Sad event.

[mariesnowgoose]

Read the article in question properly and consider its “newsworthyness”.

“The inquest heard it was not possible to say whether Mrs Hunt and her daughter would have survived had they been wearing seats belts.

Concluding the three died from multiple injuries following a road accident, assistant coroner Ms Norton said the evidence showed there were no defects to the motor home and Mr Hunt's driving was not a factor.”

I’m with Mark on this one - responsible choices; buses, tubes, trains, etc…?

This was a tragic accident, strong emphasis on both of those words.

Slow news day? or an “anything but the real news” day (which is pretty much every day these days)

 

[trevskoda]

You two never get on buses then, or a tube or train for that matter.

No not in 40 years.

 

[Fisherman]

Very sad. I really feel for the father/husband.

Personally, I wouldn't risk carrying passengers in any seats without seatbelts.

My thoughts entirely.

But my heart goes out to this family, it really does. This poor man has to live with this for the rest of his life.

My new van has 4 seatbelts, but is only a 3 berth, but you see vans that have less seatbelts than available berths. The most common being 4 seatbelts, 5 berths. The temptation to carry 5 when there are only 4 seatbelts will result in accidents like this. Another thing that concerns me are side facing seats with seatbelts. This should not be allowed.

If the father was fully aware what happens to the human body when a vehicle comes to a sudden stop I don’t this would have happened. But sadly there is a lot of ignorance out there. I once had a passenger who for stupid reasons refused to wear a seatbelt, and wanted to sit in the back of my car with his girlfriend. I insisted he travelled in the front. I then switched of the passenger air bag, as an unsecured passenger being propelled towards an activated seatbelt poses greater risk for them. Unsecured rear passengers pose a serious risk to those in front of them in a road accident.

For all the new safety features fitted to modern vehicles, the humble seatbelt is head and shoulders the most effective at saving lives, I lost count at the amount of people who would have died had it not been for their seatbelts. Another safety feature not given much thought, is the head rest. Older vehicles used to come without them, particularly in the rear seats. I sadly witnessed several fatalities from broken necks due to the lack of a head rest. When I watch old movies with cars without head rests I actually feel queasy watching them. My own son would probably have died had it not been for the fact he was wearing a seatbelt. The bruising on his shoulder and dislocated arm was far better than being hurled through his windscreen on to the road.

Anyone who travels without a seatbelt are not only risking their lives, but if travelling in the rear are risking the lives of their fellow passengers.

As for trains and buses two wrongs don’t make a right. In my honest opinion all forms of public transport should provide seatbelts, where practical. Sadly on a recent bus journey to Perth were seatbelts are provided, hardly anyone bothered to put them on. But generally speaking due to the size and weight of larger vehicles you are safer inside them without a seatbelt, than in smaller vehicles.

 

[Fisherman]

That's assuming you are going fast enough to make unsecured weights an issue.
Big statement, no data.

20 mph is fast enough Mark. You try hitting a lamppost or a tree at 20mph on your bike without a helmet. But the chances are this vehicle was travelling much faster. No one can definitively state that these people would have survived had they been wearing a seatbelt, but in my experience based in 31 years of attending such RTAs I have no doubt their chances of survival would have been been greatly improved had they been wearing seatbelts. I will leave the data to the statisticians, and can only report what I have sadly witnessed many times with my own eyes.

 

[wildebus]

My thoughts entirely.

But my heart goes out to this family, it really does. This poor man has to live with this for the rest of his life.

My new van has 4 seatbelts, but is only a 3 berth, but you see vans that have less seatbelts than available berths. The most common being 4 seatbelts, 5 berths. The temptation to carry 5 when there are only 4 seatbelts will result in accidents like this. Another thing that concerns me are side facing seats with seatbelts. This should not be allowed.

It is probably more common than uncommon to see more "quoted" berths than travel seats in a motorhome. But TBH I see no problem in that as how often to people use the full quota of sleeping positions?
Not least as the Motorhome definition of a double bed is laughable. Sometimes a bed 3'9" wide is a double!

