Replacing refillable lpg.

[jacquigem]

Our van has a refillable lpg system for cooking etc which is 14 years old. I understand that the cylinders should be recertified or changed.
Have been in touch with gaslow who say they don't do recertified anymore. Have put me in touch with their Spanish agents as we don't intend to return to UK and they want 1480 euro to effectively supply a new system .

So thinking of switching to "Spanish" gas system as cylinders can be exchanged easily pretty much anywhere.
Anyone done this ?
Any other advice welcome ?

 

[r4dent]

New Gaslow cylinders are about £200 and easy to install.

 

[jacquigem]

New Gaslow cylinders are about £200 and easy to install.

Interesting Gaslows Spanish agents quoted me 1480euros for bew cylinders and pipes.
Assume that price is in UK and not really wanting to go back.

 

[Geek]

The world should be a nicer place. There should be less inequality and hate.
You should have refillables recertified after ten years, but doing that won't fix the problems with the world, and not doing that won't break any laws.
Use your eyes. If the bottle isn't heavily rusted, the pipes are not perished, stop worrying.

 

[r4dent]

Interesting Gaslows Spanish agents quoted me 1480euros for bew cylinders and pipes.
Assume that price is in UK and not really wanting to go back.

Their website has prices for EU delivery.

I only investigated one retailer, others may be cheaper.
.

Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder 2 with Level Gauge

Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder 2 with Level Gauge – Compact & Reliable LPG Solution Perfect for Caravans, Motorhomes & Campervans The Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder is specially designed for campervans, motorhomes, and caravans, offering a safe, efficient, and long-lasting LPG...

www.gasproducts.co.uk

 

[jacquigem]

Their website has prices for EU delivery.

I only investigated one retailer, others may be cheaper.
.

Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder 2 with Level Gauge

Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder 2 with Level Gauge – Compact & Reliable LPG Solution Perfect for Caravans, Motorhomes & Campervans The Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder is specially designed for campervans, motorhomes, and caravans, offering a safe, efficient, and long-lasting LPG...

www.gasproducts.co.uk

View attachment 141243

That's helpful , thank you.

I note that they call it a cylinder 2 to be used with an existing cylinder, presumably to increase capacity ?
I would need 2 and there would be no existing cylinder, don't know if that would be a problem.

I now have a price for a similar Propane gas system which compares with the price above.

So I am thinking is it best to stick with lpg or switch to Propane.

Propane or Butane seems to be more readily available here in Spain and prices seem comparable so I am leaning that way.

Just wondering if there is anything I haven't considered ?

 

[Okta]

Pro

So I am thinking is it best to stick with lpg or switch to Propane.

Propane is a type of lpg, as is butane. Butane performs very badly in cold weather. Refillable systems use both, in the UK it will be pure propane in hot countries it may well be a mixture of propane and butane.

 

[r4dent]

That's helpful , thank you.

I note that they call it a cylinder 2 to be used with an existing cylinder, presumably to increase capacity ?
I would need 2 and there would be no existing cylinder, don't know if that would be a problem.

They also do cylinder 1 (slightly cheaper)

Gaslow R67 6kg Refillable Cylinder 1 with Level Gauge

Gaslow R67 6kg Refillable Cylinder 1 with Level Gauge – Compact & Reliable LPG Solution Perfect for Caravans, Motorhomes & Campervans The Gaslow R67 6kg Refillable Cylinder is specially designed for campervans, motorhomes, and caravans, offering a safe, efficient, and long-lasting LPG solution...

www.gasproducts.co.uk

 

[Nabsim]

That's helpful , thank you.

I note that they call it a cylinder 2 to be used with an existing cylinder, presumably to increase capacity ?
I would need 2 and there would be no existing cylinder, don't know if that would be a problem.

I now have a price for a similar Propane gas system which compares with the price above.

So I am thinking is it best to stick with lpg or switch to Propane.

Propane or Butane seems to be more readily available here in Spain and prices seem comparable so I am leaning that way.

Just wondering if there is anything I haven't considered ?

The difference between a number one and a number two cylinder is the fitting on the fill port on the cylinder. One is a tee and one is an elbow. Your existing cylinder will have these in already

 

[Geek]

Their website has prices for EU delivery.

I only investigated one retailer, others may be cheaper.
.

Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder 2 with Level Gauge

Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder 2 with Level Gauge – Compact & Reliable LPG Solution Perfect for Caravans, Motorhomes & Campervans The Gaslow R67 11kg Refillable Cylinder is specially designed for campervans, motorhomes, and caravans, offering a safe, efficient, and long-lasting LPG...

www.gasproducts.co.uk

That's interesting. The level gauge does seem to be a level gauge, rather than a useless pressure gauge, which only tells you the temperature of the contents..

What I'm not clear on is how much LPG it holds. It (as expected) says you only fill it to 80%.

Does that mean that at 80% full it has 11kg (22 litres) of LPG, like an exchange bottle has?
Or can it only be filled to 80% of its 22 litre capacity?

 

[Moped]

Our 11kg refillable bottle takes 22ltr which presumably is 80% of the total bottle volume. The bottle capacity should be the actual capacity of gas it can contain.

 

[Nabsim]

That's interesting. The level gauge does seem to be a level gauge, rather than a useless pressure gauge, which only tells you the temperature of the contents..

