by 8 in the morning? i reckon us motorhomers spend more than the average daytrippers who only come when its sunny.

Can you not adopt a 'French' attitude and provide Aires? this would encourage more people from abroad.

I fear my days are numbered with Scarborough and so so many other motorhomers are looking elsewhere to enjoy the freedom of motorhoming,

yours

Miss Morris​

...................................................................................................................

this his is resopnse, typical, not even answered any of my questions

Dear Miss Morris

I don't think that its only Scarborough that have this attitude but our main concern is those who are using the Marine Drive as a camp site. not only is it making the area look untidy it is taking money away from Licensed Sites which could lead to shortage of proper areas. We are not anti motorhomes in general we are anti motorhomes in the wrong place.

Regards,

Brian F. Watson.

...........................................................................................................................................................................................

if anyone wants to email me their points to put accross to councillor Watson I am happy to do so, i one email, it would be useful to put forward some views about other countries, i can't speak as i have not experienced them, might give him some ideas on future plans?? mmm perhaps not, my eamil address is jenny.kimba@blueyonder.co.uk

Hi Jen,We're 100% behind you!
My view is that if popular seaside resorts declare their space as a 'no go area for motorhomes' they will lose more than they think. We frequent Scarborough on a regular basis: we enjoy the sunshine and spend at various spots along the front, we enjoy the autumn when it is fresh and breezy - more of a reason for fish and chips, and winter too - have enjoyed bonfire night, Boxing day and New Years Eve! On all occasions, we shop and spend in the town. WE ALSO HAVE A RUBBISH BIN AND A TOILET! - we've seen many a car visitor, eat their takeaway, stop overnight in the car with curtains and bits of sheeting pinned against the windows so that they can sleep after a few beers. They disappear in the morning leaving takeaway wrappers, beer cans and a wet patch up against the wall behind their vehicle!
If caravan sites offered us a pitch on which to park for a fiver, then we might use them, we don't always need water: we have our own toilet, we don't leave litter, we don't want a dingy clubhouse and we don't want to park up on a site that's miles from the town. That's why we've spent thousands of pounds on a Motorhome! We just want to be independent people who like to visit places, park like the rest of our insurance and tax paying friends and then move on to the next place.
Don't forget, most of us enjoy our weekends away and have a couple of weeks in the summer, we are still paying our council tax, rates and mortgages/rents on our full time residences! Give us a break!
Regards Mrs Wilthebeast

 

[kimbowbill]

Hi Jen,We're 100% behind you!
My view is that if popular seaside resorts declare their space as a 'no go area for motorhomes' they will lose more than they think. We frequent Scarborough on a regular basis: we enjoy the sunshine and spend at various spots along the front, we enjoy the autumn when it is fresh and breezy - more of a reason for fish and chips, and winter too - have enjoyed bonfire night, Boxing day and New Years Eve! On all occasions, we shop and spend in the town. WE ALSO HAVE A RUBBISH BIN AND A TOILET! - we've seen many a car visitor, eat their takeaway, stop overnight in the car with curtains and bits of sheeting pinned against the windows so that they can sleep after a few beers. They disappear in the morning leaving takeaway wrappers, beer cans and a wet patch up against the wall behind their vehicle!
If caravan sites offered us a pitch on which to park for a fiver, then we might use them, we don't always need water: we have our own toilet, we don't leave litter, we don't want a dingy clubhouse and we don't want to park up on a site that's miles from the town. That's why we've spent thousands of pounds on a Motorhome! We just want to be independent people who like to visit places, park like the rest of our insurance and tax paying friends and then move on to the next place.
Don't forget, most of us enjoy our weekends away and have a couple of weeks in the summer, we are still paying our council tax, rates and mortgages/rents on our full time residences! Give us a break!
Regards Mrs Wilthebeast

Thank you, would you mind if i copied this and send it to Mr Watson?, i am hopeing to gather peoples views and send them all together, it seems the traders are getting their say and no one is speaking up for us, i dont think for one minute anything will change but we should at least put our point accross.

Jen xx

 

[Pollik]

jenny please don't mix up scarboro with scunthope tho will you:scared::lol-053:

it may have been better if it had been scunthope that as only one cnut in it:rolleyes2:

Oops!! I can't imagine why Scunthorpe came into my head - perhaps it was a Sandy Toksvig moment!!


Polly

 

[sparrks]

"not only is it making the area look untidy it is taking money away from Licensed Sites "

I think the councillors should be reminded exactly who is ripping off who.

The sites are ripping off the traders (and the MH owners)by charging £38 per night to park a motorhome. As pointed out it would be better to charge a nominal fee or nothing for the parking in unused carparks, leaving the occupants of the vehicles to spend the money locally.
Maybe as a condition you would have to leave by say 8:00.

Paul

 

[al n sal]

maybe we should all email this Councillor, maybe a set email, detailing all the points

 

[kimbowbill]

maybe we should all email this Councillor, maybe a set email, detailing all the points

Great, B & Q it, here is is email address

Cllr.Brian.Watson@scarborough.gov.uk

we really do need to make stance, there has been some really good points raised on here, we have our rant amongst ourselves but we need to demand something is done, we shouldn't be ignored or treat like lepars, its not fair, if you go on SBC website they have a tourism strategy, they talk about looking for new innotave ideas to boost tourism, campsite occupancy is running at something like 38% or 40% cant remember, well, i wonder why, at £38 a night, Reighton sands, is a staggering £40 per night in school hols, a basic car park facility would not suit everyone, they will still get their tourers, tents and MH's using sites cos most folk like to be on sites for the facilities and security, in this day and age we should have a choice.

Jen

 

[kimbowbill]

reply to Polly's email

I sent Polly's email last night and this is cllr watsons reply

I suggest you contact the Parking Manager Stuart Clarke at the Town Hall

that is just so funny, in other words, i dont want to deal with this, what a W****R

Jen

 

[kimbowbill]

my reply

This is my reply

Thank you, a contact email would have been useful, lets hope Mr Clarke is of more help, just for your information, Flyde Borough Council are proposing Aires type sites to overcome their problem, Your tourism strategy sets out plans to find new and innotive ideas to boost tourism, read their stratergy, heres the link

Fylde Borough Council • Motorhome parks plan to boost tourism



Miss Morris

 

[Pollik]

What an utter pillock.

I think here would be a good place to copy your emails with Mr Councillor to the Yorkshire Post. If it is anything like the Hereford Times, they will love it.





Polly

 

[Dezi]

I sent Polly's email last night and this is cllr watsons reply

I suggest you contact the Parking Manager Stuart Clarke at the Town Hall

that is just so funny, in other words, i dont want to deal with this, what a W****R

Jen

As expected the hyperbole & abuse continues on this thread with members making out that we are some persecuted minority. Minority, yes, persecuted,no.
Wildcamping is a very simple hobby – do not go where you are going to cause ill will. Do not expect unrealistic prices for staying over night in this Country.
Which raises the point – what is an unrealistic price?

The Motorcarravanners club has c.l. sites all over the UK, not £38 pn or £28 or £18, but many in the £5.£6.£7.£8 price band & guess what members still moan about being ripped off.

Such is life.

Dezi