Autotrail as a manufacturer possibly the main one where there are usually only the two cab seats for travelling even when there are 4 or even 6 sleeping berths (and mostly genuine ones at that in their case) because their target customer tends to be couples who just want more room, not families who try and cram people in.
I have a quoted 2 x doubles in my Autotrail with 2 travel seats, which is fine as:
1) The bed sizes are fairly generous for MH doubles but still smaller than a 'house' double so really a singles for comfort.
2) It is a good excuse to not be able to take 'guests' away. ("Love to, but sadly can only carry 2 people. Sorry" )

In fact, in the typical motorhome it is far more likely that if sufficient humans were carried to fill up the quoted sleeping berths that the vehicle would have exceeded the payload.

If the father was fully aware what happens to the human body when a vehicle comes to a sudden stop I don’t this would have happened. But sadly there is a lot of ignorance out there. I once had a passenger who for stupid reasons refused to wear a seatbelt, and wanted to sit in the back of my car with his girlfriend. I insisted he travelled in the front. I then switched of the passenger air bag, as an unsecured passenger being propelled towards an activated seatbelt poses greater risk for them. Unsecured rear passengers pose a serious risk to those in front of them in a road accident.

For all the new safety features fitted to modern vehicles, the humble seatbelt is head and shoulders the most effective at saving lives, I lost count at the amount of people who would have died had it not been for their seatbelts. Another safety feature not given much thought, is the head rest. Older vehicles used to come without them, particularly in the rear seats. I sadly witnessed several fatalities from broken necks due to the lack of a head rest. When I watch old movies with cars without head rests I actually feel queasy watching them. My own son would probably have died had it not been for the fact he was wearing a seatbelt. The bruising on his shoulder and dislocated arm was far better than being hurled through his windscreen on to the road.

Anyone who travels without a seatbelt are not only risking their lives, but if travelling in the rear are risking the lives of their fellow passengers.

As for trains and buses two wrongs don’t make a right. In my honest opinion all forms of public transport should provide seatbelts, where practical. Sadly on a recent bus journey to Perth were seatbelts are provided, hardly anyone bothered to put them on. But generally speaking due to the size and weight of larger vehicles you are safer inside them without a seatbelt, than in smaller vehicles.

 

[2cv]

When Bailey began producing motorhomes they did a series of crash tests. Initially seats collapsed and much furniture became missiles but they did improve things with modifications. Few manufacturers have done this.

 

[Fisherman]

It is probably more common than uncommon to see more "quoted" berths than travel seats in a motorhome. But TBH I see no problem in that as how often to people use the full quota of sleeping positions?
Not least as the Motorhome definition of a double bed is laughable. Sometimes a bed 3'9" wide is a double!

Autotrail as a manufacturer possibly the main one where there are usually only the two cab seats for travelling even when there are 4 or even 6 sleeping berths (and mostly genuine ones at that in their case) because their target customer tends to be couples who just want more room, not families who try and cram people in.
I have a quoted 2 x doubles in my Autotrail with 2 travel seats, which is fine as:
1) The bed sizes are fairly generous for MH doubles but still smaller than a 'house' double so really a singles for comfort.
2) It is a good excuse to to be able to take 'guests' away. ("Love to, but sadly can only carry 2 people. Sorry" )

In fact, in the typical motorhome it is far more likely that if sufficient humans were carried to fill up the quoted sleeping berths that the vehicle would have exceeded the payload.

I never said there was anything wrong with this other than it can lead to to many travelling in the vehicle. As for payload someone who would allow more passengers in a vehicle than it is registered for, is hardly likely to bother, or even be aware of payload. I have seen six in a Motorhome with only four seatbelts, but with one of the parents driving a car to the same destination as the Motorhome, nothing wrong with that.

 

[izwozral]

15 years ago Izzy was front ended by a doctor who was running late and speeding. He admitted this at the scene.
Izzy had a broken sternum, whiplash and bruising to her hands. Without a doubt the seat belt saved her from worse injuries or even death.
The fact that buses or trains tend not to have seat belts doesn't really come into it for me as I prefer not to travel with the great unwashed.

At the end of the day it's personal choice whether to carry passengers without belts or not.