What I'm not clear on is how much LPG it holds. It (as expected) says you only fill it to 80%.

Does that mean that at 80% full it has 11kg (22 litres) of LPG, like an exchange bottle has?
Or can it only be filled to 80% of its 22 litre capacity?

The quantities stated on Gaslow and GasIt bottle is what they hold after allowing for the 80%, so a 6KG bottle takes 6Kg and 11Kg takes 11Kg of gas etc.

Underslung is different though, an underslung gives the capacity the cylinder will take at 100% full, you have to remember that when sizing them up

 

[boggie]

That's interesting. The level gauge does seem to be a level gauge, rather than a useless pressure gauge, which only tells you the temperature of the contents..

What I'm not clear on is how much LPG it holds. It (as expected) says you only fill it to 80%.

Does that mean that at 80% full it has 11kg (22 litres) of LPG, like an exchange bottle has?
Or can it only be filled to 80% of its 22 litre capacity?

My 11 kg refillable came with instructions to only fill to 15 ltr on first fill as empty cylinder needs air purged out. My label also said subsequent full at 80 % was 19.3 ltr. Never actually put that much in fill around once a month max was 12 ltd.
Hope that helps.

 

[Okta]

My 11 kg refillable came with instructions to only fill to 15 ltr on first fill as empty cylinder needs air purged out. My label also said subsequent full at 80 % was 19.3 ltr. Never actually put that much in fill around once a month max was 12 ltd.
Hope that helps.

This is because the air in the new cylinder only compresses but does not condense into a liquid and room must be left for the compressed air. Once the air has been purged and only lpg remains in the cylinder it is safe to use the full 80%.

 

[Moped]

For LPG (propane) 1kg = 1.96L.

For LPG (butane) 1kg = 1.724L.

For a pure Propane fill 2ltr per kg is a good approximation. The UK generally offers this.

However most of southern europe France Spain provide a mix of both which is why when we fill up in these countries we only get around 1.85ltr per kg. So our 11kg Gaslow bottle in Spain requires around 20ltr to fill compared to 22ltr in the UK.

Something to remember when outside the UK. It's not the bottles or system at fault if litre fills vary from empty. It is the type of gas you are filling with.

 

[Geek]

For LPG (propane) 1kg = 1.96L.

For LPG (butane) 1kg = 1.724L.

For a pure Propane fill 2ltr per kg is a good approximation. The UK generally offers this.

However most of southern europe France Spain provide a mix of both which is why when we fill up in these countries we only get around 1.85ltr per kg. So our 11kg Gaslow bottle in Spain requires around 20ltr to fill compared to 22ltr in the UK.

Something to remember when outside the UK. It's not the bottles or system at fault if litre fills vary from empty. It is the type of gas you are filling with.

You've got that the wrong way round.

Yes, butane is 0.601kg/l and propane is 0.498kg/l (at 15°c)

Replacement bottles are filled by weight, but refillable are filled by volume.

The bottle is a fixed volume. Let's assume it is rated at 11kg at 80% of propane. That means it has an effective volume of about 22 litres.

If you empty it, then refill it, the ullage valve (which all refillables have, but exchange bottles don't have) will cut off at 22 litres.

Doesn't matter whether it is 22 litres of propane, 22 litres of butane - or indeed 22 litres of any liquid you put in.

That 22 litres will weigh 11kg if it is propane, or about 12.8kg if it is butane.

The calorific value of propane is 13.99 kw/kg. The calorific value of butane is 13.64kw/kg.

So 11 kg of propane is 154 KWh and 12.8kg of butane is 174 KWh.*

If you buy calor bottles, notice that a 13kg butane bottle is the same size as an 11kg bottle of propane. That's why.

* For comparison, 11kg of lead acid battery usable charge is about 0.3KWh. 11kg of lithium battery usable charge is about 2KWh

 

[Robmac]

You've got that the wrong way round.

Yes, butane is 0.601kg/l and propane is 0.498kg/l (at 15°c)

Replacement bottles are filled by weight, but refillable are filled by volume.

The bottle is a fixed volume. Let's assume it is rated at 11kg at 80% of propane. That means it has an effective volume of about 22 litres.

If you empty it, then refill it, the ullage valve (which all refillables have, but exchange bottles don't have) will cut off at 22 litres.

Doesn't matter whether it is 22 litres of propane, 22 litres of butane - or indeed 22 litres of any liquid you put in.

That 22 litres will weigh 11kg if it is propane, or about 12.8kg if it is butane.

The calorific value of propane is 13.99 kw/kg. The calorific value of butane is 13.64kw/kg.

So 11 kg of propane is 154 KWh and 12.8kg of butane is 174 KWh.*

If you buy calor bottles, notice that a 13kg butane bottle is the same size as an 11kg bottle of propane. That's why.

* For comparison, 11kg of lead acid battery usable charge is about 0.3KWh. 11kg of lithium battery usable charge is about 2KWh

I was just about to say that myself!

 

[Geek]

Doesn't matter whether it is 22 litres of propane, 22 litres of butane - or indeed 22 litres of any liquid you put in.

22 litres of water would weigh 22kg, so you'd get more in.

However, with a calorific value of 0KWh/Kg, the results would be disappointing.