Marie, there are some mega important things happening around the world that are not being reported on by the main stream media. We are fed a daily diet of celebrity sh1te, lies, gossip, just about anything of sufficient low importance so as not to inform the masses.
We can't allow people to think for themselves now can we?

 

[QFour]

That's assuming you are going fast enough to make unsecured weights an issue.

Its all about Kinetic Energy. A 75kg traveller hitting a solid object at 20mph will weigh approximately 300kg. So an unrestrained traveller is going to hit you very hard in the back or exit the vehicle through the front window.

 

[wildebus]

I'm all for responsible choices. But in reality, the chances are, I'd be giving you a lift

Out of interest, why would this be? Are you a Bus Driver or have a Taxi?

 

[Fisherman]

At the end of the day it's personal choice whether to carry passengers without belts or not.

Ral I really don’t know why anyone would travel without a seatbelt.

I mentioned on my “long winded” post about a passenger who refused to wear a seatbelt. His “logic” was based on the fact he was involved in two previous accidents whilst wearing a seatbelt, and he reckoned wearing one was unlucky.

I know unbelievable, and yes I pointed out he had survived both accidents relatively unhurt because he was wearing a seatbelt. You can take a horse to water.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

When Bailey began producing motorhomes they did a series of crash tests. Initially seats collapsed and much furniture became missiles but they did improve things with modifications. Few manufacturers have done this.

I just watched all five of the test crashes and I'd not want to be in any seat other than the forward-facing ones, but even that looks like a possible death sentence.

 

[RoaminRog]

At the end of the day, nobody can predict what is going to happen on a trip.
Nobody leaves home with the intention of having an accident, and nobody knows what’s around the corner.
If my granddaughter went flying out through the front windscreen, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.

 

[wildebus]

I'll throw in a link here for a customer of mine and their company that make amongst other seating Motorhome and Campervan seating ...
https://www.scotseats.co.uk/
Be worth checking out if looking for seating for a camper conversion.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Some good looking stuff there David, but even with those it's down to the way they are fitted to the chassis of the van, I think if I was to go with those seats I'd get them to fit them too.

 

[mark61]

I'll throw in a link here for a customer of mine and their company that make amongst other seating Motorhome and Campervan seating ...
https://www.scotseats.co.uk/
Be worth checking out if looking for seating for a camper conversion.

They look very good indeed.
Pleased to see Scopema have some competition in quality rock n roll style bed/seats.

 

[guerdeval]

Before we left the EU there was going to be a law where all seats for travel would have to have a simble on them, this did not happen as makers could not work together to sort out, now we are out it has been lost in the midst of time, and no i would not carry anyone in the back behind me witout belts,
Why because at 30mph a person or child becomes the weight of a baby elephant flying at you, you would have almost no mission of servival.
But i see folks all the time with folk/kids in the back of cars with no belts arriving at schools and out shopping, bonkers.

Half the kids in the UK already weigh the same as a baby elephant

 

[1 Cup]

Your all missing the point. Road were never designed for more than 40mph in the first place !

Canals and trains are designed to move cargo. And roads followed siut.

So this position of. I as a car driver gives you rights they / you don't . they were more lorries on our our A roads than cars, they are purposely designed to move goods.

You all aren't different to jenny foreigner. Now I'm here I'd do as I please.

You and yours are a bi product. Of a commercial world. Slow down and you should stay safe . But nowhere dose it say you will, live ! That's your projection.

Pay into a world / government and you think you have rights of law PERSONALLY !!!.

Road have always have tolls. Death is just one of them. Happy mother's day.

 

[Wully]

It’s not rocket science if there’s seat belts fitted use them. I’ve never liked the rear passenger seats in any motorhome I have owned or seen always looks a bit bodged even in the more expensive vans especially if you had a side impact nothing there but a thin sheet of aluminium and bolsa wood. Scary. Sad for that family nobody sets out no matter what thinking this could happen.

 

[trevskoda]

Some good looking stuff there David, but even with those it's down to the way they are fitted to the chassis of the van, I think if I was to go with those seats I'd get them to fit them too.

Only one van i know has a chassis, iveco, all other are monocock.